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The grue lurks in the darkest places of the earth. Its favorite diet is adventurers, but its insatiable appetite is tempered by its fear of light. No grue has ever been seen by the light of day, and few have survived its fearsome jaws to tell the tale.
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nmtrader100
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Activity: 51
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March 12, 2014, 08:25:37 PM |
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No, you can't. What are you going to sue them for? They don't have any money, hence them filing for bankruptcy.
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Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
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Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
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March 12, 2014, 10:12:56 PM |
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No, you can't. What are you going to sue them for? They don't have any money, hence them filing for bankruptcy.
How can they be bankrupt when in essence they have all the money and BTC on account? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong in the following. On Mt Gox, when $1M USD was moved to execute a trade, Mt Gox earned a 0.5 % fee. After 200 such trades, they earn $1M USD. Same true on the BTC side: Mt Gox charged 0.5% to execute a 1,000 BTC trade, and after 200 trades would have the entire 1,000 BTC. The only way they could be bankrupt is if they spent everything that came in via their vig, and no new money was being put in, with only insiders able to pull out $ or BTC or some other fiat. |
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promojo (OP)
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March 13, 2014, 12:31:39 AM |
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No, you can't. What are you going to sue them for? They don't have any money, hence them filing for bankruptcy.
How can they be bankrupt when in essence they have all the money and BTC on account? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong in the following. On Mt Gox, when $1M USD was moved to execute a trade, Mt Gox earned a 0.5 % fee. After 200 such trades, they earn $1M USD. Same true on the BTC side: Mt Gox charged 0.5% to execute a 1,000 BTC trade, and after 200 trades would have the entire 1,000 BTC. The only way they could be bankrupt is if they spent everything that came in via their vig, and no new money was being put in, with only insiders able to pull out $ or BTC or some other fiat. I wonder why that one account for free commissions fees? inside account? promoJo |
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God
Member
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Activity: 169
Merit: 10
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March 13, 2014, 02:18:51 AM |
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Years ago, I calculated that MtGox made about $10000 per day in fees. With the leak it should be possible to see exactly how much fees they got in total. Anyone did this? (My openoffice won't load all rows so I'm still struggling with making the calculation myself)
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promojo (OP)
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March 13, 2014, 05:22:55 AM |
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I am still yet to open up the MTGOX database dump inside a VM. Gotta install Hyper-V or VMware Workstation. On a final note that guy Mark is a clown and so is that slag of a company.
promoJo
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joesmoe2012
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March 13, 2014, 08:21:58 AM |
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I am still yet to open up the MTGOX database dump inside a VM. Gotta install Hyper-V or VMware Workstation. On a final note that guy Mark is a clown and so is that slag of a company.
promoJo
I suggest virtualbox. |
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profil3r
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Activity: 3
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June 12, 2014, 10:58:10 AM |
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It might be interesting to gather some information about the balances.csv The pic shows the data in Statistic-R. Correct me if Im wrong: - data is sorted by amount of btc balance - btc balance is displayed in satoshis - there are 189373 rows, so there are 189373 mtgox users - only users with a non-zero balance are displayed http://abload.de/thumb/mtgoxleakedbalancesin86sgu.png |
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petersiddle98
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June 12, 2014, 11:03:40 AM |
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Oh its mark again and again. Someone please jail him forever.. |
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DobZombie
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June 12, 2014, 12:11:00 PM |
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No, you can't. What are you going to sue them for? They don't have any money, hence them filing for bankruptcy.
How can they be bankrupt when in essence they have all the money and BTC on account? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong in the following. On Mt Gox, when $1M USD was moved to execute a trade, Mt Gox earned a 0.5 % fee. After 200 such trades, they earn $1M USD. Same true on the BTC side: Mt Gox charged 0.5% to execute a 1,000 BTC trade, and after 200 trades would have the entire 1,000 BTC. The only way they could be bankrupt is if they spent everything that came in via their vig, and no new money was being put in, with only insiders able to pull out $ or BTC or some other fiat. This is the bit I don't understand! That made a fortune on fees. WHERE THE FUCK DID IT GO?!? |
Tip Me if believe BTC1 will hit $1 Million by 2030
1DobZomBiE2gngvy6zDFKY5b76yvDbqRra
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DrApricot
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June 12, 2014, 08:47:25 PM |
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The only way they could be bankrupt is if they spent everything that came in via their vig, and no new money was being put in, with only insiders able to pull out $ or BTC or some other fiat.
