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Author Topic: Reputation problems as a new DT1 User  (Read 346 times)
willi9974
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April 07, 2019, 09:57:36 PM
 #1

Hello community,

I got the DT1 status at the last update and became by my mistake a negative trust and withdrawal of some trust (link to topic "DefaultTrust changes"  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.msg50463710#msg50463710).

As described in the post (DefaultTrust changes), I did not know that I was DT1 and that I can not put every trade partner on my trust list. In the past every successful trade was worth a positive trust entry, which I now know was not right.

Now the whole system is more trasparent and aware of what it does.

Since I have many escrow trades and is highly appreciated by the German community, it would be very nice if my feedback is also seen as a DT1 user and my Reputation is fine.

Would you please take me back from your distrusted list.

@all in the below Distrusted List, that would be a fine move from all member he put me in this context on the disstrusted list, to remove me from the distrusted list, since I did not do anything wrong and it happened only of my mistake. The problem was recognized by me and also cleaned up my trust list.


~willi9974 is Distrusted by:
1. Lauda (Trust: 300: -0 / +31) (DT1! (23) 868 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. EcuaMobi (Trust: 173: -0 / +18) (DT1! (6) 257 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. suchmoon (Trust: 61: -0 / +11) (DT1! (41) 1868 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. Quickseller (Trust: -8178: -13 / +14) (418 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. actmyname (Trust: 137: -0 / +16) (DT1! (25) 431 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. DarkStar_ (Trust: 256: -0 / +29) (DT1! (28) 668 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. Hhampuz (Trust: 356: -0 / +38) (DT1! (29) 812 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)



PS: Sorry for my bad English, it's not the best :-)

Best regards
Willi

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April 07, 2019, 10:09:35 PM
 #2

I received a PM from the OP asking me to remove the distrust. I ask him to create this thread so I can hear the opinions of others and their rationale.

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April 07, 2019, 10:22:19 PM
 #3

I received a PM from the OP asking me to remove the distrust. I ask him to create this thread so I can hear the opinions of others and their rationale.

I think his reputation has been tarnished now. Judging by the number of high ranked accounts who now Distrust him I presume his DT1 stay will be a short lived one - i.e. he’ll be removed at the next update.

I probably don’t think he was being particularly malicious or untrustworthy by including those users in his trust list IF as he claims he has done business/trades with them but he shouldn’t be on DT1 now because of it.

You did the right thing by asking him to create a thread QS Smiley

@ Willi - Those posters have distrusted you, it doesn’t mean they don’t trust you as such. It means they don’t trust your judgement on who you deem trustworthy & I think they are justified in doing that.

Sorry.




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April 07, 2019, 10:39:42 PM
 #4

As described in the post (DefaultTrust changes), I did not know that I was DT1 and that I can not put every trade partner on my trust list. In the past every successful trade was worth a positive trust entry, which I now know was not right.

We cannot allow ignorance or obscurity to be an excuse.

"Yes your honor I did kick that dog, but I didn't know it was wrong, and I'm no one important."

History has shown on this forum you will go further if you accept your mistakes rather than try and excuse them.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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April 07, 2019, 11:31:39 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2), LFC_Bitcoin (1)
 #5

As reference here is the former trust list of OP compared with his new one (he wasn't aware that his trust list as DT1 selects DT2 now when he was set on DT1):

Old:

willi9974 Trusts:
1. Lincoln6Echo (Trust: 140: -0 / +14) (27 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. Gyrsur (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (102 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. Milquetoast (Trust: 20: -0 / +2) (12 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. Queenvio (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (15 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. Sophokles (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. tom04137 (Trust: 20: -0 / +2) (2 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. Wed (Trust: 23: -0 / +3) (11 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. mxnsch (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. nrg1zer (Trust: 20: -0 / +2) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
10. eneloop (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (40 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
11. Two4D (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
12. lateblooming (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
13. Headrix (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
14. cagrund (Trust: 30: -0 / +3) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
15. Bitze (Trust: 20: -0 / +2) (16 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
16. der_markus (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
17. ammi84 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
18. quer85 (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
19. saugwurm (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (19 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
20. pixmo (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
21. Buchi-88 (Trust: 15: -0 / +2) (68 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
22. yesiam6 (Trust: 16: -0 / +2) (5 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
23. asodinis (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
24. Denizs66 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
25. cryptodevil (Trust: 62: -0 / +7) (DT1! (15) 97 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
26. bachel (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
27. PublicP2poolNode (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (2 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
28. GoogleBit (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (2 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
29. glen123 (Trust: -32: -5 / +0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
30. cryptouser (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
31. jadefalke (Trust: 20: -0 / +2) (13 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
32. RealMalatesta (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
33. ZyTReX (Trust: 20: -0 / +2) (6 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
34. Johnsinkler82 (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
35. Christian1998 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
36. Vaagar (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
37. oliver12 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
38. Real-Duke (Trust: neutral) (35 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
39. ds06 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
40. kettenschutz (Trust: neutral) (1 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
41. blizzen1 (Trust: 20: -0 / +2) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
42. voephilisI (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
43. cincan (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
44. DeNoiser (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
45. winspiral (Trust: -32: -5 / +0) (22 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
46. LoneRangir (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
47. supertee (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (5 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
48. Lutpin (Trust: 0: -1 / +31) (769 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
49. cicip (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
50. maeusi (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (4 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
51. minibit (Trust: 20: -0 / +2) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
52. x3t9fi (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (3 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
53. mamboOo (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
54. MrDJ (Trust: 40: -0 / +4) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
55. kingmoppel (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
56. thiel (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
57. Heardalis (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (10 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
58. worgon12 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
59. TrendFriend (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (1 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
60. Heppe (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
61. KC377 (Trust: Huh: -1 / +3) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
62. mersense (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (1 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
63. Mitarbeiter (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
64. celeborne (Trust: 20: -0 / +2) (8 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
65. emreisik (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
66. gege2000 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
67. belaweb2 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
68. Wuffel83 (Trust: 3: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
69. Empire-Mining (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
70. AnoniX1 (Trust: 4: -0 / +1) (1 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
71. Amazontrading (Trust: 3: -0 / +1) (21 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)


New:

willi9974 Trusts:
1. Lincoln6Echo (Trust: 150: -0 / +15) (28 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. Gyrsur (Trust: neutral) (105 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. Milquetoast (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (12 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. Queenvio (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (15 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. tom04137 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (2 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. Wed (Trust: 13: -0 / +2) (11 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. nrg1zer (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. eneloop (Trust: neutral) (40 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. cagrund (Trust: 20: -0 / +2) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
10. Bitze (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (17 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
11. saugwurm (Trust: neutral) (19 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
12. Buchi-88 (Trust: 5: -0 / +1) (74 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
13. yesiam6 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (5 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
14. cryptodevil (Trust: 63: -0 / +7) (DT1! (15) 97 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
15. jadefalke (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (13 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
16. ZyTReX (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (6 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
17. oliver12 (Trust: 10: -0 / +1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
18. Real-Duke (Trust: neutral) (35 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
19. x3t9fi (Trust: neutral) (3 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Source: http://loyce.club/trust/2019-04-06_Sat_20.17h/216582.html




Previously, I had willi9974 on my trust list because I think displaying his left feedback by default as DT2 would be useful for the German community and I'm still thinking DT2 is deserved for him. He's doing an escrow service for a very long time now and documented successful trades by positive feedback. The problem was that he added everyone to his trust list he left a positive feedback to and that's why his trust list was so inaccurate and not a good idea to have on DT.

However, I had a few PMs with him and he was very communicative about his confusion of left feedback and trust list and he promised to change his trust list so he got the point why he was excluded. Most accounts were added at a time where the old trust system was in place (3 inclusions of DT1) and most likely he never thought to get DT1 that his trust list would matter in any way so I don't assume he wanted to push his trust rating or something similar when he was put on (new) DT1 a few days ago.

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April 07, 2019, 11:38:29 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #6

We cannot allow ignorance or obscurity to be an excuse.
That is certainly true, but I don't think he necessarily did anything wrong as in your example.  My take on this is that he never expected to get onto any level of DT and thus just kept his trust list as if it only mattered to him.  I wouldn't see anything wrong in giving him a shot as long as he knows the significance of keeping a responsible trust list and doesn't have any other things against him that would rule him out as a DT1 candidate.  I haven't seen anything thus far.

Just my opinion.


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April 08, 2019, 12:11:06 AM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #7

I will try to find some time to review willi9974's trust list and ratings before the next DT1 "election" and perhaps remove the exclusion. The reason for it (the exclusion) was this.

Perhaps willi9974 would be better off as a DT2 member but unfortunately there is no easy way to opt out from DT1 (other than to reduce one's trust list to < 10 entries) and once you're excluded from DT1 because of a shoddy trust list then you're not in DT2 either, even if your trust ratings are valuable.

