Depositing crypto into BlockFi to earn interest, ok or stupid idea?

[Beerwizzard]

A wish to deposit crypto somewhere and get interest is a stupid idea by default. Cryptocurrencies are generally considered as a very risky investments. And you are trying to give your risky investment to someone else, who may not give it back. In that case you are multiplying your risks. And tbh those interests are not really big (untill you are looking on a ponzi) and not worth that risk.

[1Referee]

And tbh those interests are not really big (untill you are looking on a ponzi) and not worth that risk.

What's the point of comparing these 'lower' interest rates to the insane/unrealistic ones that ponzis offer? You're basically comparing an entity trying to do it the right way to an entity that's outright trying to scam you. On top of that, the interest rates are actually still somewhat on the higher side being 6%.

The highest interest rate my bank offers for my money is 1.8% if I lock it up for 2 years, and like 0.1% over my regular savings that I can access at any time of the day. The highest ever interest rate my bank offered me was almost 5% but these good times are over unfortunately.

[gentlemand]

I guess it's a Ponzi, how else do they want to make more than 6% p. a.? Actually there is one other possibility. They'll long BTC on say 3:1 leverage.

Can you not be arsed to read?

They lend out at high rates on short terms to established traders. They're the ones who are longing or shorting and that's how they can, or could, afford to pay those rates. Unfortunately it looks like those traders would rather be paid interest than have to pay it out.

[mescalito]

I guess it's a Ponzi, how else do they want to make more than 6% p. a.? Actually there is one other possibility. They'll long BTC on say 3:1 leverage.

Can you not be arsed to read?

They lend out at high rates on short terms to established traders. They're the ones who are longing or shorting and that's how they can, or could, afford to pay those rates. Unfortunately it looks like those traders would rather be paid interest than have to pay it out.

Where can I find the info about that? However I still think it's way better to e. g. make a long 3:1 leveraged bet of 0.6 than to risk 10. If BTC goes to 10k in 2 year (almost sure ), the result will be the same with way lower risk. In case of an extreme event like alts rally 2 Y ago, half of the traders will go bust and won't be able to pay back.

[gentlemand]

Where can I find the info about that? However I still think it's way better to e. g. make a long 3:1 leveraged bet of 0.6 than to risk 10. If BTC goes to 10k in 2 year (almost sure ), the result will be the same with way lower risk. In case of an extreme event like alts rally 2 Y ago, half of the traders will go bust and won't be able to pay back.

https://blockfi.com/earn-bitcoin-interest/

'BlockFi generates interest on assets held in Interest Accounts by lending them to trusted institutional and corporate borrowers. To ensure loan performance, BlockFi typically lends crypto on overcollateralized terms (similar to the structure of our crypto-backed loans). Furthermore, BlockFi’s automated risk management system monitors positions 24/7, leveraging the same trusted risk management system used with BlockFi’s crypto-backed loans.  BlockFi has the ability to terminate a borrow in a timely fashion and also manages reserve balances to facilitate client withdrawals from Interest Accounts.'

I presume they know their stuff when it comes to the people they lend to. Then again I'm sure plenty who finished up in ruins thought they did too.

[TheMoneyMongers]

Celsius network gives a better deal IMO. Moreover, the founder has a great history of disrupting various industries and now he is behind lending markets. Interest rates are low but the benefit is you can withdraw your money anytime you want, which blockfi doesn't provides...

[deebawriter]

Do not know more about it.. But its development speed up again as BlockFi Launches Flexible Interest Payments Across BTC, ETH, and Gemini USD
The news release today.. https://btcmanager.com/blockfi-flexible-interest-payments-btc-eth-gemini-usd/?q=/blockfi-flexible-interest-payments-btc-eth-gemini-usd/&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=socialpush&utm_campaign=SNAP

[AdolfinWolf]

Celsius network gives a better deal IMO. Moreover, the founder has a great history of disrupting various industries and now he is behind lending markets. Interest rates are low but the benefit is you can withdraw your money anytime you want, which blockfi doesn't provides...

