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Author Topic: [FLAGGED] [scam] BetKing.io broke ICO promise and dropped token value 99%  (Read 2705 times)
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March 23, 2019, 06:13:26 PM
 #81

I would like to apologize to BillyBurns (and Dean) for accusing them of being the same person. I believe I was incorrect, and was wrong to be so rash, and should have talked to them in private before I posted. I was also incorrect in how I analyzed the timezones: I made the mistake of believing the bet timestamp was in UTC but it was actually in local time. Therefor they are in clearly different timezones.

Thanks

Now if we could only settle the other points with a civil discussion without having to resort to attacks and assumptions made or get everything mixed in with these other trolls on the forum.
There's 3 other things you have accused me of unfairly. Open to discussing on skype or pm
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March 23, 2019, 06:31:44 PM
Last edit: March 23, 2019, 07:43:47 PM by JollyGood
 #82

The "you didn't lose money if you didn't sell" narrative doesn't add up, tho. Your coins are always worth their face value, and if that value is down 99%, you lost 99% of your "investment" (maybe not permanently, though).

When a dictator takes steps unilaterally to divert away from an ICO promise of fixed rate token values for buy-backs and says it was done with consensus when clearly it was not unanimous AND does not allow investors/BKB token holders to have a choice between either swapping BKB for BKT or asking for the buy-backs if refusing the swap - then something is clearly wrong.

- Scammer Dean Nolan tried to dupe RHavar out of $1 million

- Scammer Dean Nolan used unlicenced software rather than pay 2 BTC fee to the licence holder

- Scammer Dean Nolan refused to pay 20 BTC +EV to winners of the 2018 betking Christmas Wager

- Scammer Dean Nolan never released accounts nor allowed audits of betking ICO funds. We just have his word (which is fairly useless) that he used 50% of the ICO funds for "marketing, promotions, seo, design, development, server costs and legal" and that he used 50% of the ICO funds for bankroll - right  Roll Eyes

- Scammer Dean Nolan claims he used 600 BTC from the 2017 ICO bankroll funds to purchase BKB token buy-backs but fails to declare how many BKB were purchased-back and how many of BKB were his personal ones

- Scammer Dean Nolan made it clear in the 2017 ICO promotion 70 million BKB were for crowdsale and he would keep 30 million tokens for "ICO bounties, testing bounties, advisors, hiring, future marketing and development" but he also took profit on those 30 million BKB tokens thus diluting the profits of the 70 million BKB token holders

- Scammer Dean Nolan stated as per condition of 2017 ICO that all funds would be held in cold storage but never provided any mechanism to check and verify this

- Scammer Dean Nolan stated as per condition of the 2017 ICO "A percentage of profit made from bankrolled games will be used to buy back betking bankroll tokens from holders. All profits made on bankrolled games will be audited and made available to token holders as was done in the past with the crowdfunded bankroll profits. Bankrolled games are games where a player plays against the house such as blackjack and other games as well as 3rd party partner casino games. Player vs player games such as poker are not" - where did alleged 600 BTC of bankroll funds come in to the equation. That was the ruse, the scam to sell off his own BKB tokens

- Scammer Dean Nolan wrote: "The token price was $0.09286 after the ICO. The token value is calculated as $0.09286 + ((total bankroll profit of eth, btc, ltc in $ at current exchange price) / 100,000,000) Which is now $0.0966. A profit of $0.00374 per token": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2150057.msg25690525#msg25690525

The value of BKB held by LoyceV should have been 7278 BKB x $0.09286 (+profits) = $675.84 minimum flat rate without any profits to take in to consideration.

If the site made no profit betking should guarantee a buy-back of BKB at $0.09286 as per scammer Dean Nolan personally guaranteeing he would cover it even if BTC dropped to $1

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March 23, 2019, 06:40:14 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #83

People have lost the value of what people  think betking is worth but no I don't think they lost any money until the site is closed down.

Bizarre. People who did sell tokens and actually lost money apparently don't count (because they voluntarily sold, or something). And people who haven't sold, still haven't lost any money (despite them would if the ever needed to)?

