On the importance for nazis, commies and all extremists to stop fighting

[mOgliE]

Hey people,

Now you probably heard about the Yellow Vests protests that have been happening in Europe, especially heated in France.

I've been in those protests, and there was something incredible. During the fights against the cops I've been helped by a monarchist. A motherfucking monarchist. And while running away from a charge, when regrouping to counterattack, I found myself in the middle of what was clearly an extreme right group. And we charged together.

I'm a motherfucking commie. I'm 100% Marxist, Das Kapital is my Bible and I hate Adam Smith to the guts.

But there was something incredible in those protests. Where you stood on the political specter didn't matter, you were just a part of the population trying to fight against the dictatorship we call government.



I think there is something extremely important we need to understand: extreme right and extreme left are no longer ennemies. Well of course they are, but they have a worse common ennemy to fight.

We fall under the same laws of censorship. We are suppressed, muted, attacked, emprisonned equally by the people currently in power. We hate the same system, we just don't want to replace it the same way.
But you know what? I think that a protectionnist really free capitalism is still better than the corrupted shit we have. And extreme right must realize that a socialist state is still better than the corrupted shit we have.

We're under the rule of a "capitalism for the rich and the profits, socialism for the poors and the costs". In a really capitalist state the banks wouldn't have survived their mistakes. In a really socialist state, the banks wouldn't have survived their failure either.

I hate to see people like Macron or Hillary getting the support from the far left because "at least they're not racist protectionnists". And I hate seeing them getting the support from the far right because "at least they're not socialists". Depending on who they're challenging in election.

I'd vote Trump against Hillary every day. I'd vote Le Pen against Macron every day.
I wish extreme right would vote Senders against Hillary every day. And Melanchon against Macron every day.


I don't think we can win while continuing fighting each other. We got a common ennemy. Let's tear it down then we'll see how we handle our society.

[1715078418]

1715078418

[TECSHARE]

While your finger is on the crux of the issue, the division of the populace (divide and conquer), I still think you have not looked critically enough at the ideologies you espouse to realize many of the problems you list here are a direct result of these ideologies. This whole concept of the "rise of the right" is really just a reaction to the excesses of the left. Right wing extremists were well into the minority pretty much world wide until the left shifted The Overton Window so far to the left that formerly classic liberals are suddenly lumped in with the "far right". This right wing populist movement WAS CREATED by the excesses of the left. Now that people are finally standing their ground, the left wail and gnash their teeth over what they see as a right wing takeover, when they are simply attempting to correct an obviously failing course.

A good analogy I think most people here would understand.... think about the value of Bitcoin. When the exchange rate goes up is Bitcoin really raising in value? No, what is actually happening is that trust in the classic banking system and fiat money is failing, as a result people are willing to pay more dollars for the same amount of Bitcoin. Bitcoin in this case is a store of value mush as gold is, and as the currencies inflate and lose buying power, Bitcoin and gold maintain the buying power it had. This inversion of logic, inverting and conflating the context with the subject is at the crux of these issues.

Again, I agree that this divide and conquer strategy must be stopped at all costs, and this is exactly the strategy the corrupt elite have been undertaking to make sure we are fighting each other and not them, but one of these groups has institutional power, and the other doesn't. I find it hard to blame those with the boot of these institutions on their throats for simply fighting to survive.

[Beerwizzard]

My friend visited Paris 3 times in different years and every time something went wrong because he faced different protests. France has always been one of the most leftist countries in EU. It seems to be a long French tradition to come out to the streets and scream different bullshit. Now it is pretty clear that you faced a political crisis.
Your current government is obviously bad but it is definetely a bad idea to support the opposite faction that would like to see you dead / in jail in case they get power in their hands. That's how it often happens after revolutions.

[mOgliE]

I find it hard to blame those with the boot of these institutions on their throats for simply fighting to survive.

There seems to be a major misunderstanding or a mind blowing conspiracy theory here.

You seem to believe that communists, or at least let's say socialists have the power?

My friend visited Paris 3 times in different years and every time something went wrong because he faced different protests. France has always been one of the most leftist countries in EU. It seems to be a long French tradition to come out to the streets and scream different bullshit. Now it is pretty clear that you faced a political crisis.
Your current government is obviously bad but it is definetely a bad idea to support the opposite faction that would like to see you dead / in jail in case they get power in their hands. That's how it often happens after revolutions.

Because in the last 50 years France has seen nothing but more and more globalist policies.

So both extreme right and extreme left are more and more angry as our country gets stolen from us by banks and big corporations.