The blockchain industry is in growth mode. Businesses are building and investors are looking for ways to accumulate more capital. BlockFi Interest Account clients can deposit their Bitcoin, Ether, or Gemini Dollar (GUSD) and earn up to 6% interest annually. Paid out on at the beginning of every month, the interest earned by account holders compounds, increasing the annual yield for our clients up to 6.2%. This is an easy way for crypto investors to earn bitcoin while they HODL.

You can withdraw every month with interest.

Their rates for 20+ BTC are immediately slashed to 2.2%. https://blockfi.com/rates/

Celsius doesn't have compounding interest. Looking at their explanation of their interest rates, it seems extremely sketchy.

https://support.celsius.network/hc/en-us/articles/360001978877-Does-interest-compound-

When you withdraw, you are withdrawing from your principal first. If you have 1 BTC deposited, 0.1 BTC earned as interest, and you withdraw 0.1 BTC, your earning balance will be 0.9 even though your balance is still 1 BTC. If you withdraw the full 1.1 BTC, your earning balance will be -0.1 so you would have to deposit more than 0.1 BTC to start earning interest again.

This is just stupid. No investor should use them.

I can't find any info about what happens if you deposit 20+ BTC with them. I assume they slash rates as well but there's no info anywhere.

I have yet to use any of them as i'm not particularly keen on their business models. Probably won't.

[kalus]

What is the incentive to reduce interest for amounts >20btc?  Do more, smaller deposits distribute risk, or give blockFI an additional advantage somehow? 

[AdolfinWolf]

What is the incentive to reduce interest for amounts >20btc?  Do more, smaller deposits distribute risk, or give blockFI an additional advantage somehow? 

No, it’s more likely simply due to the fact that they don’t have enough loans to cover the interests on if let’s say someone deposits 500BTC. They keep the interest high on smaller amounts probably to increase the awareness, and because they can actually generate the amount of interest on these smaller amounts with their outstanding loans.

But it’s just stupid because i’d simply let a relative/lawyer open another account if i want to go over the 20BTC mark, right?

These lending services are just weird to me.

[egetrorx]

If you need a loan, but traditional institutions won’t bring it to you; or because you don’t trust them as I do, Blockfi brings you a great opportunity to borrow money using your cryptocurrencies as collateral, while offering you a super-low interest rate.
https://cryptocrow.net/bitcoin-loans/

[merc1969]

Anyone has any details about the location of blockfi ?
I checked their site and got this address -  ( https://blockfi.com/contact/ )

201 Montgomery Street
Second Floor, Suite 263
Jersey City, New Jersey 07302
646-779-9688

Also found that the following firms also share the same office address  as above  -
1. "New Jersey Anesthesia Professionals"   ( If you search this on google )
2. Colormatics  ( https://www.colormatics.com/#contact )
3. Data Gallery LLC ( https://www.facebook.com/pg/datagallery.io/about/ )

I am not sure how virtual companies work, and I have heard of virtual addresses for firms, but  w.r.t sharing the same address with lots of other firms, I haven't seen many cases. But given that they are backed by the Winklevoss brothers and Perter Thiel etc,  ( https://winklevosscapital.com/portfolio/ ) , having to not have a "real" office is kind of showing lack of trust ? I don't know where they operate from.

Any leads on this before I start investing my BTC with them ??

If you need a loan, but traditional institutions won’t bring it to you; or because you don’t trust them as I do, Blockfi brings you a great opportunity to borrow money using your cryptocurrencies as collateral, while offering you a super-low interest rate.
https://cryptocrow.net/bitcoin-loans/

[squatz1]

What is the incentive to reduce interest for amounts >20btc?  Do more, smaller deposits distribute risk, or give blockFI an additional advantage somehow? 

