How do you guys feel about the Boeing 737 MAX?

[Ciscopro2000]

Will you or have you refused to fly on one?  Any pilots out there that can give us information on the characteristics of this new plane? 

[TECSHARE]

I am not a pilot or any expert on this situation, but I have had interest in this issue considering the close proximity of the Boeing headquarters to me. Apparently there was an "optional safety feature" which would automatically cause the plane to correct course by nosing down, and if the pilot did not have the correct training they could be stuck in a very dangerous situation without knowing how to resolve the problem, as has been the case several times. Other pilots who did know the systems still found difficulty coping with this "feature", but because of their training were at least able to land safely.

As far as I am aware this has been something pilots have been warning about for some time. On a speculative note, I have a feeling there may have been some sabotage/espionage involved here, as there are a lot of HUGE contracts on the table right now where Boeing and Airbus are in tight competition for orders, and as you can imagine those contracts are worth tremendous amounts of money. In summary, regardless of what is the direct cause, this is very bad news for Boeing.

[Beerwizzard]

I don't know much details about the current situation but I remember that back in 2005 Boeing had some serious financial problems and in one day it was uncovered that their engineer died from peritonitis after anal sex with a horse.
Maybe now people should dig dipper and check what their engineers are doing today?

[Malsetid]

Will you or have you refused to fly on one?  Any pilots out there that can give us information on the characteristics of this new plane? 

Two accidents in that little time is a huge bump for boeing snd i'd admit i would reslly consider just refunding my flight tickets if i'm informed i'd be flying in one of those 737 maxs. People would say that it's unlikely to have three accident for the same kind of plane so it should be safe. I'd say the people who died in the second flight were thinking of the same thing.

[kooboat]

Well, I don't know much about aircrafts or aeroplanes. In recent times looking at the many  air crash happening with the recent one being the Ethiopian Airlines. It is becoming more scary to fly in one of these latest brands of aeroplanes. It seems a bad omen has been attached to it and is really scaring for some passengers.

[OgNasty]

I haven't flown much since TSA went a little 'nuts' with the pat downs (pun intended).  That being said, I would be a little apprehensive about getting on a 737 MAX right now.

[LTU_btc]

I'm not aviation expert, so I don't have enough knowledge to talk about this plane. But 2 crashes in short time and some small accidents is definitely looks strange and suspicious considering that's new model of Boeing. Now I can't remember similar cases about other models where new planes got crashed soon after it's been released. In aviation it's common that plane can be used for 20-25 yearsand even more, so it looks strange that 737 MAX model may be not reliable and safe to use.
If I would have to fly with this model, probably I wouldn't refuse, but I imagine that I wouldn't feel calm and safe during flight.

[Spendulus]

Will you or have you refused to fly on one?  Any pilots out there that can give us information on the characteristics of this new plane? 

My understanding is that it is not the "airplane," but the rules set in the software of the autopilot.

The rules prevent the pilot from taking over and flying the plane manually in some circumstances, within the time frame that is required for successful recovery.

That's of course a recipe for disaster.

[Artemis3]

As far as i know the MAX was grounded by Boeing themselves. There appears to be a problem with the MCAS "feature", which is only present on this variant. Until they find out and fix this problem, this plane variant (not the rest of the 737s) should remain grounded until they figure out how to fix the problems.

Boeing has already lost important contracts by this mishap, China in particular wants nothing with it anymore and signed with Airbus already.

So what were they thinking? Its a slight modification to the 737 to use larger engines, which are mounted higher and further forward and push stronger the nose up which tends to stall the plane, so they devised this extra "safety feature" to prevent the pilots from letting the plane nose go up uncontrolled. Unfortunately this seems counter-intuitive to what the pilots are used to, which could make the opposite result. Even with training this plane is difficult to fly it appears, even for seasoned 737 pilots. There also appears to be problem with a sensor which could trigger the auto nose down feature improperly.

[eaLiTy]

Will you or have you refused to fly on one?  Any pilots out there that can give us information on the characteristics of this new plane? 

I am not sure whether you will be having the option of selecting which model of airplane you wanted to travel and if you refuse to fly you wont be getting any refunds, it completely comes down to pilot training and the manual does not instruct certain emergency maneuvers and that caused the crash from the reports i have seen.

[r1s2g3]

it completely comes down to pilot training and the manual does not instruct certain emergency maneuvers and that caused the crash from the reports i have seen.

In today's world , plane software is fully capable of flying the plane itself except for takeoff and landing that is still the pilot responsibility.
There is so much the software do that if software fails then pilot are really clueless and they have to take all decision in few minutes and for the situation that never occurred  on their training.

If you watch some Mayday air crash investigation then you see sometime how confusing and fast the situation arises.

[Artemis3]

it completely comes down to pilot training and the manual does not instruct certain emergency maneuvers and that caused the crash from the reports i have seen.

In today's world , plane software is fully capable of flying the plane itself except for takeoff and landing that is still the pilot responsibility.
There is so much the software do that if software fails then pilot are really clueless and they have to take all decision in few minutes and for the situation that never occurred  on their training.

If you watch some Mayday air crash investigation then you see sometime how confusing and fast the situation arises.

Unfortunately these automated systems depend a lot on the sensors, and there have been accidents because the sensors have been impaired. The human pilots also get their readings from them, and sometimes acted wrong thinking the sensors were right when visibility was poor (ie. night storm).

They are supposed to be redundant, placed in different places and use different methods but extreme situations have occurred, and not every pilot happens to be a former military pilot able to fix the (untrained for) situation (tho that has occurred too). It used to be more Airbus but clearly Boeing is now in the same game with automated flying.