So basically, you're saying the only way token-holders can lose money is if the site closes down?


I don't think there's a way to have a productive discussion with someone who argues that "not a single person lost any money" on a token that nose-dived ~99%.


Quote
For example I invested in both Betking and Bitdice Ico, despite how bad everyone thinks betking has performed bitdice aint doing all that great either, token price 0.025 my dividend payments might have made me like 1 eth in over a year despite investment being much larger than 1eth, and I think a lot of people were able to get 40% of their investment back from betking if they did buyback ( I never did a buyback) if I sold my bitdice tokens and added in dividends I woudn't even be at 40% of my investment back.

This really seems like misdirection. No one is attacking Dean for being a bad investment, they're attacking it for repeatedly lying and dishonest. The simple undeniable truth is Dean used his personal reputation to create and back BKB to give him personal exposure to bitcoin. He repeatedly sold it as an instrument to protect against bitcoin price going down (up until including shortly before he cancelled the promise, trying several times to pitch it to me knowing I'm stupidly heavily into btc). He milked it all the way when bitcoin price was doing well, and literally the second things turned around he renegs. To the best of my knowledge, he sold ~6.5M dollars worth of BKB, not bought a *single* one back at above the ICO price  (and claimed to have hit something like 70% buybacks or something?).

I think the only thing left to do is play with semantics ("you haven't lost unless you sell!") "It's not Dean's problem if you sell at a loss" and "he's not a scammer because he wasn't intending on scamming! He only did it cause it was profitable. But to be a scammer, that has to have been your intention".
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March 23, 2019, 06:46:30 PM
 #84

People have lost the value of what people  think betking is worth but no I don't think they lost any money until the site is closed down.

Bizarre. People who did sell tokens and actually lost money apparently don't count (because they voluntarily sold, or something). And people who haven't sold, still haven't lost any money (despite them would if the ever needed to)?

So basically, you're saying the only way token-holders can lose money is if the site closes down?


I don't think there's a way to have a productive discussion with someone who argues that "not a single person lost any money" on a token that nose-dived ~99%.


Quote
For example I invested in both Betking and Bitdice Ico, despite how bad everyone thinks betking has performed bitdice aint doing all that great either, token price 0.025 my dividend payments might have made me like 1 eth in over a year despite investment being much larger than 1eth, and I think a lot of people were able to get 40% of their investment back from betking if they did buyback ( I never did a buyback) if I sold my bitdice tokens and added in dividends I woudn't even be at 40% of my investment back.

This really seems like misdirection. No one is attacking Dean for being a bad investment, they're attacking it for repeatedly lying and dishonest. The simple undeniable truth is Dean used his personal reputation to create and back BKB to give him personal exposure to bitcoin. He repeatedly sold it as an instrument to protect against bitcoin price going down (up until including shortly before he cancelled the promise, trying several times to pitch it to me knowing I'm stupidly heavily into btc). He milked it all the way when bitcoin price was doing well, and literally the second things turned around he renegs. To the best of my knowledge, he sold ~6.5M dollars worth of BKB, not bought a *single* one back at above the ICO price  (and claimed to have hit something like 70% buybacks or something?).

I think the only thing left to do is play with semantics ("you haven't lost unless you sell!") "It's not Dean's problem if you sell at a loss" and "he's not a scammer because he wasn't intending on scamming! He only did it cause it was profitable. But to be a scammer, that has to have been your intention".


So you don't believe him when he says he bought back 70% of them?

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March 23, 2019, 06:47:30 PM
 #85

I don't think there's a way to have a productive discussion with someone who continues to ignore everything I say and just make assumptions

"To the best of my knowledge, he sold ~6.5M dollars worth of BKB, not bought a *single* one back at above the ICO price "

Yet I have stated many times I bought back 600 Bitcoin worth of BKB, all above ICO price btw, which is why I held 70% before the launch of the new platform.

