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Author Topic: Alternatives to the Internet for payment transfers  (Read 187 times)
Jet Cash
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March 07, 2019, 08:45:09 AM
 #1

This thread is intended to encourage beginners in the world of Bitcoin to think about the transfer of coins between wallets. At the moment, it is dependent on the current Internet, but that will change in the future. The recent transfer of a payment over the Lightning network using ham radio is an indication of this. In my early days in this forum, I suggested the use of ham radio for payments, and I was told that ham radio had no use case in the modern world, and it would never happen. Well it has arrived, and it is viable. Also, I believe that some mobile phone network providers are looking at providing coin exchange services that don't rely on the Internet.

So here is a chance for the more creative amongst you to earn some merits by discussing the methods I mentioned above, or maybe you can think of some new possibilities that may become possible in the future. Near field communications via embedded chips is one possibility that is being discussed widely.

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March 07, 2019, 09:46:45 AM
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I have been thinking about transfer of cryptocurrency or making payments using crptos with the help of mobile service providers just with the use of USSD codes (1)

1. One just creates an online account with the mobile service provider and when making payment or transferring to another online account, all you do is dial the USSD code, type in the amount of BTC you want to send plus the address and boom transaction made.
This will make service providers act like mini-banks or exchanges.

2. To perform a withdraw to fiat, all one has to do is go to the nearest registered "Mobile crypto agent" and request for withdrawal using USSD codes. The crypto is then transferred to the agent's account after which one is given fiat.
This could also work for online P2P exchanges with Escrow service like localbitcoins too

3. When depositing fiat, all one has to do is go to the nearest registered "Mobile crypto agent" and request for deposit using USSD codes. S/he then pays the agent and then crypto is sent to his account. This can also be done online through escrow service or P2P exchanges.

The method is totally independent of the internet except for the online option of using P2P exchanges and the other advantage is it would even make adoption quicker since a large portion of the world population owns mobile phones.

This would come with disadvantages though
- Getting these mobile service providers all over the world to act as crypto exchanges, crypto transfer services will be very challenging and if they do, they will start exploiting right away from fees
- The government will obviously take control of the transactions, taxes and every transaction will definitely be tracked... For people who like it private. this is really bad.
- The idea of decentralisation and blockchain will die along with this kind of method.

Basically, Blockchain is mostly dependent on the Internet.



(1) - USSD codes are probably old fashioned but they are still being used widely by mobile service providers

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March 07, 2019, 10:12:41 AM
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Just read now about ham radio on coindesk after read your post. Are you suggesting to go back again 100 years old technology? Where we have already latest technology here. We need to think about more advantage.

As Bitcoin_Arena already described about networks operator. Somehow it same like use of internet also. Eventually we need some network to make transaction. We can make transaction without internet like mobile banking or some others mobile payments. But sound look like centralized to me. And it would be difficult to convince network operators all over the worlds.

May be there will be something new but we don't when it will happen. May be something will discover more than advance from internet.

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March 07, 2019, 03:27:32 PM
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I had been thinking about how to transact bitcoin without either party having internet access. In the ham radio transaction, if I recall correctly one party transmitted over radio waves, and the second party then broadcast the transaction. Similarly in Bitcoin_Arena's example above (if I've understood it), the mobile service provider will need internet access on their end to send bitcoin once you've dialed in your USSD code.

The first solution I thought of was to delay broadcasting. I sign a transaction, and give it to you via SD card, bluetooth, NFC, LAN, phone call, radio, or any other means I like (Snail mail? Carrier pigeon?). You can then broadcast it as and when internet access is re-established. The obvious downside to this is you have to trust me not to just transfer all my coins out of that address before you can broadcast my transaction, rendering it useless. My next thought, then, had been to simply transfer entire wallets or private keys between individuals, but again, I can't see a solution to prevent me from simply copying the wallet or private key before I give it to you, and then quickly emptying it after our "trade". I've not put too much though in to it, but I was unable to come up to a solution to these problems which would allow two parties to exchange bitcoin without any internet connection whatsoever at the time.

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March 08, 2019, 03:44:53 AM
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This offline to online transaction flow diagram explains a method of offline crypto transactions better.



Source: https://cryptofuse.com/offline-transactions


It would also solve the doubt about, the trust issue @o_e_l_e_o listed above, they could overcome it buy building there own offline traceable blockchain which is linked with to original blockchain. That means, if you send some BTC offline into there device, it will act as a block storage and will print a same transaction in the original blockchain with no issue.

I think, this new tech about offline crypto transfer can just change the way crypto currencies are looked upon today. It would just crush the fact that "fiat is easy to use and does not need internet connection" and put most of the hussel about the crypto usage away from internet connectivity out of the game.
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March 08, 2019, 05:02:13 AM
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 #6

if you want a truly decentralized network independent of the internet then you first have to establish a network on a different spectrum and then be able to use it. right now in case of "ham radio" that you mentioned here, you are connecting to a centralized "server" and send your transaction to them and then that server sends your transaction to the bitcoin network that is nodes connecting to each other via the internet.

this is in no way decentralized in my opinion! the only way that this could be considered decentralized were if actual bitcoin nodes existed that had the ability to connect to each other using Radio Frequency and just like port (8333) on the internet we could set a frequency defined for bitcoin (maybe in ELF range) that they all use to communicate.

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