what new companies are offering preorders?

[coinpharmer]

I know many on this forum have been burnt by preorders, but I thinking thats about the only way to get a good $/gh ratio. I preordered from knc and was happy with what I got so I feel that there may be some others out there worth supporting.
Im looking for 20nm chip size or 28nm if I cant find a company likely to produce AND ship(lol) a 20nm. Im looking to spend about 10 btc.
thanks for your imput, if I cant find a good preorder situation, would it be a good idea to build a computer for scrypt mining? for 10 coins Im betting I could build a very nice unit but I dont know anything about that, Ive been a bitcoin purist and am only now thinking of branch out.

ps, im not too interested in a antminer, as popular as they currently are I dont see them keeping up with the difficulty curve with there watts/gh ratio. if I had gotten on board sooner, sure, but now?

[manicminer5]

I know many on this forum have been burnt by preorders, but I thinking thats about the only way to get a good $/gh ratio. I preordered from knc and was happy with what I got so I feel that there may be some others out there worth supporting.

It's the way to loose money. On 1 side you can have good $/GHs ratio at the time of order, on the other side at the time of shippment (probably late shippment) this ratio may (will) be obsolete.

[coinpharmer]

I know many on this forum have been burnt by preorders, but I thinking thats about the only way to get a good $/gh ratio. I preordered from knc and was happy with what I got so I feel that there may be some others out there worth supporting.

It's only way to loose money. On 1 side you can have good $/GHs ratio at the time of order, on the other side at the time of shippment (probably late shippment) this ratio may (will) be obsolete.

FUDSTER!  I made good money with my knc preorder thank you very much. I mean sure, many will cheat you such as bfl did, but I dont want to let a few bad apples ruin it when some companies have proven preorders are the only way to actually get big returns. I made several times my investment with a KNC preorder...

[Burninj]

You should take a look @ chinese manufacturers starting to flood market with dozens of petahashes of hashrate with cheap miners...

[coinpharmer]

You should take a look @ chinese maufacturers starting to flood market with dozens of petahashes of hashrate with cheap miners...

this is exactly why Im trying to stay away from the antminer, it LOOKS like a good deal, but I know that huge hashing power is likely to hit soon. this is what is edging me into the preorder area, the hope of beating the chip size. maybe I should just wait a few months though for the dust to settle though. the Chinese will force research and development of better technology if anyone else wants to stay competetive, and that was something i was hoping to help fund in return for a good miner in the future anyways..

Ive heard mixed things about scrypt asics, some people are saying the asics are not worth it to buy a asic because they are not much better than gpu setups, does anyone have any imput on this?

[dogie]

See the thread in my sig about trustworthiness, but generally the preorder market is dead.

[Gator-hex]

You're doomed on any pre-order when difficulty is rising 50% a month. Just a 1 month manufacturer delay can really kill your ROI plans!

[DarkKnight]

Ive heard mixed things about scrypt asics, some people are saying the asics are not worth it to buy a asic because they are not much better than gpu setups, does anyone have any imput on this?

Avg profit from multipools has dropped from a 30 day high of .0013BTC/MH/day to .00063BTC/MH/day, and it's still dropping. Hash rates and difficulties are going up, coin value is not. They are more or less cost equivalent with GPUs in terms of $/KH, but energy usage is obviously much lower. Space is the issue, as these alpha grade products are not the refined devices BTC miners are used to getting. Best to wait for the market and GS prices to stabilize before doing ROI calcs. Anyone jumping in today is just riding on faith that they will make their investment back.

[coinpharmer]

You're doomed on any pre-order when difficulty is rising 50% a month. Just a 1 month manufacturer delay can really kill your ROI plans!

thank you for this NEW information! as you may have noticed from previous posts, I have never seen this...

/sigh

does anyone bother reading before posting?

I understand many companies scammed people, hashfast, bfl, and many others. My personal experience with preorders however has been good. When I first bought a asic, it was a PREORDER from KNC, I did tons of research of all companies around that time, and considered and turned down bfl, hashfast, and all others in favor of knc because they were the only onesaccording to the research I did at the time, that was likely to follow through, and they did.

What Im looking for now is companies that are doing pre-orders that are new to the bitcoin mining industry. IF you dont know of any, or you only know of scams, just dont reply because YOU HAVE ZERO INFORMATION ON THE TOPIC. thanks =)

[coinpharmer]

Ive heard mixed things about scrypt asics, some people are saying the asics are not worth it to buy a asic because they are not much better than gpu setups, does anyone have any imput on this?

Avg profit from multipools has dropped from a 30 day high of .0013BTC/MH/day to .00063BTC/MH/day, and it's still dropping. Hash rates and difficulties are going up, coin value is not. They are more or less cost equivalent with GPUs in terms of $/KH, but energy usage is obviously much lower. Space is the issue, as these alpha grade products are not the refined devices BTC miners are used to getting. Best to wait for the market and GS prices to stabilize before doing ROI calcs. Anyone jumping in today is just riding on faith that they will make their investment back.

thanks for this detailed post.

for me, space is not a issue, I would be willing to give a 10x10 bedroom to the project, if a rig so large can be build with 10 btc.

cooling is not a problem, I have 2 large duct fans that each move 720 cubic feet of air per minute, and one smaller fan that moves 300 cubic feet per minute, that would be able to easily exchange the rooms air. I have 220 wired up to the outlets of this room so big appliances can be easily ran. I had hoped to get a neptune in there but I was not able to get funds lined up in time...

[DarkKnight]

thanks for this detailed post.

for me, space is not a issue, I would be willing to give a 10x10 bedroom to the project, if a rig so large can be build with 10 btc.

cooling is not a problem, I have 2 large duct fans that each move 720 cubic feet of air per minute, and one smaller fan that moves 300 cubic feet per minute, that would be able to easily exchange the rooms air. I have 220 wired up to the outlets of this room so big appliances can be easily ran. I had hoped to get a neptune in there but I was not able to get funds lined up in time...