So is anyone going to actually post evidence here instead of just making assumptions and twisting words or just straight up lying?
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March 23, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
 #86

I don't think there's a way to have a productive discussion with someone who continues to ignore everything I say and just make assumptions

"To the best of my knowledge, he sold ~6.5M dollars worth of BKB, not bought a *single* one back at above the ICO price "

Yet I have stated many times I bought back 600 Bitcoin worth of BKB, all above ICO price btw, which is why I held 70% before the launch of the new platform.

So is anyone going to actually post evidence here instead of just making assumptions and twisting words or just straight up lying?



70% of the 2017 post-ICO 100 million tokens means 70 million tokens. Add that to the 2017 post-ICO 30 million tokens that were not for crowdsale, makes it 100 million BKB tokens. How is that possible?

betking might have held 70% of BKB tokens before the EOS BKT token platform launch but you did not. That statement highlighted in bold gives the impression that you felt so confident in BKB that you spent your own money to buy BKBs.

Stop lying and stop misleading and stop misdirecting. Scammer.


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March 23, 2019, 07:09:51 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #87

Yet I have stated many times I bought back 600 Bitcoin worth of BKB, all above ICO price btw, which is why I held 70% before the launch of the new platform.

Again, this semantics-play is annoying. You sold them for bitcoin [1] and bought them back with bitcoin. You only bought them back slightly higher in terms of USD, and that's because bitcoin skyrockted, so you were making a killing on the buybacks. (i.e. you bought them back for less than you sold them).

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, per-se, because that was the terms of the ICO which said: You make a personal profit when the price of bitcoin goes up, and make a personal loss when price of bitcoin goes down. The problem is you reneged immediately after it actually happened.

And then after that, you started buying them back at hugely under the ICO price in both USD and Bitcoin. Maybe you outperformed the Venezuelan bolivar, so what next: everyone made a profit in terms of VES?


Also I find your "I had bought-back almost all tokens, so I only scammed a few people" kind of weak. Why wouldn't you just keep your word and eat the loss like your own terms dictated?


[1] Any some other cryptos, let's ignore that for simplicity though.
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March 23, 2019, 07:18:49 PM
 #88

Yet I have stated many times I bought back 600 Bitcoin worth of BKB, all above ICO price btw, which is why I held 70% before the launch of the new platform.

And then after that, you started buying them back at hugely under the ICO price in both USD and Bitcoin.


Where's do you get that idea from?
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March 23, 2019, 07:27:53 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #89

Where's do you get that idea from?

Ok. I give up. This conversation has gotten unproductive. You just finished trying to argue that you didn't "cancel buybacks" because they were still going (under completely and far worse terms) which are happening ~1% of the official buy-back price. If there was a disingenuous award, you'd clearly win it.


Anyway, I think it's pretty much telling that the only people who will come to your defence are BillyBurns who is clearly not a "normal" user and a bunch of newbie accounts that are offered BKB tokens to post on bitcointalk.


So I guess everyone can clearly see what a scammer you are. Good luck with your next ICO scam (bitsafe was it?), you might want to create a new identity though if you want to scam people, as "Dean Nolan" is a bit tarnished now and people will see it coming.
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March 23, 2019, 07:40:06 PM
Last edit: March 23, 2019, 07:57:36 PM by JollyGood
 #90

Where's do you get that idea from?

Ok. I give up. This conversation has gotten unproductive. You just finished trying to argue that you didn't "cancel buybacks" because they were still going (under completely and far worse terms) which are happening ~1% of the official buy-back price. If there was a disingenuous award, you'd clearly win it.


Anyway, I think it's pretty much telling that the only people who will come to your defence are BillyBurns who is clearly not a "normal" user and a bunch of newbie accounts that are offered BKB tokens to post on bitcointalk.


So I guess everyone can clearly see what a scammer you are. Good luck with your next ICO scam (bitsafe was it?), you might want to create a new identity though if you want to scam people, as "Dean Nolan" is a bit tarnished now and people will see it coming.




Since "bitsafe" was mentioned...