Knowing our history, it won't go better.

[TECSHARE]

My friend visited Paris 3 times in different years and every time something went wrong because he faced different protests. France has always been one of the most leftist countries in EU. It seems to be a long French tradition to come out to the streets and scream different bullshit. Now it is pretty clear that you faced a political crisis.
Your current government is obviously bad but it is definetely a bad idea to support the opposite faction that would like to see you dead / in jail in case they get power in their hands. That's how it often happens after revolutions.

This is a very good point that I don't think the little kiddies waving Communist flags and playing revolutionary understand. Historically in leftist revolutions, the first thing they do after taking power is to kill all the revolutionaries that got them there. Don't forget when they start building that pile of bodies, the "revolutionaries" will form its foundation.

[mOgliE]

This is a very good point that I don't think the little kiddies waving Communist flags and playing revolutionary understand. Historically in leftist revolutions, the first thing they do after taking power is to kill all the revolutionaries that got them there. Don't forget when they start building that pile of bodies, the "revolutionaries" will form its foundation.

In all revolutions. The side doesn't matter.

What you're talking about is the transformation of a revolutionnary state into a dictatorship. One of the leader of the revolution, whatever the revolution, will seize the power in the hand and the country will go from revolutionnary state to absolute rule of this person and his group.

It has been the case with French revolution of 1789, with Hitler, with Staline, Iran...

Revolution tends to lead to dictatorship.

[TECSHARE]

I find it hard to blame those with the boot of these institutions on their throats for simply fighting to survive.

There seems to be a major misunderstanding or a mind blowing conspiracy theory here.

You seem to believe that communists, or at least let's say socialists have the power?

My friend visited Paris 3 times in different years and every time something went wrong because he faced different protests. France has always been one of the most leftist countries in EU. It seems to be a long French tradition to come out to the streets and scream different bullshit. Now it is pretty clear that you faced a political crisis.
Your current government is obviously bad but it is definetely a bad idea to support the opposite faction that would like to see you dead / in jail in case they get power in their hands. That's how it often happens after revolutions.

Because in the last 50 years France has seen nothing but more and more globalist policies.

So both extreme right and extreme left are more and more angry as our country gets stolen from us by banks and big corporations.

Knowing our history, it won't go better.

There is both a misunderstanding and a conspiracy, but not a theory, a fact. You seem to think that the corrupt Capitalists and the corrupt Communists are different factions, they are not. They are literally the same people and groups. It is a big puppet show. It is controlled opposition and they have a flavor of shit sandwich for each of us. Western Capitalist bankers LITERALLY CREATED COMMUNISM. They planned it, they engineered it, they funded it, they fostered it, they created it in every sense of the word. It is nothing more than red vs blue, us vs them, republican vs democrat on a global scale.

This is straight out of the Hegelian Dialectic. THESIS - ANTITHESIS = SYNTHESIS also known as PROBLEM - REACTION = SOLUTION

In this case during world war 1 and 2, it was Communism - Nazism = Globalism

They are creating the extremes on both sides so they can pick through the corpses and accumulate control and power by systematically stripping us all of rights, our lives, and our property. We are talking about the same people, you just don't realize it yet. Also if you actually take the time to look over The 10 Planks of Communism I think you will have to admit the world has largely adopted these policies, even if they have a different name for it. Additionally China is arguably the most important economy in the world, and they most certainly have goals for global Communism, and the resources and potential to achieve it. If you were to take a hard look at all of these facts I think you may agree.

[Beerwizzard]

My friend visited Paris 3 times in different years and every time something went wrong because he faced different protests. France has always been one of the most leftist countries in EU. It seems to be a long French tradition to come out to the streets and scream different bullshit. Now it is pretty clear that you faced a political crisis.
Your current government is obviously bad but it is definetely a bad idea to support the opposite faction that would like to see you dead / in jail in case they get power in their hands. That's how it often happens after revolutions.

This is a very good point that I don't think the little kiddies waving Communist flags and playing revolutionary understand. Historically in leftist revolutions, the first thing they do after taking power is to kill all the revolutionaries that got them there. Don't forget when they start building that pile of bodies, the "revolutionaries" will form its foundation.

Well, literally every revolution ends up the same way but leftist revolution are the craziest ones. I just want to att a couple examples:
1. In Russia communist got their power after the revolution. Then during the civil war they killed everyone who supported any other ideology (even the ones that are very close to communism) despite the fact that those people fought along them during the revolution.
2. Revolution in Cambodia gave power to one of the most insane retards that humanity has ever seen. The point is that Cambodgian commies were building a community that was very close to the one represented in Marx's books. No one could build a more exceptional communism. This ended up with a genocide of their own people (up to one third of the population) and fast degradation of society.