No, it’s more likely simply due to the fact that they don’t have enough loans to cover the interests on if let’s say someone deposits 500BTC. They keep the interest high on smaller amounts probably to increase the awareness, and because they can actually generate the amount of interest on these smaller amounts with their outstanding loans.

But it’s just stupid because i’d simply let a relative/lawyer open another account if i want to go over the 20BTC mark, right?

These lending services are just weird to me.

Well these companies are taking your money and 'selling' it to people who use bitcoin on margin. That's where their money is to be made here. Typically it is going to be people who are shorting bitcoin are going to use their funds.

But yes, they may not have the demand from institutional investors (and others) who are shorting bitcoin to want more then 20 per account. And yes, you could have family members open everything up to go past it but you'd have to have them KYC all their information as well.

It's stupid if you think that the company is going to go under at some point, and that you'd be losing your funds. Which honestly, could happen to a crypto company at any point because there is a risk of hacking and stealing the funds (which isn't something that is present in traditional asset groups)

Is it within your personal risk tolerance to put all your funds at risk for 4-6 percent (as it does change with market movements)? You decide.

[pawanjain]

Even if the interest rate is 7% per annum, why would anybody take that kind of risk with their money.
You are basically giving out your money to someone you don't know and hoping to get 7% more in return at the end of 1 year.
You know how good hackers are at hacking such exchanges and services right. I am sure I would never take the risk of investing my money just for a mere 7%.
I would rather hold it in my wallet and hope BTC to increase 7% more than it would normally do.

[merc1969]

DISCLAIMER :
1. I do not have an account with them .
2. This is a longread.

Came to know from some other source that blockfi.com DONOT have a data privacy policy .
Read - https://blockfi.com/terms/ for the details .
I read through their terms and conditions - Here are some points about privacy and security that I am putting across its explanation .

1.Exact words in Terms and Conditions (T&C) -
  "The nature of cryptocurrency means that any technological difficulties experienced by BlockFi may prevent the access or use of a customer’s cryptocurrency. Any bond or trust account maintained by BlockFi for the benefit of its customers may not be sufficient to cover all losses incurred by customers."

Which means - they wont be liable to reimburse you for any loss arising from any acts of hacking/fraud ( even by the founders)  might mean that you will lose 100% of your investment. ( remember nicehash hack ? ) - well - its understandable .   Also means that you cryptocurrency is not insured and they are not liable for any reimbursement.

2. exact words in T&C -
"You agree to indemnify and hold us and our affiliates harmless from any losses, damages, suits and expenses, of whatever kind, including reasonable attorneys’ fees, which we may incur in connection with or arising out of your use of your Crypto Interest Account or our activities in connection with such account, .... "

Which means - same as above

3. Moreover, they do not handle your KYC data ( including any ID or SSN numbers etc ). They outsource it to a third party. You cannot hold blockfi liable for any loss of your data - the moment you sign the agreement. ( hackers/ acts of nature etc ). The details of the third party - I am not sure.
Note: ( If any one who knows the third party who is handling the personal documents and SSN - please let everyone know in this thread - I will spend time and do further investigation.


In a nutshell - Even though it looks like a well backed firm, for 5% interest and limited withdrawing powers to the investor, this seems a rather risky proposition.

Even if the interest rate is 7% per annum, why would anybody take that kind of risk with their money.
You are basically giving out your money to someone you don't know and hoping to get 7% more in return at the end of 1 year.
You know how good hackers are at hacking such exchanges and services right. I am sure I would never take the risk of investing my money just for a mere 7%.
I would rather hold it in my wallet and hope BTC to increase 7% more than it would normally do.

[jetbird]

"BlockFi engages in two activities to generate return: (1) purchasing, as principal, SEC-regulated equities and predominately CFTC- regulated futures; and (2) lending crypto assets in the institutional market. See “What are the risks with depositing my crypto at BlockFi?” for more details."

So they are also trading equities and futures to generate return.... Seems a bit risky to me relative to future expected returns, if there was an event. I wonder what % of their portfolio is tied up in #1?