New sort of plagiarism

[Diamond Member]

~snip~
You are mistaken. The relevant portion of the definition of plagiarism is passing someone else's writing off as your own. These people are not passing off this writing as being published by someone else, they are passing it off as if they wrote it themselves. There needs to be something within the post disclosing it is not original content, or that it is translated content.

It is not new that people are using google translate to post in sections of languages they cannot speak/read/write, this happens frequently in forums with communities spanning multiple countries, but it is new for someone to copy content that is not their own and pass it off as their own after translating it.

I'm saying the truth.
Plagiarizing not same with translating.
For example, you translate a song lyrics to Chinese language, Is this action includes plagiarism? Of course not.
It's just translating.
Then you publish your translate that song lyrics to your blog, Is this plagiarism? No.

But, the action is doesn't right and totally violates the law and infringes copyright.
This forum requires an additional rule about how to post the translations.

I would refer you to Merriam Webster:

to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own

Nothing in any of the posts cited in the OP are claiming to be anything other than the authors original words. No additional rules are necessary.

[pandukelana2712]

-snip-
I would refer you to Merriam Webster:

to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own

Nothing in any of the posts cited in the OP are claiming to be anything other than the authors original words. No additional rules are necessary.

Thanks for referring.
But just quote half of definition.

The full definition is:

: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source

Btw, can I say you do plagiarism by "half" your definition?   

One more thing, tell me, how should I quote the words in http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/bitcoin-open-source?commentId=2003008%3AComment%3A52186, the first paragraph. Then post it on the forum

[philipma1957]

Because if he only translate it and post the translated text its not a plagiarism in my eyes !

That's correct if he uses his own words to redact the post. But if he use an automatic translator and post it as it is word by word then it is plagiarism.
It is just another trick to avoid getting caught.

You are misunderstanding what plagiarism is.

Even if the user was to rewrite it completely it would still be plagiarism. It is just harder to detect.

Also even google translate does better than translating word by word now. It doesn't make it any less plagiarism.

These people can be tagged/banned for plagiarism and/or using automated translation tools to gain visibility/activity/whatever.

rewrite it completely is not quite the same as translate it completely. I would think a rewrite makes it not plagiarism while an accurate translation makes it plagiarism.  A rewrite means  more change then a translation does.  But I suppose it is a matter of semantics.
 

[asche]

rewrite it completely is not quite the same as translate it completely. I would think a rewrite makes it not plagiarism while an accurate translation makes it plagiarism.  A rewrite means  more change then a translation does.  But I suppose it is a matter of semantics.

A proper translation IS rewriting.

Did you ever read a book that wasn't written in the authors language? Which name was on the cover? The translators?

Yes it is a matter of semantics, and you are wrong.

[bones261]

Quite frankly, the real reason we have this copy/paste rule is so we don't get inundated with bots/spammers/lazy signature slingers. It would be so easy for a bot to just copy content from the internet, google translate it, and then post the results here. Bitcointalk wants real conversations. I think if an account is caught doing a copy-paste-google translate-copy paste routine, they should be banned if they don't include references of some sort.

[r1s2g3]

It is not new and also it not limited to the Russian translation only. I found somebody google translated the Portuguese to English.
I think you guys might be surprised to know that some of the comments/articles were copied from here to other sites . (Don.t know how to report them , I remember they were published in Medium)

[o_e_l_e_o]

I'll use this thread to appeal for help to bust this guy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1153977

He's part of the Stake.com army of spammers. I got him a week long ban about 10 days ago for flooding various boards with one line spam. Now he's back with Google Translated spamming. He posts frequently in the Spanish local section, so I can only assume the source material he is stealing is in Spanish. It's fairly obvious by the speed at which he is making new posts, the poor English and grammar, and the usually telltale mistranslations, such as when he translated book titles:

"A random walk by Wall Streeth"

A Random Walk Down Wall Sreet

"The small book that still beats the market"

The Little Book That Still Beats the Market

However, try as I might, I can't find a source to report him. Perhaps a native Spanish speaker may be able to help? Or a mod could just ban him anyway for nonsense spamming?