[mOgliE]

Wahou wahou wahou. Ok this is heavy. I'll try to go bit by bit.

There is both a misunderstanding and a conspiracy, but not a theory, a fact. You seem to think that the corrupt Capitalists and the corrupt Communists are different factions, they are not.

No I agree with that. It just that I call both of them globalists because that they are left wing corrupted bitches or right wing corrupted bitches don't really matter. But they're not capitalists or communists. They're just assholes who obey banks and big corporations.

They are literally the same people and groups. It is a big puppet show. It is controlled opposition and they have a flavor of shit sandwich for each of us. Western Capitalist bankers LITERALLY CREATED COMMUNISM. They planned it, they engineered it, they funded it, they fostered it, they created it in every sense of the word. It is nothing more than red vs blue, us vs them, republican vs democrat on a global scale.

This is straight out of the Hegelian Dialectic. THESIS - ANTITHESIS = SYNTHESIS also known as PROBLEM - REACTION = SOLUTION

In this case during world war 1 and 2, it was Communism - Nazism = Globalism

Wtf?
I don't get your point. You're trying to say that globalism is the evolution of capitalism and nazism?

They are creating the extremes on both sides so they can pick through the corpses and accumulate control and power by systematically stripping us all of rights, our lives, and our property. We are talking about the same people, you just don't realize it yet. Also if you actually take the time to look over The 10 Planks of Communism I think you will have to admit the world has largely adopted these policies, even if they have a different name for it.

Well no, not at all. And you site shows well how it hasn't. Maybe we need another thread to discuss it though as it's not really on topic.

Additionally China is arguably the most important economy in the world, and they most certainly have goals for global Communism, and the resources and potential to achieve it. If you were to take a hard look at all of these facts I think you may agree.

This is highly debatable. Especially when you consider that China hasn't really a communist economy.


You seem to say that globalism = communism 2.0. Ok but I can in the same way say that globalism = capitalism 2.0. Globalism is an evolution where poors and small companies are taxed to be sure that rich people and big corporations don't take any risk. That's neither capitalism or globalism. That's the worst of both world.


Here is what communism is:
A system where everything can be owned or controlled by the people.
Now please show me a country where it is the case.

Here what capitalism is:
A system in which freedom of market is as absolute as possible.
Again there is nowhere where it is done.

None of those ideas have been put in practice ever. Saying that globalism is communism is as false as saying that globalism is capitalism.

[mOgliE]

Well, literally every revolution ends up the same way but leftist revolution are the craziest ones. I just want to att a couple examples:
1. In Russia communist got their power after the revolution. Then during the civil war they killed everyone who supported any other ideology (even the ones that are very close to communism) despite the fact that those people fought along them during the revolution.
2. Revolution in Cambodia gave power to one of the most insane retards that humanity has ever seen. The point is that Cambodgian commies were building a community that was very close to the one represented in Marx's books. No one could build a more exceptional communism. This ended up with a genocide of their own people (up to one third of the population) and fast degradation of society.

Yeah well it's not like we don't have examples of crazy right wing revolutions.

1/ In France the French Revolution of 1789 led to motherfucking Napoleon and the biggest war until WW1

2/ The 1871 French failed revolution led to a right wing total control where right wings gave up their own country to the German and actively helped the ennemy country to destroy their own army. This was so surprising that the Keiser didn't understand what he could do. The same thing happened after Hitler invasion.

Every revolution tends to lead to dictatorship and political opponent massacre.

[TECSHARE]

Wahou wahou wahou. Ok this is heavy. I'll try to go bit by bit.

There is both a misunderstanding and a conspiracy, but not a theory, a fact. You seem to think that the corrupt Capitalists and the corrupt Communists are different factions, they are not.

No I agree with that. It just that I call both of them globalists because that they are left wing corrupted bitches or right wing corrupted bitches don't really matter. But they're not capitalists or communists. They're just assholes who obey banks and big corporations.

They are literally the same people and groups. It is a big puppet show. It is controlled opposition and they have a flavor of shit sandwich for each of us. Western Capitalist bankers LITERALLY CREATED COMMUNISM. They planned it, they engineered it, they funded it, they fostered it, they created it in every sense of the word. It is nothing more than red vs blue, us vs them, republican vs democrat on a global scale.

