Bitcoin Forum
May 06, 2021, 06:11:20 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.21.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: new asic ETH miners is coming. and Trent.eth just twittered!  (Read 397 times)
twan69666
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 58
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 02:58:41 AM
 #21


My thoughts are eth will fuck it up much as they did back in 2017-2018.


Agreed. There will be unforeseen issues trying to do something they planned to do 2-3 years from now, in 6 months.

In the meantime, people need to stop paying 3-4x MSRP for gpu's, and ignore Metroid's crystal ball as well. It's batting .001% these past 5 months  Tongue
1620281480
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1620281480

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1620281480
Reply with quote  #2

1620281480
Report to moderator
1620281480
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1620281480

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1620281480
Reply with quote  #2

1620281480
Report to moderator
1620281480
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1620281480

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1620281480
Reply with quote  #2

1620281480
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1620281480
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1620281480

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1620281480
Reply with quote  #2

1620281480
Report to moderator
asiabtc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966
Merit: 1000

Crypto Currency , Mining, Exchange ATM, Wallet!


View Profile WWW
May 01, 2021, 03:30:10 AM
 #22


My thoughts are eth will fuck it up much as they did back in 2017-2018.


Agreed. There will be unforeseen issues trying to do something they planned to do 2-3 years from now, in 6 months.

In the meantime, people need to stop paying 3-4x MSRP for gpu's, and ignore Metroid's crystal ball as well. It's batting .001% these past 5 months  Tongue
try to mine ethercoin.org

there is many scam. they are using my similar skype id, qq, whatever . pls go to my website to place order only.www.lightningasic.com 币圈老兵,从2013年战斗至今。ASIC GPU矿机,ATM, 硬件钱包,挖矿。ALTCOIN,BTC,LTC,Dogecoin research, Producing BTC LTC Dogecoin Mining Machine, Exchange market policy study.Skype:  altcoin Twitter: @lightningasic Co-Founder of LIGHTNINGASIC 关注微博: @比特币矿机 TWITTER: @realSatoshi_ii, 获得最新资讯。
KougarLOB
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 130
Merit: 16


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 03:38:58 AM
 #23

ASICs being announced now are already running and the pending shitstorm is already baked into the network hashrate.  Units for sale are just a few extras manufacturers don't want to host.  I've been hearing "GPU mining is dead" since 2015.

1ER7JwEjpjQfm4qaTxy6EaNdNy8MqzP1pt  Smiley
Vann
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812
Merit: 595


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 03:56:04 AM
 #24

One bit of encouragement, at least in how it relates to the chips needed to produce ASICs at scale is the global chip shortage, which is very much real. You have Telsa, GPU and Cellphone manufacturers all scrambling to source raw materials to continue production, so I very much doubt Bitmain and the other ASIC manufacturer's are in any better position. The few units initially available will most likely be very overpriced for those willing to pay to play. That also gives the ETH developers enough time to address the issue if they choose to. When you have entire market segments riding on your back, the last thing you want to do is rush things out.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/China-demand-helps-Tesla-to-record-quarter-amid-chip-shortage



Philipma1957cellphone
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 286
Merit: 61


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 04:29:14 AM
 #25


My thoughts are eth will fuck it up much as they did back in 2017-2018.


Agreed. There will be unforeseen issues trying to do something they planned to do 2-3 years from now, in 6 months.

In the meantime, people need to stop paying 3-4x MSRP for gpu's, and ignore Metroid's crystal ball as well. It's batting .001% these past 5 months  Tongue

Metroid called the crash far too soon.

In fact he claimed he bailed in Jan. Selling off at a good profit.

If he held he would be 2x that maybe 3x that.

So even if he made 1 million he should have made at least 2 or maybe 2.5 million

To be nice.  If he sold 1/2 then and 1/2 now he would be at 1.75 million vs 1 million.

Hey I fucked up with doge I had 1,000,000 coins and sold too quickly. Made about 60k I could have made 200k

This is philipma1957 alt. Do not conduct business  with this account
batsonxl
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 10


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 04:39:36 AM
 #26


My thoughts are eth will fuck it up much as they did back in 2017-2018.


Agreed. There will be unforeseen issues trying to do something they planned to do 2-3 years from now, in 6 months.

In the meantime, people need to stop paying 3-4x MSRP for gpu's, and ignore Metroid's crystal ball as well. It's batting .001% these past 5 months  Tongue

Metroid called the crash far too soon.

In fact he claimed he bailed in Jan. Selling off at a good profit.

If he held he would be 2x that maybe 3x that.