The scammer Dean Nolan thought he would raise $10 million by the end of the bitsafe ICO.

He only cancelled the bitsafe ICO when nobody was interested yet he claimed he sold over $880,000 worth of tokens and was going to consolidate BKB tokens in to BTSC tokens and close down betking because it was not going to be worth running any more. Just a few months ago he was going to close down betking because it was a failing business and here he is now saying it is the healthiest it has been for a long time. Scammer Dean Nolan contradicts himself all the time, he is an imbecile.

Somehow, he had another brainwave and decided to scrap the pathetic "bitsafe" idea and keep betking going but using EOS BKT tokens in the hope to bring in 200,000 new users  Shocked

Serial scammer Dean Nolan

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March 23, 2019, 07:42:01 PM
 #91

Where's do you get that idea from?

Ok. I give up. This conversation has gotten unproductive. You just finished trying to argue that you didn't "cancel buybacks" because they were still going (under completely and far worse terms) which are happening ~1% of the official buy-back price. If there was a disingenuous award, you'd clearly win it.


Anyway, I think it's pretty much telling that the only people who will come to your defence are BillyBurns who is clearly not a "normal" user and a bunch of newbie accounts that are offered BKB tokens to post on bitcointalk.


So I guess everyone can clearly see what a scammer you are. Good luck with your next ICO scam (bitsafe was it?), you might want to create a new identity though if you want to scam people, as "Dean Nolan" is a bit tarnished now and people will see it coming.

I see what you were trying to imply now.
You spoke of two separate tokens in the same post and made it sound like the 600 BTC was spent buying the original BKB tokens at less than the ICO value, which is not true.

Your 1% number also means nothing. You clearly don't understand the new model, the way the business actually works (or how it worked before, no one here seems to understand that) or any of the plans moving forward.
Which almost everyone in terms of amount BKB held the $ value of the BKB I didn't own is in favour of and has willingly swapped to BKT and gave support.
So those people were scammed?

But agree. This whole chat is totally unproductive because you are biased and post opinions as facts without knowing what you are talking about and everything gets messed up because of idiots like jolly good.
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March 23, 2019, 07:58:54 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #92

Which almost everyone in terms of amount BKB held the $ value of the BKB I didn't own is in favour of and has willingly swapped to BKT and gave support.
So those people were scammed?

That seems almost like a philosophical question. Let's say I made a 1 BTC bet with you, and I lost and paid you 1 BTC. Then you make the same bet with someone else, and you lost this time and decided you were not going to pay (would make bad business sense, you see).

Was I scammed?

I'd personally lean towards 'yes', but it does require knowing your intentions when you made the bet. But it's kind of also unproductive to speculate on intentions, so let's focus on who you directly scammed, which was token holders (like LoyceV).

And once again, if the amounts involved are so small: why would you even scam people, and just not keep your word?
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March 23, 2019, 08:06:47 PM
 #93

Good luck with your next ICO scam (bitsafe was it?), you might want to create a new identity though if you want to scam people, as "Dean Nolan" is a bit tarnished now and people will see it coming.
On November 30, 2018, I received a "Latest news" email from BetKing:
Quote
Future of BKB and BetKing
 
BetKing will be moving away from gambling and rebranding to become a Bitcoin bank, exchange and payment processor.
 
We have already began work on this and we will launch in q1 of 2019. See https://bitsafe.io for more details and a working demo of the app.
 
Once the new site is live BKB will be converted to BTSC (BitSafe Coin) automatically using the exchange rate of both tokens at the time.
 
BTSC has similar utility to BKB in that it can be used to pay trade fees, merchant fees and any other fees on the BitSafe platform.
 
BitSafe will also use 40% of it's quarterly profit to buy back BTSC on the BitSafe exchange.
 
We believe these changes are best for BKB token holders and our future success together.

On January 28, 2019, I received another email from BetKing:
Quote
We are moving our token to the EOS platform and doing an airdrop to EOS token holders allowing us to reach a whole new market of players.

Existing BKB holders will be able to convert BKB for the new token.
 