This is straight out of the Hegelian Dialectic. THESIS - ANTITHESIS = SYNTHESIS also known as PROBLEM - REACTION = SOLUTION

In this case during world war 1 and 2, it was Communism - Nazism = Globalism

Wtf?
I don't get your point. You're trying to say that globalism is the evolution of capitalism and nazism?

They are creating the extremes on both sides so they can pick through the corpses and accumulate control and power by systematically stripping us all of rights, our lives, and our property. We are talking about the same people, you just don't realize it yet. Also if you actually take the time to look over The 10 Planks of Communism I think you will have to admit the world has largely adopted these policies, even if they have a different name for it.

Well no, not at all. And you site shows well how it hasn't. Maybe we need another thread to discuss it though as it's not really on topic.

Additionally China is arguably the most important economy in the world, and they most certainly have goals for global Communism, and the resources and potential to achieve it. If you were to take a hard look at all of these facts I think you may agree.

This is highly debatable. Especially when you consider that China hasn't really a communist economy.


You seem to say that globalism = communism 2.0. Ok but I can in the same way say that globalism = capitalism 2.0. Globalism is an evolution where poors and small companies are taxed to be sure that rich people and big corporations don't take any risk. That's neither capitalism or globalism. That's the worst of both world.


Here is what communism is:
A system where everything can be owned or controlled by the people.
Now please show me a country where it is the case.

Here what capitalism is:
A system in which freedom of market is as absolute as possible.
Again there is nowhere where it is done.

None of those ideas have been put in practice ever. Saying that globalism is communism is as false as saying that globalism is capitalism.

Please stop using lazy quotes... I don't want to have to constantly fix your mess to reply.

Globalism is the synthesis of the right vs the left. You pick whatever words you want to call it (since you are doing that anyway changing my words). It is two opposing sides using a false pretext to achieve the synthesis of globalism.

Regarding the website you are clearly only seeing what you want to see, and this is where you become the fat man at a football match criticizing the professional athletes. You want to claim you are right but you are too lazy to even take the time to read a single page, instead opting for just rebuking me in a refractory manner with no substantiation of your own.

China is ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY Communist, economically and otherwise. The fact that you think it is not frankly is a shameful public display of your willful ignorance.

No, you just pointing the finger back at Capitalism is not the same. I have sources, facts, and history this is what you have...



If this is going to be your usual lazy standard then you can just expect more of the usual from me. Take some time to go over what I told you critically instead of just knee jerk reacting. I have dedicated large amounts of time towards learning the ideologies you espouse, you might want to actually learn about what you claim to support yourself. Now it is your turn to make the effort. Or just continue to be the fat man at the football match, it is up to you.

[mOgliE]

Globalism is the synthesis of the right vs the left. You pick whatever words you want to call it (since you are doing that anyway changing my words). It is two opposing sides using a false pretext to achieve the synthesis of globalism.

Ok. So?
If globalism is the synthesis of right vs left it means it is not the left no?

[TECSHARE]

Globalism is the synthesis of the right vs the left. You pick whatever words you want to call it (since you are doing that anyway changing my words). It is two opposing sides using a false pretext to achieve the synthesis of globalism.

Ok. So?
If globalism is the synthesis of right vs left it means it is not the left no?

If I swing a hammer and a sickle at you to try to force you through a door, do they become any less of a hammer or a sickle?

[mOgliE]

Globalism is the synthesis of the right vs the left. You pick whatever words you want to call it (since you are doing that anyway changing my words). It is two opposing sides using a false pretext to achieve the synthesis of globalism.

Ok. So?
If globalism is the synthesis of right vs left it means it is not the left no?

If I swing a hammer and a sickle at you to try to force you through a door, do they become any less of a hammer or a sickle?

I'm sorry I try but I don't understand. I honestly try. I'll go simple question by simple question.

Are you saying that communism = globalism?

[TECSHARE]

Globalism is the synthesis of the right vs the left. You pick whatever words you want to call it (since you are doing that anyway changing my words). It is two opposing sides using a false pretext to achieve the synthesis of globalism.

Ok. So?
If globalism is the synthesis of right vs left it means it is not the left no?

If I swing a hammer and a sickle at you to try to force you through a door, do they become any less of a hammer or a sickle?

I'm sorry I try but I don't understand. I honestly try. I'll go simple question by simple question.

Are you saying that communism = globalism?

Communism is totally compatible with globalism. Furthermore global policy has been pushing further and further into Communist policies. If you want to understand actually go read some of the source material I presented you and think about it instead of just demanding I spoon feed you then spitting it out when you don't like the taste.

