Candidate for Ban appeal

[Steamtyme]

This user Norm Macdonald to the best of my knowledge has been banned for Plagiarism.

I believe it was for this post/topic. It has been understandably edited to remove the plagiarized content, so I can't be positive. I believe the copied content was somewhere along the lines of what the company was claiming their machine can do. I had minimal interaction with the user but I believe they generally were just trying top spread knowledge and participate in the mining section. From looking at their profile I do see they still log in and look around I imagine.

I can't be sure but I don't believe they ever wore a Sig or earned anything by posting here. I obviously don't have any behind the scenes info, and might be missing something.

I made this thread based on this suggestion.

~snip~
If you think that a ban should be ended, make your case in a new topic from a "good for the forum as a whole" perspective.

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[LoyceV]

I believe it was for this post/topic. It has been understandably edited to remove the plagiarized content, so I can't be positive.

This is the unedited raw post as it was first posted:

Code:

Norm MacDonald
2403358
49062838
<a href="https://bitcointalk.org/index.php#1">Bitcoin</a> / <a href="https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=81.0">Mining speculation</a> / <b><a href="https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5093468.msg49062838#msg49062838">40TH/80TH new Miners??? Swiss Miner</a></b>

<a class="ul" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2ShiLjvP4M&amp;t=0s&amp;fbclid=IwAR0Nt_sjgpoIwmJAe4V4eDlETIgRAZl5A4ELX6mXRofz3KDtKvQjkgvDFFs">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2ShiLjvP4M&amp;t=0s&amp;fbclid=IwAR0Nt_sjgpoIwmJAe4V4eDlETIgRAZl5A4ELX6mXRofz3KDtKvQjkgvDFFs</a><br /><br /><br /><br />Hmmm, if real, the numbers are excellent. Problem is...even on 7nm chips pulling 40TH at 1450 is way beyond what any of the &quot;seasoned manufacturers&quot; have achieved, let alone 80TH ( Oil Cooled Only ). I hope it does actually achieve these stats, but it will likely experience serious growing pains even if it&#039;s legitimate. Can these guys support it? How much will it be? When can it ship? Or..is this just another pre-sale pipe dream that will inevitably fall on it&#039;s face???&#65279;<br /><br />What say you???

In human readable format, this is the original post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2ShiLjvP4M&t=0s&fbclid=IwAR0Nt_sjgpoIwmJAe4V4eDlETIgRAZl5A4ELX6mXRofz3KDtKvQjkgvDFFs



Hmmm, if real, the numbers are excellent. Problem is...even on 7nm chips pulling 40TH at 1450 is way beyond what any of the "seasoned manufacturers" have achieved, let alone 80TH ( Oil Cooled Only ). I hope it does actually achieve these stats, but it will likely experience serious growing pains even if it's legitimate. Can these guys support it? How much will it be? When can it ship? Or..is this just another pre-sale pipe dream that will inevitably fall on it's face???

What say you???

I can't confirm plagiarism from this, it may have been edited later on.

[Steamtyme]

I read down a little more as I remembered the thread it appears it was a youtube comment.

I removed some of the irrelevant parts from both quotes below.

too bad Norm was auto-banned probably for plagiarism, the members on the mining board are very a few and you notice a missing person quite fast ~snip~

I think he may have been changling poster on the YouTube link.
As the post on YouTube was removed.
If he did not remove the changling post on YouTube someone did remove it.
That means changling was looking here and pulled his post.
Or someone here contacted changling and asked him to pull his post. ~snip~

In human readable format, this is the original post:

Thanks for that.

[Steamtyme]

Going to give this a bump. I must admit I'm unsure if I need to keep this continuously visible, or if I need to mention this to the mining board members who don't generally frequent here.

Or.

Is it enough that I've made my this thread and it will be reviewed. In the case of Norm Macdonald they are not a long standing member but I do believe it was a minor error in this case. They either copy pasted their response from youtube comments here not thinking there could be consequences. Or they plagiarised someone's youtube comment to the thread. If the latter than they did break the rules in such a manor that a ban of 30-60 days is sufficient and a 1 year -> permanent Sig ban is reasonable.


In the meantime I guess I'll try and draw attention to the thread, unless I receive a comment from the powers that be it's unnecessary and the thread creation was enough.

[mikeywith]

I saw what Norm did there, and here is the story from my side ( if it matters)

he out of good intention called out a scam company swiss miner and posted their ads video from youtube in this topic.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5093468.0


he then copied one of the comments from the YouTube video and pasted it , see phil's comment

I went to youtube and ask about getting one.

and unless you are changling of youtube you did wrong and could be banned

As you cut and pasted this comment without quotes

that comment from youtube was also deleted about the same time when frodocooper deleted that "Plagiarized content"

what do we know?