The investigation could prove that even with proper training, the plane was not acting correctly under all conditions, especially if the sensor issue is confirmed. I think not too far in the future the planes will fly themselves, but these things need to be ironed out first, and it might take decades. Not sure AI would help, time and experimentation should tell.

[semobo]

Will you or have you refused to fly on one?  Any pilots out there that can give us information on the characteristics of this new plane? 

I travelled many times on Boeing flights but not sure about the model you were mentioning,May I know whats wrong with it?

[Artemis3]

Will you or have you refused to fly on one?  Any pilots out there that can give us information on the characteristics of this new plane? 

I travelled many times on Boeing flights but not sure about the model you were mentioning,May I know whats wrong with it?

Are you not aware of the drama unfolded by the recent crashes of a couple of 737 MAX?

Boeing 737 MAX groundings

In March 2019, airlines and governments around the world grounded the Boeing 737 MAX passenger airliner after two crashes of the aircraft within five months killed all 346 people onboard both flights. On October 29, 2018, Lion Air Flight 610 crashed into the Java Sea twelve minutes after takeoff with 189 passengers and crew. On March 10, 2019, Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 crashed six minutes after takeoff with 157 passengers and crew.

In each accident, the aircraft was less than four months old. Satellite tracking data showed similar flight profiles, which indicated that soon after takeoff both airplanes pitched down multiple times and experienced extreme fluctuations in upward and downward speed, as the pilots evidently struggled for control. Both pilots radioed their intention to return to the airport. Attention quickly focused on an automated anti-stall flight control system, "MCAS", newly introduced on the 737 MAX.

[Spendulus]

....
Unfortunately these automated systems depend a lot on the sensors, and there have been accidents because the sensors have been impaired. The human pilots also get their readings from them, and sometimes acted wrong thinking the sensors were right when visibility was poor (ie. night storm).
....

let this be a warning for those who think automated cars are near...

This situation reminds me of the political truism, "Let no crisis go to waste."

First, there is an issue with an autopilots programming in two third rate airlines, leading to crashes.

Second, the integrity of the 373 Max comes to be questioned.

Now, the question has drifted to question the entire Boeing product line.

[semobo]

Will you or have you refused to fly on one?  Any pilots out there that can give us information on the characteristics of this new plane?  

I travelled many times on Boeing flights but not sure about the model you were mentioning,May I know whats wrong with it?

Are you not aware of the drama unfolded by the recent crashes of a couple of 737 MAX?

Boeing 737 MAX groundings

In March 2019, airlines and governments around the world grounded the Boeing 737 MAX passenger airliner after two crashes of the aircraft within five months killed all 346 people onboard both flights. On October 29, 2018, Lion Air Flight 610 crashed into the Java Sea twelve minutes after takeoff with 189 passengers and crew. On March 10, 2019, Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 crashed six minutes after takeoff with 157 passengers and crew.

In each accident, the aircraft was less than four months old. Satellite tracking data showed similar flight profiles, which indicated that soon after takeoff both airplanes pitched down multiple times and experienced extreme fluctuations in upward and downward speed, as the pilots evidently struggled for control. Both pilots radioed their intention to return to the airport. Attention quickly focused on an automated anti-stall flight control system, "MCAS", newly introduced on the 737 MAX.

I need to get updated myself with the world news as well.

I am concentrating too much on the prices of crypto currencies,that is why I didn't get much attention about these crashes.

[Spendulus]

it completely comes down to pilot training and the manual does not instruct certain emergency maneuvers and that caused the crash from the reports i have seen.

In today's world , plane software is fully capable of flying the plane itself except for takeoff and landing that is still the pilot responsibility.
There is so much the software do that if software fails then pilot are really clueless and they have to take all decision in few minutes and for the situation that never occurred  on their training.

If you watch some Mayday air crash investigation then you see sometime how confusing and fast the situation arises.

Unfortunately these automated systems depend a lot on the sensors, and there have been accidents because the sensors have been impaired. The human pilots also get their readings from them, and sometimes acted wrong thinking the sensors were right when visibility was poor (ie. night storm).

They are supposed to be redundant, placed in different places and use different methods but extreme situations have occurred, and not every pilot happens to be a former military pilot able to fix the (untrained for) situation (tho that has occurred too). It used to be more Airbus but clearly Boeing is now in the same game with automated flying.

The investigation could prove that even with proper training, the plane was not acting correctly under all conditions, especially if the sensor issue is confirmed. I think not too far in the future the planes will fly themselves, but these things need to be ironed out first, and it might take decades. Not sure AI would help, time and experimentation should tell.

The faulty sensor has been confirmed. Realistically there is no way pilots of a third world third rate airline should be expected to have training on these types of recovery procedures. There's a reason they are called "third rate."

[Artemis3]

Read this article, its very informative:

ET302 used the Cut-Out switches to stop MCAS

Also scroll down at the comments section.

It seems the established emergency procedure for this situation wasn't effective and could not prevent the crashes.


Boeing 737 Max 8 crash: Pilots followed expected procedures | DW News

[TECSHARE]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-07/multiple-chinese-boeing-787s-grounded-after-gps-rollover-glitch

This problem was known for a long time. This seems to me like politically motivated leveraging in order to purposely target US manufacturing, specifically one that does a lot of military contracting. As I said before I think there may be some form of sabotage involved in these crashes in addition to poor design.

[unocash]

I think any technological society will reach a point where the smartest technologists decide they have more ineresting things to do. Beyond that point, all technology begins to collapse as the smartest people are no longer leading technological progress, and technology is left to less intelligent, less motivated people.

Im stating this because I think the Boeing 737 MAX represents "Peak Technology". We go back own from hereon.