​We are launching a new exchange, design and games as well as hourly leaderboard promos and hourly dividends to token holders.
 
We feel these changes combine the best of traditional off chain crytpo casinos with new on chain DApp based games and provide a whole new unique product.

For full details on all the changes, how the new token works read the whitepaper here for all the details.
 
https://medium.com/@BetKingIO/betking-eos-airdrop-whitepaper-f2834324d57c
I didn't realize until now that these are different tokens!



Quote
no one here seems to understand that
You've given many different pieces of incomplete information, and sometimes change posts afterwards.

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March 23, 2019, 08:11:39 PM
 #94

I have nothing more to add to this conversation, so I'll just leave with: Dean, Why don't you just cut the bullshit, and give us a direct answer to why you won't just buy back tokens at the promised price? What's the marginal utility of the cost of doing that? No matter what you do, you're probably going to die a wealthy man.  Was it really worth living with the fact you're a scammer? Was your reputation worth it?

Sad.
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March 23, 2019, 08:13:31 PM
 #95

Good luck with your next ICO scam (bitsafe was it?), you might want to create a new identity though if you want to scam people, as "Dean Nolan" is a bit tarnished now and people will see it coming.
On November 30, 2018, I received a "Latest news" email from BetKing:
Quote
Future of BKB and BetKing
 
BetKing will be moving away from gambling and rebranding to become a Bitcoin bank, exchange and payment processor.
 
We have already began work on this and we will launch in q1 of 2019. See https://bitsafe.io for more details and a working demo of the app.
 
Once the new site is live BKB will be converted to BTSC (BitSafe Coin) automatically using the exchange rate of both tokens at the time.
 
BTSC has similar utility to BKB in that it can be used to pay trade fees, merchant fees and any other fees on the BitSafe platform.
 
BitSafe will also use 40% of it's quarterly profit to buy back BTSC on the BitSafe exchange.
 
We believe these changes are best for BKB token holders and our future success together.

On January 28, 2019, I received another email from BetKing:
Quote
We are moving our token to the EOS platform and doing an airdrop to EOS token holders allowing us to reach a whole new market of players.

Existing BKB holders will be able to convert BKB for the new token.
 
​We are launching a new exchange, design and games as well as hourly leaderboard promos and hourly dividends to token holders.
 
We feel these changes combine the best of traditional off chain crytpo casinos with new on chain DApp based games and provide a whole new unique product.

For full details on all the changes, how the new token works read the whitepaper here for all the details.
 
https://medium.com/@BetKingIO/betking-eos-airdrop-whitepaper-f2834324d57c
I didn't realize until now that these are different tokens!



Quote
no one here seems to understand that
You've given many different pieces of incomplete information, and sometimes change posts afterwards.


Wait.....

So when you received the email on November 30, 2018 stating betking was going to close and be rebranded to "bitsafe" it means this scammer Dean Nolan was using betking ICO funds to pay developers to create "bitsafe" when those funds should have been used specifically for betking !

What a serial scammer low-life Dean Nolan is.

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March 23, 2019, 08:14:50 PM
 #96

Which almost everyone in terms of amount BKB held the $ value of the BKB I didn't own is in favour of and has willingly swapped to BKT and gave support.
So those people were scammed?
so let's focus on who you directly scammed, which was token holders (like LoyceV).


I see absolutely no proof presented from anyone that I scammed token holders, including LoyceV
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March 23, 2019, 08:15:59 PM
Last edit: March 27, 2019, 10:32:33 PM by JollyGood
 #97

Which almost everyone in terms of amount BKB held the $ value of the BKB I didn't own is in favour of and has willingly swapped to BKT and gave support.
So those people were scammed?
so let's focus on who you directly scammed, which was token holders (like LoyceV).