This is the bit I don't understand! That made a fortune on fees. WHERE THE FUCK DID IT GO?!? Please correct me if I've got something wrong here, but my understanding is that Mt. Gox initially claimed 950,000 BTC had disappeared. Of these, 100,000 BTC allegedly belonged to CEO Mark Karpeles personally. That leaves 850,000 of depositors' BTC missing. A few weeks later, Mt. Gox claimed that they'd found 200,000 in an "old-format" wallet. Still 650,000 BTC of depositor's funds remained unaccounted for--at least according to them. The two sources on the original amount of loss were: (1) The "Mt. Gox Crisis Strategy Draft" supposedly leaked to a blogger, which at best has only questionable authenticity, and admittedly was not prepared by Mt. Gox. (2) Mt. Gox's bankruptcy filing, prepared by the company lawyers, stating that 850,000 BTC were missing. Since the first source isn't even from Mt. Gox, and the second one possibly makes a fraudulent claim, what makes anyone so certain there ever were 850,000 BTC in Mt. Gox? Under these circumstances, isn't it entirely conceivable that there were never more than approximately 200,000 BTC deposited there, in which case absolutely none of the Mt. Gox depositors' bitcoins are actually missing? |
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freedombit
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June 13, 2014, 08:26:16 AM |
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Under these circumstances, isn't it entirely conceivable that there were never more than approximately 200,000 BTC deposited there, in which case absolutely none of the Mt. Gox depositors' bitcoins are actually missing?
Exactly. Then again, could be wishful thinking. |
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DrApricot
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June 13, 2014, 11:45:38 AM
Last edit: June 13, 2014, 02:45:24 PM by DrApricot |
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Under these circumstances, isn't it entirely conceivable that there were never more than approximately 200,000 BTC deposited there, in which case absolutely none of the Mt. Gox depositors' bitcoins are actually missing?
Exactly. Then again, could be wishful thinking. Is that necessarily a good thing, that one might wish for? As I understand it, were all this true, then depositor's claims would be equated in a bankruptcy to those of unsecured creditors such as Mizuho Bank. The 200,000 bitcoins would be apportioned on an equal basis to them and other parties supposedly owed money by Mt. Gox. In other words, before the bankruptcy had been declared, Mt. Gox's depositors owned 100% of their own 200,000 bitcoins. Now, under the bankruptcy, the trustee will be dividing up the 200,000 on some kind of Pro rata basis between Mt. Gox's banks, other creditors, and last, but not least, the original owners of the bitcoins. That's why in an earlier post, I called this "asset stripping". It's a game some banks can play to appropriate the assets of any company over which they have got some kind of leverage. Mt. Gox appears to have been more or less of a sitting duck to be targeted. It was not the "disappeared" bitcoins (if any) that put Mt. Gox into bankruptcy; it was a cash squeeze that rendered the company unable to service its short term debt. When its loans got pulled, then it had no choice but to declare bk. It should be noted that a company's bank has the ability to manipulate deposits and withdrawals in such a way as to create an artificial cash squeeze. I'm not saying it happened exactly this way, but merely that the circumstances are quite suggestive. An investigative company in Switzerland called CCI has been hot on the trail of all the shenanigans engaged in by Mt. Gox's banks. It's obvious the demise of Mt. Gox was quite a bit more complicated than simple theft of cash and bitcoins, as has often been represented in the media. |
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btcinsight
Member
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Activity: 104
Merit: 10
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June 13, 2014, 03:32:48 PM |
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It is crucial to determine whether bitcoins are missing or if the 850,000 missing was a plain lie. If approximately all the owed bitcoins are still controlled by MtGox / liquidator, maybe another (non-fraudulent) company will be interested in buying MtGox, thus allowing to repay depositors with actual bitcoins.
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Bitrated user: 2btcinsight.
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DrApricot
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June 13, 2014, 08:06:41 PM |
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It is crucial to determine whether bitcoins are missing or if the 850,000 missing was a plain lie. If approximately all the owed bitcoins are still controlled by MtGox / liquidator, maybe another (non-fraudulent) company will be interested in buying MtGox, thus allowing to repay depositors with actual bitcoins.
Why would anyone believe a single thing about the narrative given to the public by Mt. Gox, without first demanding some form of proof? If in fact, it was all a lie about the 850K BTC, then the Mt. Gox bankruptcy filing was doubtless fraudulent, and possibly even void. Usually a contract based upon fraud is considered void--a bankruptcy is kind of a contract with a court. When the bankruptcy filing contains gross misrepresentations made with the intent of manipulating the court, then it could also be void. That's why it would be good idea to have some oversight of the Tokyo bankruptcy proceeding in order to make certain that it remains on the level. |
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btcinsight
Member
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Activity: 104
Merit: 10
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June 15, 2014, 01:00:49 AM |
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Personally, I don't know any way to be aware of what is really going on with the bankruptcy proceeding, but for sure it would be a really good idea.
If no bitcoin is really lost, which is quite probable, that could make the difference.
Is there any legal way to obtain information about bankruptcy peoceeding and an independent analysis of gox database?
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Bitrated user: 2btcinsight.
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