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April 08, 2019, 06:11:39 AM
 #8

Lafu and EcuaMobi wrote me, he took me from the distrust list

Many Thanks
Willi

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April 08, 2019, 07:39:50 AM
 #9

Lafu and EcuaMobi wrote me, he took me from the distrust list

Many Thanks
Willi

Your trust list doesn’t include any other DT1 members. There’s nothing in the rules to say that’s an issue. I just find it a bit weird that you don’t trust any of the forums most trusted posters.

Glad to see you’ve resolved the issue of removing all those untrusted posters from your lost though.




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April 08, 2019, 07:53:08 AM
 #10

I have Lafu in my Trustlist
Other D1 will be add, if i have more contact / touchpoints to D1 User and I thought more about it.

Best Regards
Willi

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April 08, 2019, 08:00:55 AM
Merited by Foxpup (1), EcuaMobi (1)
 #11

unfortunately there is no easy way to opt out from DT1
If desired, a user can request theymos to blacklist him from DT1. Example:
Blacklisted on request Smiley



I think people still confuse Feedback and Trust list:
I encourage anyone to create their own Trust list. Don't confuse your Trust list with Feedback though:
  • Feedback: people you trust (or don't trust: red)
  • Trust list: people who's judgement on others you trust (or don't trust: ~)

And I think I'm not helping with this header:
~willi9974 is Distrusted by:
Should I change this to "willi9974's judgement on others is Distrusted by:"?

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April 08, 2019, 10:15:01 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2), EcuaMobi (1)
 #12

I wouldn't see anything wrong in giving him a shot as long as he knows the significance of keeping a responsible trust list and doesn't have any other things against him that would rule him out as a DT1 candidate.
I do agree with you, and I'm certainly not in favor of excluding people simply because their trust list includes users I do not include or am unfamiliar with. However, every single member on his trust list (including his new "curated" list posted by 1miau above*), has left him positive feedback. Also, with the exception of cryptodevil and Buchi-88, none of these users are either DT1 or trusted by a DT1. Therefore, he is the only person who is granting DT2 status to 17 users who have left him positive trust, therefore massively inflating his own trust score. That seems a bit too much like trust abuse to me, but I'm happy to hear counter arguments.

*This was taken from Loyce's database and so may be outdated at time of posting.

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April 09, 2019, 12:06:18 AM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #13

Lafu and EcuaMobi wrote me, he took me from the distrust list

Many Thanks
Willi
After OP PM'd me I checked his list from my mobile and thought the change he made was much more significant. I see I made a big mistake when comparing willi9974's default trust with vs without him as DT1.

I've now taken more time to analyse it and realized there still are way to many users added by him that have left positive trust to him and have little other reasons to be there. I don't think they deserve to be DT2 and so I've decided to re-exclude willi9974. I can't say he is wrong at deciding whom to add into his list but I do say I strongly disagree with his requirements to add someone as DT2.

Being on DT1 means choosing DT2 users and under that logic I don't think willi9974 should be DT1.

I insist on the suggestion I made soon after this new DT selection method was implemented:
I'd like to propose a change to discourage DT1 members from adding users to DT2 just to improve their own trust:
If a DT2 member is added only by one DT1 user and the former left positive trust to the later then it should not appear as trusted on the DT1's profile.

So in practice the DT1's default trust should not be affected by changes made by that DT1 user to their trust list.

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April 09, 2019, 02:58:35 AM
 #14

I've now taken more time to analyse it and realized there still are way to many users added by him that have left positive trust to him and have little other reasons to be there. I don't think they deserve to be DT2 and so I've decided to re-exclude willi9974. I can't say he is wrong at deciding whom to add into his list but I do say I strongly disagree with his requirements to add someone as DT2.

Being on DT1 means choosing DT2 users and under that logic I don't think willi9974 should be DT1

I echo the sentiments of EcuaMobi after reviewing the users myself.

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April 09, 2019, 11:50:30 AM
 #15

Your trust list and feedback's should be always transparent either you are on DT or not. They had distrusted you means they don't like your feedback's and your own trust list. Seems still excluded(-1) from DT network. I strongly believe still your feedback's isn't transparent like "BTC Run". Although I am not going to exclude you but there is no point for inclusion. DT isn't really for left positive feedback's although that's are very old. However still you should reconsider your all feedback's in my opinions. You should avoid reason why they had excluded you then perhaps they would remove you from exclusion.


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