So even if he made 1 million he should have made at least 2 or maybe 2.5 million

To be nice.  If he sold 1/2 then and 1/2 now he would be at 1.75 million vs 1 million.

Hey I fucked up with doge I had 1,000,000 coins and sold too quickly. Made about 60k I could have made 200k

Dont sell your all coins at once lets say sell 60-70% and wait if it goes too low breaks many resistance then sell rest 30%. Thats why i dont like doge and xrp because the price depends on couple of people. When they twit price goes up when they silently sell price will go down.
arielbit
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2534
Merit: 1033


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 05:54:56 AM
 #27

If all these new ETH ASIC reported hash rates are true, they are a great improvement over the 1st generation ETH ASICS, which amounted to nothing more than a regular RX 570/580 rig at the time at maybe a tiny power savings. If the stated rates are true, current yields are going to seem like the good old days once more and more ASICS come online. GPU miners will be left to fighting over smaller and smaller scraps to the point where it becomes irrelevant. The same thing happened with LTC and DASH back in 2014. The one standout from back then was VTC which quickly moved from nScrypt once an ASIC was developed. Unfortunately for GPU miners it's never managed to gain traction.

reason this time, asics on eth matters, this is likely the last time you will see mining as profitable, 3080 was doing around 15 usd highest in few days, in 2016 - 2018 was as much as 15 usd per gpu too, highest, not even in the next bullrun will be profitable like this one, they really found a way to make memory bandwidth intensive asics, so any new coin that comes to be successful like eth in memory will also suffer the same fate. Now the deed is done and gpu mining is about to really be dead for eth.

"memory bandwidth" and "memory intensive" suffered the same fate as history has proven again and again.

hell even if a new coin claims something like that and the devs are "into mining" like mining software, pools, mining hardware...most likely they have already an edge in mining. like fpga, optimized miner etc..

my bet for the next best mining venture is filecoin(assuming price will not tank to unprofitable levels), it still utilizes gpus, so it looks like a gpu mining rig with 6 cards and 6 VMs..the DAG is replaced by VM...why 6 VMs?(or more) ..ddr5 RAM single module can be 512gb.. the previous generation will be "fpga'd or asic'd" by the next generation LOL

VM= cpu cores, RAM, nvme, ssd, hdd --->this cannot be ASIC'd that's for sure  Wink
Looper_U
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 93
Merit: 1


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 07:31:10 AM
 #28

Fuck what everyone thinks, if Ethereum goes down there are many coins that will remain profitable, most especially if you are using Nvidia graphic cards, do not worry yourself as there are other algorithms to mine for profits




That's RTX2080ti presently, you think all we have is ETH? I don't think so

─────────   CitizenFinance.io   ─────────
A DECENTRALIZED GAMING PLATFORM POWERING
THE NEXT-GEN NFT-BASED UTILITIES
batsonxl
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 10


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 07:35:06 AM
 #29

Fuck what everyone thinks, if Ethereum goes down there are many coins that will remain profitable, most especially if you are using Nvidia graphic cards, do not worry yourself as there are other algorithms to mine for profits




That's RTX2080ti presently, you think all we have is ETH? I don't think so
Yes in bearmarket there was alot coins were more profitable than eth. AMD also doing fine recently RVN and Beam are supporting amd too. I like nvidia only that it is less hassle just oc it run it forget it.
Metroid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1568
Merit: 326


Xtreme Monster


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 08:57:40 AM
 #30

Metroid called the crash far too soon.

In fact he claimed he bailed in Jan. Selling off at a good profit.

If he held he would be 2x that maybe 3x that.

So even if he made 1 million he should have made at least 2 or maybe 2.5 million

To be nice.  If he sold 1/2 then and 1/2 now he would be at 1.75 million vs 1 million.

Hey I fucked up with doge I had 1,000,000 coins and sold too quickly. Made about 60k I could have made 200k


This is subjective, I mean, yeah on eth would be 2x right now, price is around 2800 usd, sold around 1450 usd, so yeah in that sense yes, however in alcoins no, most altcoins I had they are actually 3x cheaper than it was when I sold, did I buy back no and I will not, I know the last bulltrap is about to happen and that will top around 79k on btc, on eth, I thought it would never get higher than 2k because eth is still eth 1.0, last year it was 100 usd, now 2800, that is bs, so this is a fool's game what they are doing to eth and that will end bad just like 2018, eth crashed 94% in 2018, now might be less but will still crash hard, thieves will not hold eth for very long, they buy wait a little then sell, most are not long holders, anyway, if this was eth 2.0 then yeah but is not, so I still dont believe they will take this much higher than what it is at moment, I know will be a last bulltrap, and whales will take profit at some point and when they do, others will too, and eth 2.0 to happen, will be at least 3 to 5 years and that is what I think will be the start of the next bullrun. So my advice is, do not buy now, wait the crash and if you did not sell then sell most of it and keep some to sell at top because is close to the top already.

