All-male military draft deemed unconstituional (USA)

[squatz1]

I think with all the other news that has been in the cycle, a good deal of us missed this pretty large ruling that was going to have to come in this day and age. I don't think if it it will ever have to be put into effect, though it is VERY interesting.

WOMEN WILL NOW BE INCLUDED IN THE MILITARY DRAFT IN THE USA

I know this had been fought on on both political sides to say that there wasn't full equality in the USA. Conservatives pointed to it as  saying that some women only want to reap the rewards of equality, but don't want to reap the consequences. While this was out of their control, I highly doubt anyone truly does want to be drafted for the US military. Progressives pointed to this fact in statating that if there is true equality women and men will be included in the military system (as they are now currently allowed in combat roles, though up to now they weren't included in the draft)

I do think that the reason this didn't hit the news cycle was that it will most likely never be used, I highly DOUBT there will ever be a draft in the United States ever again. Most wars are going to be fought through defense contractors (practically mercenaries, but paid by the US government), crazy tech (drones, robots, etc)

The judge even stated in his ruling such

Yes, to some extent this is symbolic, but it does have some real-world impact," said Marc Angelucci, the lawyer for the men challenging the draft. "Either they need to get rid of the draft registration, or they need to require women to do the same thing that men do.

Government Contractors being used in wars are pretty interesting, and I think it's supported by both sides. As politicians can say that they're bringing US troops home and don't have to talk about the private guys they have their fighting for them. Crazy concept, amazing politically, but it really hides stuff from the American people. Maybe I'll write a little topic on it, don't know if people would be interested.

Thoughts on this though? (Self moderated just to remove sig spam, I would NEVER silence any opposing argument)

[Diamond Member]

I believe this was only a district court judge that made this ruling, who is not even an appellate judge. Ultimately the US Supreme Court is who can make the final decision on the constitutionality of the draft.

I agree we will probably not see a draft again, because modern wars are fought more efficiently in terms of manpower, and "boots on the ground" than either of the World Wars or Vietnam.

One could even say that Wars are no longer fought with guns and bombs anymore, but rather with economic weapons such as Sanctions, and cyber warfare such as hacking an enemies power grid and military networks. 

[_Miracle]

The draft is unconstitutional.

[Vod]

WOMEN WILL NOW BE INCLUDED IN THE MILITARY DRAFT IN THE USA

When I was in the military, we were told women were not drafted because of the chivalrous nature of men.  If a soldier falls, you need to continue the advance, not stop and help (her).

[Beerwizzard]

So what if the general position of the American establishment and community (mostly in face of young progressive liberals)?
Is military service a thing that is made by men to get rid of their aggressive masculinity or they require equality in rights to kill (or being killed by) muslims in the middle east?

[squatz1]

The draft is unconstitutional.

I mean you can debate that here all you want, but the courts seem to think otherwise. Though even if IT IS -- it most likely will never be used again, so I think we're good!

WOMEN WILL NOW BE INCLUDED IN THE MILITARY DRAFT IN THE USA

When I was in the military, we were told women were not drafted because of the chivalrous nature of men.  If a soldier falls, you need to continue the advance, not stop and help (her).

I don't know if this was a joke, but --hm? Didn't know you were in the army Vod.

So what if the general position of the American establishment and community (mostly in face of young progressive liberals)?
Is military service a thing that is made by men to get rid of their aggressive masculinity or they require equality in rights to kill (or being killed by) muslims in the middle east?

No clue what the hell you're trying to say here.

[_Miracle]

The draft is unconstitutional.

I mean you can debate that here all you want, but the courts seem to think otherwise. Though even if IT IS -- it most likely will never be used again, so I think we're good!

I'm not going to spend too much time debating it here, it is one of those issues I'd be prepared to mobilize for.

National Guard woman are already required to register but that's an entirely different thing.
Personally I would prefer that all citizens have a certain amount of ability to defend our country but to send a person into war who is in no way prepared to fight
(and kill) is...
counter productive for a fighting unit, against my ideal of liberty in a free society and has the potential to ruin the mind of a perfectly decent human which is a strike against humanity.

[Balthazar]

The draft is unconstitutional.

Just to be honest, this draft isn't the only unconstitutional thing in the modern US political system.

[criptix]

The draft is unconstitutional.

I mean you can debate that here all you want, but the courts seem to think otherwise. Though even if IT IS -- it most likely will never be used again, so I think we're good!

WOMEN WILL NOW BE INCLUDED IN THE MILITARY DRAFT IN THE USA

When I was in the military, we were told women were not drafted because of the chivalrous nature of men.  If a soldier falls, you need to continue the advance, not stop and help (her).

I don't know if this was a joke, but --hm? Didn't know you were in the army Vod.

Its actually the biological nature of men - similar to why everyone thinks babies are cute.