You're welcome. To address what you said -- 220v is not going to help you with GPUs, and would not matter for ASICs. Each set of 10 ASICs as they are currently sold, running in lower power mode use 70 watts approx, plus accessories such as USB hub, router, or rpi. Assuming money wasn't an issue, you could run approx 25 sets of ten, or 250 units on a single 120v/15a bedroom circuit. Heat generation with at least 40 units is negligible as long as the room has decent airflow.

For reference I have 2 of my rigs (10 R9 280x) running in a 10x10 utility room, with an outside window. It can warm the room from 70-80 in less than 10 minutes with the cooling turned off. I have a fan in the window blowing outside air in 24x7 -- from 20*F to 70*F outside air. When it's 50*F and over, it's insufficient to keep the room below 80*F. At 80*F, my cards are pushing 80*Celsius, at which point I have them set to clock back to cool off. So, I have to keep the AC running in that room all day to offset the heat gain.

Although, as people are starting to discover now that the unseasonable cold, long winter is coming to a close in the US, that airflow is by itself, not enough. GPUs generate such heat that it's not enough to simply move the hot air around, you need *something* to pull it out of the house entirely. It's 50*F outside, and I'm running A/C units to keep the temp under control indoors. With Gridseeds, it's like running light bulbs. Not so hot if you have 1 or 2 (sets of 10), but 5-10 start to warm the room a little bit. This will be so much worse in the summer when instead of people's houses releasing heat all day, they are getting warmed up constantly.

The size requirements may not seem like much now, but when in a year people are hashing ten times faster with devices that use up 90% less space, you will be left with a lot of wasted space. The alt coin market in general is looking depressed. Gridseeds are still shipping and coming online like mad. I believe there will be a bit of a market shock in a month or so, when everyone's preorders come in and users get their bugs worked out. A lot of capacity is going to come on line, driving profits even lower, then the demand will fall out of the bottom of the ASICs when ROI is looking more like 10-12 months, if ever. When that happens, prices will adjust lower on them, and it will be a better time to get in. Just one miner's opinion.  

[BTCInvestorPro]

You're doomed on any pre-order when difficulty is rising 50% a month. Just a 1 month manufacturer delay can really kill your ROI plans!

thank you for this NEW information! as you may have noticed from previous posts, I have never seen this...

/sigh

does anyone bother reading before posting?

I understand many companies scammed people, hashfast, bfl, and many others. My personal experience with preorders however has been good. When I first bought a asic, it was a PREORDER from KNC, I did tons of research of all companies around that time, and considered and turned down bfl, hashfast, and all others in favor of knc because they were the only onesaccording to the research I did at the time, that was likely to follow through, and they did.

What Im looking for now is companies that are doing pre-orders that are new to the bitcoin mining industry. IF you dont know of any, or you only know of scams, just dont reply because YOU HAVE ZERO INFORMATION ON THE TOPIC. thanks =)

Bitmain has hinted that a follow on to their popular Antminer S1 is coming in the next few months if I were you I'd hold out for that. 

There seem to be a ton of Chinese 1Th/s clones coming out as well as some companies out of Europe that are making custom boards based on BitFury, Bitmine or Avalon chips but none of them are being sold at a price that is attractive even for immediate delivery and most of these aren't expected for another 30 days at least.  ASICMiner was also soliciting interest in their next generation stuff a few weeks back but no word on when they will accept orders or pricing.

If you want to take a huge gamble you could put in an order for "second gen" Hashfast or CoinTerra equipment which is really just their first gen chips with the bugs worked out of the PCB.  Hashfast is essentially a soft scam though and CoinTerra while they have been more honest in their dealings haven't exactly lived up to their predictions.

[coinpharmer]

You're doomed on any pre-order when difficulty is rising 50% a month. Just a 1 month manufacturer delay can really kill your ROI plans!

thank you for this NEW information! as you may have noticed from previous posts, I have never seen this...

/sigh

does anyone bother reading before posting?

I understand many companies scammed people, hashfast, bfl, and many others. My personal experience with preorders however has been good. When I first bought a asic, it was a PREORDER from KNC, I did tons of research of all companies around that time, and considered and turned down bfl, hashfast, and all others in favor of knc because they were the only onesaccording to the research I did at the time, that was likely to follow through, and they did.

What Im looking for now is companies that are doing pre-orders that are new to the bitcoin mining industry. IF you dont know of any, or you only know of scams, just dont reply because YOU HAVE ZERO INFORMATION ON THE TOPIC. thanks =)

Bitmain has hinted that a follow on to their popular Antminer S1 is coming in the next few months if I were you I'd hold out for that. 

There seem to be a ton of Chinese 1Th/s clones coming out as well as some companies out of Europe that are making custom boards based on BitFury, Bitmine or Avalon chips but none of them are being sold at a price that is attractive even for immediate delivery and most of these aren't expected for another 30 days at least.  ASICMiner was also soliciting interest in their next generation stuff a few weeks back but no word on when they will accept orders or pricing.

If you want to take a huge gamble you could put in an order for "second gen" Hashfast or CoinTerra equipment which is really just their first gen chips with the bugs worked out of the PCB.  Hashfast is essentially a soft scam though and CoinTerra while they have been more honest in their dealings haven't exactly lived up to their predictions.

excellent post, thanks for your opinions and tips.

I agree hashfast, and cointerra are no goes, to me they struck out with the track record they have of lies. Im going to continue looking, but for now it does seem like things are in between stages. I may be able to jump to a good thing in April though =)