About doge, I dont think you made a bad decision, that thing had already rose a lot, so you took profit, now you cant accept the profit you took, you need to work on that because is bad for your head, trust me. Sell at top is close to impossible because it will stay there for only few minutes then going to hehell, do not wait for the top, sell when your target is hit.

and to all you trolls, crypto rises a lot and crashes a lot, so be very careful, only hold what you are willing to lose. I myself still holding some eth and some altcoins that I'm willing to lose, lets see where it will take to.

BTC Address: 1DH4ok85VdFAe47fSVXNVctxkFhUv4ujbR
Zotak337
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 92
Merit: 2


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 09:28:21 AM
 #31


My thoughts are eth will fuck it up much as they did back in 2017-2018.


Agreed. There will be unforeseen issues trying to do something they planned to do 2-3 years from now, in 6 months.

In the meantime, people need to stop paying 3-4x MSRP for gpu's, and ignore Metroid's crystal ball as well. It's batting .001% these past 5 months  Tongue

Metroid called the crash far too soon.

In fact he claimed he bailed in Jan. Selling off at a good profit.

If he held he would be 2x that maybe 3x that.

So even if he made 1 million he should have made at least 2 or maybe 2.5 million

To be nice.  If he sold 1/2 then and 1/2 now he would be at 1.75 million vs 1 million.

Hey I fucked up with doge I had 1,000,000 coins and sold too quickly. Made about 60k I could have made 200k

Selling 1million pieces of dogecoin at 60k wont bother me an inch if it later surge up to 200k, tell me how much you buy the whole 1m dogecoin, this coin was so worthless in few months back most especially in 2019/2020, to me I believe you did the right thing because let's be honest dogecoin is overhyped and over bought

─────────   CitizenFinance.io   ─────────
A DECENTRALIZED GAMING PLATFORM POWERING
THE NEXT-GEN NFT-BASED UTILITIES
swogerino
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1052


★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 10:18:02 AM
 #32

Eth developers if they want can just alter a little bit their algo to screw ASIC miners.However even if that does not happen and we are overwhelmed with these ASIC miners there are a lot of other algorithms which are really profitable to mine except Eth.



.
.BIG WINNER!.
[15.00000000 BTC]


▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████▀▀██████████
█████████░░░░█████████
██████████▄▄██████████
███████▀▀████▀▀███████
██████░░░░██░░░░██████
███████▄▄████▄▄███████
████▀▀████▀▀████▀▀████
███░░░░██░░░░██░░░░███
████▄▄████▄▄████▄▄████
██████████████████████

▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████▀▀█▀▀▀▀▀▀██▀▀████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░▄████
█████░░▄███▄░░░░██████
█████▄▄███▀░░░░▄██████
█████████░░░░░░███████
████████░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░███████
███████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████

██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
███████████▀▀▄▄█░░░░░█
█████████▀░░█████░░░░█
███████▀░░░░░████▀░░░▀
██████░░░░░░░░▀▄▄█████
█████░▄░░░░░▄██████▀▀█
████░████▄░███████░░░░
███░█████░█████████░░█
███░░░▀█░██████████░░█
███░░░░░░████▀▀██▀░░░░
███░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░

██░▄▄▄▄░████▄▄██▄░░░░
████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██
█████████████░█▀▀▀█░███
██████████▀▀░█▀░░░▀█░▀▀
███████▀░▄▄█░█░░░░░█░█▄
████▀░▄▄████░▀█░░░█▀░██
███░▄████▀▀░▄░▀█░█▀░▄░▀
█▀░███▀▀▀░░███░▀█▀░███░
▀░███▀░░░░░████▄░▄████░
░███▀░░░░░░░█████████░░
░███░░░░░░░░░███████░░░
███▀░██░░░░░░▀░▄▄▄░▀░░░
███░██████▄▄░▄█████▄░▄▄

██░████████░███████░█
▄████████████████████▄
████████▀▀░░░▀▀███████
███▀▀░░░░░▄▄▄░░░░▀▀▀██
██░▀▀▄▄░░░▀▀▀░░░▄▄▀▀██
██░▄▄░░▀▀▄▄░▄▄▀▀░░░░██
██░▀▀░░░░░░█░░░░░██░██
██░░░▄▄░░░░█░██░░░░░██
██░░░▀▀░░░░█░░░░░░░░██
██░░░░░▄▄░░█░░░░░██░██
██▄░░░░▀▀░░█░██░░░░░██
█████▄▄░░░░█░░░░▄▄████
█████████▄▄█▄▄████████

▀████████████████████▀




Rainbot
Daily Quests
Faucet
twan69666
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 58
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 12:25:54 PM
 #33

Metroid called the crash far too soon.