1-Norm could have been the same person who posted that comment on youtube ( very likely).
2- He forgot to quote it, but clear as day he wasn't intending to steal some else's words since he posted the source for the comment.

if he didn't post the link to that video  frodocooper would probably never realized that  "Plagiarized content"


i know that rules are rules and frodocooper is doing his job, which honestly he does quite perfectly,but we the miners community know that Norm wasn't a shitposter or someone who would simply copy-paste for the sake of it, he was a very good member, with many constructive posts, i am sure that most if not all members from the mining section would agree to that.

i was waiting for him to appeal for himself, but i do believe that he doesn't know much about the forum's ins and outs and he probably just gave up and left for good, i hope theymos will look into this issue with an open heart and mind.


Thanks Steamtyme for starting this topic.

[sidehack]

Seconded. Norm could be annoying sometimes but he was always pretty well-thought-out and participated well in discussions. Not a spammer or general idiot, and he was indeed calling out legitimate criticism over what is very likely a scam attempt. I'd suspect the plaigarism in question mostly comes down to an issue of formatting rather than some deliberate malfeasance.

I don't go too much farther than the Hardware and Mining Speculation forums, but his absence especially in the latter is noticeable.

Frodocooper does his work quickly and efficiently, but I've often thought he was too heavy-handed at times. We've butted heads before.

[philipma1957]

Well I know I pissed him off.
 It was not my intention.
 I normally don't bother with  doing posts that say someone copied another thread.

I kind of think he is the same guy as changling as the youtube info was removed.
Sometimes the internet sucks for communication. If you point out something it can get people bent out of shape. I am still stinging from the argument with kano over a pool thread that the op did one post and left it pretty much alone.

I can say I never did see any other problem with Norm MacDonald's other post's.

I can say his reaction in the thread to me pointing out the issue was angry and something like

"I don't care if I get banned"   note that is a paraphrasing of his comment on what I said.

Which was not what I thought was appropriate reaction, but that is why the internet sucks for communicating something is wrong or mistaken.

Since his posts have been removed Since Jan 5 it is hard to check my recollection.

these are his posts and he does not looked banned to me
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2403358;sa=showPosts

t

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2403358

[suchmoon]

these are his posts and he does not looked banned to me
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2403358;sa=showPosts

t

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2403358

He's definitely banned: https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Norm%20MacDonald

If you're looking at the Last Active date on the profile - it can be updated e.g. when the user logs in, and he can still log in but he can't post.

[philipma1957]

these are his posts and he does not looked banned to me
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2403358;sa=showPosts

t

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2403358

He's definitely banned: https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Norm%20MacDonald

If you're looking at the Last Active date on the profile - it can be updated e.g. when the user logs in, and he can still log in but he can't post.

Oh did not know. 

I Did not want him banned I wanted to warn him to clean his post up a bit.
Did not turn out very well.

[frodocooper]

Rules are rules. Anyone who breaks the rules of this forum will have to face the consequences. No exceptions.

Here is the rule relevant to Norm MacDonald's situation:

33. Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.[e]

[...]

33. This includes both copying parts or the entirety of other users' posts or threads and copying content from external sources (e.g. other websites) and passing it as your own.

Here is Merriam-Webster's definition for plagiarizing:

Definition of plagiarize

transitive verb

: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source

intransitive verb

: to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source

Norm MacDonald committed plagiarism when he copied Changling's YouTube comment without crediting it as his source.

Norm refused to acknowledge whether he and Changling were the same person. He instead directed a tirade at philipma1957 for calling him out on it. I therefore could not make a reasonable assumption that Norm did not steal and pass off the words of another as his own. I therefore made a request for Norm to be banned, and so he was.

[Steamtyme]

Thanks to all who ventured outside of the mining section to post here. I would say most of you had more direct interactions with Norm than I did, as My focus was elsewhere for a good part of December.

If it weren't for that damn, swiss miner thread I may have forgotten about them all together.

Either way this has nothing to do with their personality or level of rudeness in response to corrections. One would hope that given time people could learn to treat this place as a community rather than the blind faceless void of the internet where the users on the other side of the screen are of little consequence.

I appreciate what Phil was trying to do there, he's always been willing/able to assist/counsel in a lot of aspects; and deals with a lot of shit for it undeservedly so.

Frodocooper I appreciate you chiming in as well. I want to be sure that I am in no way trying to say you made an error in this decision. I often try to explain that the moderation in the mining section has improved for the better when looked at as a whole.

This appeal was in relation to an exchange I had with theymos. This brought my attention to the fact that there are apparently a varying degree of punishments available.

I placed the quote below. I've read theymos's posts regarding this and how this is generally cut and dry, if say they are sig spamming or just trying to earn from the forum.

There's been no policy change. redsn0w wasn't permanently banned due to several factors which made me think that permabanning him would be a net negative for the forum. Nobody is banned strictly because of "the rules"; it's always handled case-by-case, but almost always, plagiarists deserve to be permabanned.

If you think that a ban should be ended, make your case in a new topic from a "good for the forum as a whole" perspective.

[Steamtyme]

I'll give this 1 final bump, as I'm unsure if a response will be given when the decision is made either way.

I will assume that if any action is taken it will be seen on the profile page - displaying the Signature Ban time frame.

As was pointed out in this other ban appeal thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5114253.msg50115181#msg50115181