I see absolutely no proof presented from anyone that I scammed token holders, including LoyceV


I am sure the crypto wallets owned by scammer Dean Nolan would provide evidence to the contrary  Roll Eyes



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March 23, 2019, 08:19:49 PM
Merited by RHavar (20)
 #98

I see absolutely no proof presented from anyone that I scammed token holders, including LoyceV
I kinda wanted to give this post 50 Merit, and lock the thread. This post nicely summarizes your stance.
Instead, I've just archived it.
It's quite normal for the defendant to deny everything, despite overwhelming evidence.
I don't think this topic has much more to offer. You have the red trust you deserve to warn others, I have my worthless tokens.

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March 23, 2019, 08:47:42 PM
 #99

It appears the ultimate basis for saying BetKing.io scammed investors via the ICO is the lack of buybacks.

My reading of how the buybacks work is they are based on the total raised and the total profits of the bankroll.

There appear to be 70 million tokens offered for sale, and 100 million total. The price appears to be based off of only the tokens offered for sale.

As an example, if they raised $35 million in total, the price for the tokens would be $0.50 each ("Token Price").

The buyback price appears to be based on the bankroll profits for the preceding quarter ("Quarters Profit") and the Token Price. As an example, if the Quarters Profit was $5 million, they would take 10% to apply to the tokens, or $500,000 and add this to the Token Price, and offer to buy back 10% of token holders at this price. So the Quarters Profit portion of the buyback price in this example would be $0.05, and the Token Price portion of the buyback price would be $0.50, for a total of $0.55. In this hypothetical example, $3,550,000 would be used to buy back tokens.

According to how the ICO page described how the ICO proceeds would be used, only 50% of the ICO proceeds were to be used to fund the bankroll, and the balance was to be used for operating expenses.

In the above example, $17.5 million would be allocated to the bankroll, and $5 million would be bankroll profit, but after the buyback, the total bankroll would be $18.95 million.

If the profits were lower, things would take a turn for the worse for token holders. For example, if bankroll profits were only $2 million, then $3,520,000 would be used to buy back tokens, but after the buybacks, only $15.98 million would be left in the bankroll.

Adding to the risk is that bitcoin's price may decline (it did), and the "Token Price" portion of the buyback price may get more expensive in terms of bitcoin, and the bankroll and bets appears to be denominated in terms of bitcoin. It should be simple enough to convert any bankroll profits to dollars when buying back tokens.

The way I am reading how bankroll profits are used to fund buybacks, only 1% of bankroll profits are used for buybacks. This hardly sounds fair, but token holders were free to negotiate different/better terms before buying.

The entire setup appears asinine, and subjects everyone to unnecessary risks. I don't understand why a percentage of bankroll profits would not be converted to etherum, or a stablecoin that could be airdropped to token holders in the form of a dividend. A market may develop for these tokens to capture the anticipated future cash flows of the dividends.

The way I read the terms, betking needs to buyback token holders at the Token Price if bankroll profits are zero (he needs to buy back 10% of tokens).

A decreasing percentage of the original amount of tokens issued will need to be repurchased each quarter in order for 10% of the remaining tokens to be repurchased. The first quarter would see 10% of the original tokens repurchased, the second quarter would see 9% of tokens repurchased, the 3rd quarter 8.1%, and so on.

My question to betking would be: Were 10% of outstanding tokens offered to be repurchased at a price described above? If not, I believe you have not honored your obligations.

Anyone can correct me if there is an error in my understanding.


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Blender
 
The ULTIMATE BITCOIN Mixer
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JollyGood
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Activity: 1050
Merit: 847


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March 23, 2019, 09:17:57 PM
 #100

I see absolutely no proof presented from anyone that I scammed token holders, including LoyceV
I kinda wanted to give this post 50 Merit, and lock the thread. This post nicely summarizes your stance.
Instead, I've just archived it.
It's quite normal for the defendant to deny everything, despite overwhelming evidence.
I don't think this topic has much more to offer. You have the red trust you deserve to warn others, I have my worthless tokens.


Please do not lock this thread.

Yes scammer Dean Nolan has the red trust he deserves but please keep this thread open because maybe one day he might want to visit here to post the word "sorry" which he clearly has difficulty in saying at the moment.

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