In fact he claimed he bailed in Jan. Selling off at a good profit.

If he held he would be 2x that maybe 3x that.

So even if he made 1 million he should have made at least 2 or maybe 2.5 million

To be nice.  If he sold 1/2 then and 1/2 now he would be at 1.75 million vs 1 million.

Hey I fucked up with doge I had 1,000,000 coins and sold too quickly. Made about 60k I could have made 200k


This is subjective, I mean, yeah on eth would be 2x right now, price is around 2800 usd, sold around 1450 usd, so yeah in that sense yes, however in alcoins no, most altcoins I had they are actually 3x cheaper than it was when I sold, did I buy back no and I will not, I know the last bulltrap is about to happen and that will top around 79k on btc, on eth, I thought it would never get higher than 2k because eth is still eth 1.0, last year it was 100 usd, now 2800, that is bs, so this is a fool's game what they are doing to eth and that will end bad just like 2018, eth crashed 94% in 2018, now might be less but will still crash hard, thieves will not hold eth for very long, they buy wait a little then sell, most are not long holders, anyway, if this was eth 2.0 then yeah but is not, so I still dont believe they will take this much higher than what it is at moment, I know will be a last bulltrap, and whales will take profit at some point and when they do, others will too, and eth 2.0 to happen, will be at least 3 to 5 years and that is what I think will be the start of the next bullrun. So my advice is, do not buy now, wait the crash and if you did not sell then sell most of it and keep some to sell at top because is close to the top already.

About doge, I dont think you made a bad decision, that thing had already rose a lot, so you took profit, now you cant accept the profit you took, you need to work on that because is bad for your head, trust me. Sell at top is close to impossible because it will stay there for only few minutes then going to hehell, do not wait for the top, sell when your target is hit.

and to all you trolls, crypto rises a lot and crashes a lot, so be very careful, only hold what you are willing to lose. I myself still holding some eth and some altcoins that I'm willing to lose, lets see where it will take to.

If you sold and made a profit, dont ever look back and say "what if". Making a profit from a trade/sale is a good thing and something to never, ever be ashamed of
Metroid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1568
Merit: 326


Xtreme Monster


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 12:47:53 PM
 #34

If you sold and made a profit, dont ever look back and say "what if". Making a profit from a trade/sale is a good thing and something to never, ever be ashamed of

Yeah, I really hope more people could think like you and me in that way.

BTC Address: 1DH4ok85VdFAe47fSVXNVctxkFhUv4ujbR
Philipma1957cellphone
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 286
Merit: 61


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 02:22:14 PM
Last edit: May 01, 2021, 02:36:07 PM by Philipma1957cellphone
 #35

Metroid called the crash far too soon.

In fact he claimed he bailed in Jan. Selling off at a good profit.

If he held he would be 2x that maybe 3x that.

So even if he made 1 million he should have made at least 2 or maybe 2.5 million

To be nice.  If he sold 1/2 then and 1/2 now he would be at 1.75 million vs 1 million.

Hey I fucked up with doge I had 1,000,000 coins and sold too quickly. Made about 60k I could have made 200k


This is subjective, I mean, yeah on eth would be 2x right now, price is around 2800 usd, sold around 1450 usd, so yeah in that sense yes, however in alcoins no, most altcoins I had they are actually 3x cheaper than it was when I sold, did I buy back no and I will not, I know the last bulltrap is about to happen and that will top around 79k on btc, on eth, I thought it would never get higher than 2k because eth is still eth 1.0, last year it was 100 usd, now 2800, that is bs, so this is a fool's game what they are doing to eth and that will end bad just like 2018, eth crashed 94% in 2018, now might be less but will still crash hard, thieves will not hold eth for very long, they buy wait a little then sell, most are not long holders, anyway, if this was eth 2.0 then yeah but is not, so I still dont believe they will take this much higher than what it is at moment, I know will be a last bulltrap, and whales will take profit at some point and when they do, others will too, and eth 2.0 to happen, will be at least 3 to 5 years and that is what I think will be the start of the next bullrun. So my advice is, do not buy now, wait the crash and if you did not sell then sell most of it and keep some to sell at top because is close to the top already.