[mOgliE]

Communism is totally compatible with globalism. Furthermore global policy has been pushing further and further into Communist policies. If you want to understand actually go read some of the source material I presented you and think about it instead of just demanding I spoon feed you then spitting it out when you don't like the taste.

Problem is that I've read some of the sources you've given like this one:
https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sutton_Wall_Street_and_the_bolshevik_revolution-5.pdf

Where there conclusion has absolutely 0 evidence. They conclude that wall street supports Bolchevick Revolution in the hope to spread communism every where. Yeah ok but there are no proof of that...

or this one:
http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

Which as I stated in another thread is completely crazy. They litterally write that inheritance taxation is the same as abollition of inheritance rights. What can you say when someone tells you that 2 = 1?

[theymos]

"Nazis and commies" are typically extremely authoritarian, so if either of them actually gained power, the result would be severe oppression and the elimination of all political rivals. The status quo is pretty bad, and part of me hopes that the yellow vests manage to tear it all down (somehow), but replacing the status quo with an even more authoritarian regime wouldn't be an improvement.

Maybe the two sides could get together and agree to some sort of actual anarchism (not the weird doublethink kind that some communists ascribe to), like the system described in The Machinery of Freedom. Or you could split the country into far-left and far-right states, but allow for free movement between them so people can go to the side that they prefer and/or the side that works better.

[mOgliE]

Or you could split the country into far-left and far-right states, but allow for free movement between them so people can go to the side that they prefer and/or the side that works better.

OMFG

That is some hard uthopian/dysthopian shit you have here.

I'll have to read your anarchist guide but it seems to me that anarchism is fundamentally in a non stable state.


Still the idea of my country divided in Nazi France and Communist France is pretty fun xD
Would love to see that from a theoretical point of view. 0 Chance of it happening of course.


Both far right and far left are oppression systems but I think you can remodel both of them to have something not really oppressive. Far left by installing direct democracy and free weapons (so big government but also powerful people). For far right I have no idea though.

[BADecker]

Well, literally every revolution ends up the same way but leftist revolution are the craziest ones. I just want to att a couple examples:
1. In Russia communist got their power after the revolution. Then during the civil war they killed everyone who supported any other ideology (even the ones that are very close to communism) despite the fact that those people fought along them during the revolution.
2. Revolution in Cambodia gave power to one of the most insane retards that humanity has ever seen. The point is that Cambodgian commies were building a community that was very close to the one represented in Marx's books. No one could build a more exceptional communism. This ended up with a genocide of their own people (up to one third of the population) and fast degradation of society.

Yeah well it's not like we don't have examples of crazy right wing revolutions.

1/ In France the French Revolution of 1789 led to motherfucking Napoleon and the biggest war until WW1

2/ The 1871 French failed revolution led to a right wing total control where right wings gave up their own country to the German and actively helped the ennemy country to destroy their own army. This was so surprising that the Keiser didn't understand what he could do. The same thing happened after Hitler invasion.

Every revolution tends to lead to dictatorship and political opponent massacre.

But there are some revolutions that lead to dictatorship slowly. Like the USA revolution back in 1776.

[theymos]

0 Chance of it happening of course.

Sure, with that kind of attitude.

I'm not fighting on the streets, and I'm on the other side of the world, so probably my thoughts here don't mean much, but if I were you I'd make it my #1 priority to get an ambitious but solid plan together amongst all yellow-vest stakeholders for what you want to accomplish and how to do it. Quite possibly, a left-right coalition is possible without compromising anyone's principles as long as you're willing to define exactly where your common ground is and where exactly you want to work together. From what I've heard, there is consensus on having more referenda, which is a start, but honestly this isn't very ambitious, and I doubt that it'd change much. Having an end goal of a multi-state federation might be one way to get huge changes via a left-right coalition, though I'm sure there are many other ideas.

If you have a dozen groups just thrashing against a vaguely-defined status quo for vaguely-defined goals, you're not going to get anywhere, and in fact you just give more credibility to the status quo.

installing direct democracy and free weapons (so big government but also powerful people).

Interesting idea, though IMO that'd end up being an Orwellian groupthink state where every imaginable minority is eventually persecuted.

Direct democracy is problematic in many ways, but most obviously because you can't actually vote on every little thing, even with technology. It isn't practical to vote on every proposed line in a trade agreement which most people won't even understand, for example. So you end up delegating, especially on the decision of which things warrant a vote, and this creates a bureaucratic class which really controls everything. This is basically how General Secretary Stalin came to be a dictator.