What do you think about the "Iceberg Order"(or the hidden order)

[vit05]

Such orders are either not displayed on the order book at all, or not with the complete size

The large single order would be divided into smaller orders, with only a tiny portion of the total amount being seen on the order book. Accordingly, the deal would be executed progressively without tipping off the market and causing the trader a high impact cost.

Iceberg orders Kucoin

Kucoin and other exchanges are deploying the possibility of using such orders. It is a type of order that can be considered exactly the opposite of "ghost walls". This was already practiced by many people using Bot. That is, constantly buying and selling small volumes at a certain price rather than placing a large volume buy or sale order on the book. Thus avoiding a sharp change in prices.

What do you think about this?

[1713853270]

1713853270

[Hamphser]

Kucoin and other exchanges are deploying the possibility of using such orders. It is a type of order that can be considered exactly the opposite of "ghost walls". This was already practiced by many people using Bot. That is, constantly buying and selling small volumes at a certain price rather than placing a large volume buy or sale order on the book. Thus avoiding a sharp change in prices.

What do you think about this?

Iceberg Order/Ghost walls/Hidden orders - These things do have some advantages to avoid market reactions but it would be much preferred if these orders are visible.IMHO

Only a few exchange do have this feature but for those who have none we can actually see fake walls rather than to those who have hidden ones.

[joniboini]

I hate them. I think it shows that an exchange lacks transparency because they hide some orders, which can be interpreted as market manipulation. I think they should show all orders on the market, thus every traders can use that information to decide when and how they enter or exit the market.

I've been using some exchanges with hidden order like this and I can say for sure that they're not really good. Sometimes market price is better than what I've thought, which makes an opportunity to gain more profits slipped from me.

[hugeblack]

What do you think about this?

These platforms are trying to be like banks when trying to steal money from customers.
It is better to have a fluctuation in price *because of a sudden sell-off order* than a price manipulation under the table.
I did not understand the purpose of this particular strategy but their excuse was not enough for me.
The market is ahead of a lot of transparency We do not see more manipulation groups.

[BitHodler]

I remember watching Bitfinex's order book live for like an hour during the first major correct in January of 2018. Massive dumps in the range of 1000-5000BTC were absorbed without there being a bid wall at all.

I really believed it was Bitfinex being shady to keep the price up, but it seems that the dumps were absorbed by hidden bid walls. It's a pretty neat feature looking at how it works right now.

The thing is that order books are always subject to manipulation. It's either full of fake walls that have been stacked up to mislead people, or it's near empty to mislead people. Large players are better off using OTC desks.

[icalical]

Well, I am not sure if this kind of practice is categorized as a price manipulation, but it clearly shows that the exchange is not transparent to its client. Traders already sick of seeing bots placing a fake order and walls, and then suddenly cancel the orders right before it got executed. And then now we have hidden order, I have not seen, or at least I never recognize any hidden order, but if I know exactly an exchange doing that, I will definitely leave that exchange.

[Beerwizzard]

Emm, I'm sure that if you are using this particular exchange then you should deserve a chance to see the current market status before placing an order.
Those exchanges are struggling to keep their users. Such market tipping is peculiar to markets with low volume. So it seems like Kucoin is trying to make their users trade nearly dead shitcoins instead of simply delisting them.

[buwaytress]

I remember watching Bitfinex's order book live for like an hour during the first major correct in January of 2018. Massive dumps in the range of 1000-5000BTC were absorbed without there being a bid wall at all.

I really believed it was Bitfinex being shady to keep the price up, but it seems that the dumps were absorbed by hidden bid walls. It's a pretty neat feature looking at how it works right now.

The thing is that order books are always subject to manipulation. It's either full of fake walls that have been stacked up to mislead people, or it's near empty to mislead people. Large players are better off using OTC desks.

It's what I keep telling people too. If you aren't reliant on outright speculation and you just can't or don't want to worry about manipulation, then just go sell and buy OTC. I mean, if you're not already sinking hours into watching those books then leaving offers on localbitcoins is going to more than satisfy average Bitcoin traders.

I get that using an exchange is hassle free. But I like the additional hassle of p2p maybe.

[BitBustah]

If people don't feel right about these ghost orders they are free to move to another exchange that only shows public orders. 

I personally think it is a shady thing to do, hiding orders is ripe with manipulation.  I'd much rather have everything be out in the open.

[palle11]

Smiles... I can see some guys not wanting some scary movie played on them. But I think those ghost orders or what not they called are why we should be careful with market. Are they not what the manipulations are and the influence that the whales have on the market, maybe cumulating into market sentiment.

Of course, these things happen even in forex, where banks are ready to make huge buys at a particular point with requisite knowledge that independent traders are going to go the other way  causing huge losses to traders . Or spontaneous news that is either impromptu and arranged by inner caucus.

[gantez]

I don't have a problem with that. In my conscious mind, anytime I want to place an order, I do think that other people too are doing so and I believe some we be against my order, so I usually take a risk I can bear. I think that is a reasonable way to trade.

[vit05]

I remember watching Bitfinex's order book live for like an hour during the first major correct in January of 2018. Massive dumps in the range of 1000-5000BTC were absorbed without there being a bid wall at all.

I really believed it was Bitfinex being shady to keep the price up, but it seems that the dumps were absorbed by hidden bid walls. It's a pretty neat feature looking at how it works right now.

The thing is that order books are always subject to manipulation. It's either full of fake walls that have been stacked up to mislead people, or it's near empty to mislead people. Large players are better off using OTC desks.

OTC is definitely much more predictable about prices than using traditional books. But books are still needed to get an idea of the direction price can take. Looking at the price movement in the books, this option to send a Ghost order can help as a counterpoint to fake walls.

[figmentofmyass]

If people don't feel right about these ghost orders they are free to move to another exchange that only shows public orders. 

I personally think it is a shady thing to do, hiding orders is ripe with manipulation.  I'd much rather have everything be out in the open.

previously, iceberg algorithms were just done with bots via the API. allowing advanced order types like this just brings these superior features to regular traders like us. it can't hurt. i think okcoin was one of the first to offer iceberg orders right in the trading interface a few years ago.

i also don't think it's manipulative. nothing obligates anyone to put all their money on the order book. if you want to buy/sell large amounts, it's best not to announce your presence to the market. that's fair enough IMO. people playing games by flashing walls on the order book and removing them are much more manipulative.

[dothebeats]

I think the removal of such walls is perfectly fine, although silently letting these orders out into the open without anyone taking a hint of what's happening is not good IMO. It's like allowing shady trades to occur/happen in a platform and exchanges themselves might use this in order to create fake volume. Idk but there's something eerily wrong with this IMO that it's best for exchanges to be transparent in order to not fool their peers and their traders. Instead of helping the market, it only creates an avenue to an exchange for nefarious activities.

[Kakmakr]

It will just add more fuel to the fire for people like this, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5123994.msg50305043#msg50305043 who claims that more than 95% of trading volume are fake or manipulated.

A trading platform should not manipulate any trading data or transaction volumes <like what was done with Mt Gox> to give people legitimate data to base their investment decision on. <It is simply unethical and shady business practices> 

A lot of Japanese exchanges faked their transaction volumes to attract more traders to their platform and they got exposed and the regulators had to step in to regulate these exchanges.