[pandukelana2712]

I'll use this thread to appeal for help to bust this guy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1153977

He's part of the Stake.com army of spammers. I got him a week long ban about 10 days ago for flooding various boards with one line spam. Now he's back with Google Translated spamming. He posts frequently in the Spanish local section, so I can only assume the source material he is stealing is in Spanish. It's fairly obvious by the speed at which he is making new posts, the poor English and grammar, and the usually telltale mistranslations, such as when he translated book titles:

"A random walk by Wall Streeth"

A Random Walk Down Wall Sreet

"The small book that still beats the market"

The Little Book That Still Beats the Market

However, try as I might, I can't find a source to report him. Perhaps a native Spanish speaker may be able to help? Or a mod could just ban him anyway for nonsense spamming?

That user violated several forum rules:

-snip-
27. Using automatic translation tools to post translated content on local boards is not allowed.

33. Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.[e]
33 [e]. This includes copying part or all of the posts or threads of other users and copying content from external sources (eg other websites) and forwarding it as your own.

The rule is clear enough.
And IMO that's enough for the mod to ban that guy.

[o_e_l_e_o]

And IMO that's enough for the mod to ban that guy.

Yeah, that's the point I'm making. I'm very confident he has broken those rules, and his posts are auto-translated from (probably) a Spanish source. After reporting many, many other users for the same thing, it becomes fairly obvious after a while. But unless someone can definitively find one of those sources, then we don't have any hard proof on which to issue a ban.

[Foxe]

The owner of the article has the right to copyright. We can say that there is a literary theft. As for the translation from one language to another, I think the source should be placed on the publisher only.

[pandukelana2712]

Yeah, that's the point I'm making. I'm very confident he has broken those rules, and his posts are auto-translated from (probably) a Spanish source. After reporting many, many other users for the same thing, it becomes fairly obvious after a while. But unless someone can definitively find one of those sources, then we don't have any hard proof on which to issue a ban.

"A Random Walk Down Wall Street" book can be read at:
http://site.iugaza.edu.ps/wdaya/files/2013/03/A-Random-Walk-Down-Wall-Street.pdf
On page-4, you will see this:

Copyright © 1999, 1996, 1990, 1985, 1981, 1975,
1973
by W. W. Norton & Company, Inc.
All rights reserved
Printed in the United States of America

"The Little Book That Still Beats the Market" book can be read at:
http://www.poslovni.hr/media/PostAttachments/1203672/Joel%20Greenblatt%20-%20The%20Little%20Book%20That%20Beats%20the%20Market.pdf
Check on page 6, you will see the copyright of that book.

About the "copyright limitations and exceptions", you can read on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#Limitations_and_exceptions

You can report the plagiarism with that prove.

[o_e_l_e_o]

You can report the plagiarism with that prove.

I only included the titles of the books as examples of making it obvious he is using an auto-translating tool. If you can prove that he has plagiarized from either of those books, then yes, please report it and get him banned. I don't think he has however, or at least, not from the English versions. He may well have from the Spanish versions, but I don't speak a word of Spanish and reverse translating from his garbled English won't get me back to exactly the same as the original. Hence my appeal for a native Spanish speaker.

[Diamond Member]

That user violated several forum rules:

-snip-
27. Using automatic translation tools to post translated content on local boards is not allowed.

33. Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.[e]
33 [e]. This includes copying part or all of the posts or threads of other users and copying content from external sources (eg other websites) and forwarding it as your own.

The rule is clear enough.
And IMO that's enough for the mod to ban that guy.

Most frequently, in most forums, mods will give forum members many warnings before handing out bans, especially permanent bans unless they are doing something especially damaging or egregious (such as spreading malware, or unfortunately seems to be a problem here, plagiarism).

You can send him a PM if you have concerns about him using automatic translations with a source that it is against the rules, and if you continue seeing him do this, you can complain about him.

Neither of the cited posts are plagiarism, at least not the portions of which he is talking about those books because he is at least making an attempt to cite the author as the source. If there is another writing not by the author that makes similar comments, it would be plagiarism.

It is possible he took his 10 day ban as a warning to put more effort into his posts.

[lobcmt2]

For Diamond Member,
There are so many Warnings. Forum rules, guides, and lots of Ban Appeals in Meta board. I don't think we need personal warnings for such things that repeatedly asked and answered in the forum. Users should spend their time to read them. If they don't spend time to read them, learn from them, they should not complain when someday perma-bans dropped on them. If they are lazy and want to learn with their own stories, let they do and get what they want. It's fair.