[mOgliE]

Its actually the biological nature of men - similar to why everyone thinks babies are cute.

Anyone talking about biological nature of anyone is a complete and utter moron.


And it's cool to see equality on all parts of a country. Draft is shit but all genders draft is better than male draft.

[TECSHARE]

Its actually the biological nature of men - similar to why everyone thinks babies are cute.

Anyone talking about biological nature of anyone is a complete and utter moron.


And it's cool to see equality on all parts of a country. Draft is shit but all genders draft is better than male draft.

Everyone knows biology has zero effect whatsoever on people right? xD

[Diamond Member]

The draft is unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with your statement. They have upheld the constitutionality of the draft many times in the 1900's during each of the major wars the draft was used.  

Under what basis do you believe the draft is not constitutional?

[_Miracle]

The draft is unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with your statement. They have upheld the constitutionality of the draft many times in the 1900's during each of the major wars the draft was used.  

Under what basis do you believe the draft is not constitutional?

Under the basis that it has the potential effect of depriving its citizen of their unalienable rights to
Life
Liberty
and it puts a serious damper on the pursuit of happiness
before you attempt to educate me with endless links to all the times the court has upheld the draft's constitutionality: I'm only interested in the one where they finally get it right.

And to be clear: I respect soldiers who have and who will ever enlist to defend their country with an added measure of gratitude for those who defend mine.

[criptix]

Its actually the biological nature of men - similar to why everyone thinks babies are cute.

Anyone talking about biological nature of anyone is a complete and utter moron.

Its like saying only females can get pregnant.

Its a biological fact.

Men are inclined by nature to protect and do courtship around woman to have their genes survive in the next generation.

I dont think thats moronic but just how evolution made men (at least most men, exceptions always exist i guess)

[criptix]

Btw. Regarding government contractors or mercenaries fighting in a war, that was pretty common in the past.

We are just discovering what worked to some extent in the past several millenia.

[merchantofzeny]

Btw. Regarding government contractors or mercenaries fighting in a war, that was pretty common in the past.

We are just discovering what worked to some extent in the past several millenia.

Problem with contractors is that you can't be entirely sure of their loyalty. Look at Renaissance Italy. Mercenaries kept wars going by not completely destroying each other. In some cases when there's actually no trouble, they'd either start it or outright extort the city-state like what happened to Siena.

Of course no single mercenary group these days would be able to hold an entire country hostage but they would want existing wars to keep going.

WOMEN WILL NOW BE INCLUDED IN THE MILITARY DRAFT IN THE USA

When I was in the military, we were told women were not drafted because of the chivalrous nature of men.  If a soldier falls, you need to continue the advance, not stop and help (her).

They want equality let them have it. Men get called out as "sexist" for acting courteously/chivalrously towards women anyway. Maybe put the women in an all female squad?

[squatz1]

Btw. Regarding government contractors or mercenaries fighting in a war, that was pretty common in the past.

We are just discovering what worked to some extent in the past several millenia.

Oh yeah I'm not saying it's not common or anything, though people forget that while US troops may not be in a certain area in the world (or are moving US troops out of certain areas) US mercenaries are in all of the other places (and are kept in the places the US is leaving.

It's a way to please the people while saying that the troops are leaving, while the US presence NEVER really leaves.

[philipma1957]

The draft is unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with your statement. They have upheld the constitutionality of the draft many times in the 1900's during each of the major wars the draft was used.  

Under what basis do you believe the draft is not constitutional?

Under the basis that it has the potential effect of depriving its citizen of their unalienable rights to
Life
Liberty
and it puts a serious damper on the pursuit of happiness
before you attempt to educate me with endless links to all the times the court has upheld the draft's constitutionality: I'm only interested in the one where they finally get it right.

And to be clear: I respect soldiers who have and who will ever enlist to defend their country with an added measure of gratitude for those who defend mine.

Life , Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Interesting set of ideas.

But they are in the Declaration of Independence not the constitution.

[_Miracle]

The draft is unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with your statement. They have upheld the constitutionality of the draft many times in the 1900's during each of the major wars the draft was used.  

Under what basis do you believe the draft is not constitutional?

Under the basis that it has the potential effect of depriving its citizen of their unalienable rights to
Life
Liberty
and it puts a serious damper on the pursuit of happiness
before you attempt to educate me with endless links to all the times the court has upheld the draft's constitutionality: I'm only interested in the one where they finally get it right.

And to be clear: I respect soldiers who have and who will ever enlist to defend their country with an added measure of gratitude for those who defend mine.

Life , Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Interesting set of ideas.

But they are in the Declaration of Independence not the constitution.

I used to have a beautifully framed set of The Articles of Freedom hanging on my wall: I'm aware.
Also of the debates our founding fathers had about freedom, who should have it and so on.

*Charters of Freedom