About doge, I dont think you made a bad decision, that thing had already rose a lot, so you took profit, now you cant accept the profit you took, you need to work on that because is bad for your head, trust me. Sell at top is close to impossible because it will stay there for only few minutes then going to hehell, do not wait for the top, sell when your target is hit.

and to all you trolls, crypto rises a lot and crashes a lot, so be very careful, only hold what you are willing to lose. I myself still holding some eth and some altcoins that I'm willing to lose, lets see where it will take to.


Oh I bitch and moan about selling the doge at a 60k profit. But i am still mining it.

It earns 4k a month vs 32 usd a month last summer.

And i purchased a lot of gpus with the sales of the eth they earn 9k a month

So even though holding the million eth and selling at 60k profit vs 200-240 is a drag.

I am earning good money from the 60k.

Calling bear since jan in your case

Or selling my doge quickly in my case we both earned money.

It simply proves we are human. I earned 20k with the gpus.

So the 60k doge is now 80k.
 I have cash
 I have no debt
I have good power setup for next year.

Here is another what if.
I had a 90 free s9 offer for april 2020.

My wife was sick from covid.
I had just recovered from covid.
The usa was shutting down due to covid.
I did not have space to mine those s9s
I turned it down.
A loss now that we look back at it 13 months later.
But I wanted to find a way to make up for it and in April 2020 I starting adding gpus.
And I started taking all gpu earnings and buying most of those doge.
We had mined some. I was able to continue the l3+ mining. Viabtc bumped the doge from 1000 to 2000 for each ltc coin mined.

So the loss of 90 free s9s
Allowed the doge to get to 1000000 vs 400000 coins
And the eventual gpu setup that now earns 9k along with the continued l3+ that makes 1.4k + 3.6k or 5k

So yeah it gets complex if you try to pull one thing and say it was wrong.


This is philipma1957 alt. Do not conduct business  with this account
FloridaKid
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 125
Merit: 10


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 06:40:57 PM
 #36

For me it's not really over until it's finally over, it's been a long time since I've been hearing about the dead of GPU mining most especially on Ethereum network but it never happened, same way people believe that Bitcoin will die lol, if ETH is out of PoW then we have other coins as well

philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3024
Merit: 3224



View Profile
May 01, 2021, 06:54:23 PM
 #37

For me it's not really over until it's finally over, it's been a long time since I've been hearing about the dead of GPU mining most especially on Ethereum network but it never happened, same way people believe that Bitcoin will die lol, if ETH is out of PoW then we have other coins as well

Well as much as gpu companies pretend they do not like miners. 

They do.

So they have an interest in coin development.

To me Amd has a real interest if they combine an amd cpu and an amd gpu as the only way to mine AMDCPUGPU coin algo.

I would think it would work well.

AMD-DUAL-MINER-ALGO seems like something looking to be invented.




I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
arielbit
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2534
Merit: 1033


View Profile
May 01, 2021, 08:57:57 PM
Last edit: May 01, 2021, 09:14:03 PM by arielbit
 #38

For me it's not really over until it's finally over, it's been a long time since I've been hearing about the dead of GPU mining most especially on Ethereum network but it never happened, same way people believe that Bitcoin will die lol, if ETH is out of PoW then we have other coins as well

Well as much as gpu companies pretend they do not like miners.  

They do.

So they have an interest in coin development.

To me Amd has a real interest if they combine an amd cpu and an amd gpu as the only way to mine AMDCPUGPU coin algo.

I would think it would work well.

AMD-DUAL-MINER-ALGO seems like something looking to be invented.





when PC took a huge chunk of gaming hardware sales from consoles, they want a cut from the profit from games.

now there is a market with ASIC and FPGA companies as competitors. they obviously want a cut from crypto mining profits.

but the tricky part is algo that can be ASIC'd and FPGA'd and algo change/alter. games on the other hand are games since the beginning until the end. gpu companies are watching but are not trying to be overexposed for the mean time

even if an algo is good for a certain gpu/cpu company. it is the coin that decides if there is money to be made, ETH is a defi/ponzi fest/scam fest/casino/hack fest/ etc.. a coin that is mining for the sake of "validating transactions" is soooo "ASIC"

that's why exchangers casino like binance and ftx are soooo into platform defi/ponzi fest/scam fest/casino/hack fest/ ...talking about BNB and solana---go gamble some more, and ponzi some more hehehe.


I have an idea for the future... a multi ponziverse blockchain oligarchy.

these technocratic overlords like AMD and NVIDIA make their own coin that will be mined efficiently by their proprietary hardware...or ASIC companies will get there first? exchangers already started it, maybe the hardware manufacturers should go into defi/ponzi fest/scam fest/casino/hack fest/ mode.


Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!