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Author Topic: Ledger Nano S - 24 Words questions  (Read 115 times)
Artichaud
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April 12, 2019, 01:34:10 AM
 #1

Hi,

just got a Ledger Nano S, and I have a newbie question (im a newbie):

So i write down my 24 words and my pin. what happen if I lose my ledger? Someone told me that i can buy a new one and just restore it using my pin and 24 words.

ok but my question is: does every ledger have the same 'set' or words? but just in a different order?

Lets say my words are:

1) Carrots
2) Apple
3) Banana
etc...

If I buy a new Ledger and I try to restore, will I have the same set of words to choose from to 'rebuild' my 24 recovery phrase?

Thanks in advance!
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TryNinja
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April 12, 2019, 01:36:00 AM
 #2

Either buy a new Nano S and restore your wallet with the backup seed or just restore it directly into a wallet (e.g Electrum).

You can get the same wallet (with all your addresses and coins) just with it.

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April 12, 2019, 01:38:21 AM
 #3

Either buy a new Nano S and restore your wallet with the backup seed or just restore it directly into a wallet (e.g Electrum).

You can get the same wallet (with all your addresses and coins) just with it.

Whats a backup seed? sorry im a newbie Tongue
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April 12, 2019, 01:39:21 AM
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Whats a backup seed? sorry im a newbie Tongue
Exactly what you said above. Your list of words (P.S: order matters; you need to write the exact words in the exact order).

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April 12, 2019, 01:41:53 AM
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Whats a backup seed? sorry im a newbie Tongue
Exactly what you said above. Your list of words (P.S: order matters; you need to write the exact words in the exact order).

yeah i did that already, but if i lose my Ledger, and buy a new one. How can I enter the same words on the new device? will they propose me the same list of words to choose from? that's the part i dont undertsand.
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April 12, 2019, 01:43:07 AM
 #6

yeah i did that already, but if i lose my Ledger, and buy a new one. How can I enter the same words on the new device? will they propose me the same list of words to choose from? that's the part i dont undertsand.
You will select “Restore configuration”, choose the words you written down in their right order and it will generate the same wallet you were using in your old  lost device.

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005434914-Restore-from-recovery-phrase

Or a guide with images: https://medium.com/@trionkidnapper/ledger-nano-s-restoring-a-device-using-recovery-phrase-d80051ecf17a

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April 12, 2019, 01:49:55 AM
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yeah i did that already, but if i lose my Ledger, and buy a new one. How can I enter the same words on the new device? will they propose me the same list of words to choose from? that's the part i dont undertsand.
You will select “Restore configuration”, choose the words you written down in their right order and it will generate the same wallet you were using in your old  lost device.

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005434914-Restore-from-recovery-phrase

Or a guide with images: https://medium.com/@trionkidnapper/ledger-nano-s-restoring-a-device-using-recovery-phrase-d80051ecf17a

ok thanks for the links, really helpful  Cool
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April 12, 2019, 08:10:43 AM
 #8

Also make sure you remember the PIN code you set for your device. Ledger only allows three incorrect PIN code entries and after that the device gets wiped clean and reset to factory settings. If that happens you have to go through the process that TryNinja explained.

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HCP
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April 12, 2019, 09:22:44 AM
Merited by pooya87 (1), vit05 (1), o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #9

ok but my question is: does every ledger have the same 'set' or words? but just in a different order?

Lets say my words are:

1) Carrots
2) Apple
3) Banana
etc...

If I buy a new Ledger and I try to restore, will I have the same set of words to choose from to 'rebuild' my 24 recovery phrase?
yeah i did that already, but if i lose my Ledger, and buy a new one. How can I enter the same words on the new device? will they propose me the same list of words to choose from? that's the part i dont undertsand.
Yes... Ledger utilises the BIP39 wordlist... specifically, the English one.

It is a published list of 2048 English words... when the device is first initialised, it generates a very large random number known as the "seed", from which all your private keys are generated... This very large number is VERY important, and needs to be able to be backed up and restored, to prevent you from losing your funds should your device get lost/damaged/stolen etc.

Rather than have users attempt to write down this very large number as a backup (which would be incredibly easy to get wrong, one missed/incorrect numeral would invalidate it!), a system was devised to represent the very large number by a sequence of words, which are generally a lot easier for humans to write down, store and re-enter without mistakes than a very very VERY long sequence of numbers. So, the seed is broken down into smaller "chunks" (24 chunks in the case of the Ledger)... and each chunk is then represented by a word from the list.

As each "chunk" is actually 11 bits long, and 11 bits can be used to represent 2048 numbers in the range from 0-2047... hence the reason why the list has 2048 words.

When you restore your device... and enter your 24 words... each word is converted back into the 11 bit number "chunk"... all the chunks are then concatenated back together... and the device once again has your very large number (aka seed)!

That is a very over simplified explanation of BIP39 seed mnemonics... you can read more here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki

Artichaud
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April 13, 2019, 02:12:22 AM
 #10

Fantastic explanations, thank you so much!

Best Answer
  Grin

ok but my question is: does every ledger have the same 'set' or words? but just in a different order?

Lets say my words are:

1) Carrots
2) Apple
3) Banana
etc...

If I buy a new Ledger and I try to restore, will I have the same set of words to choose from to 'rebuild' my 24 recovery phrase?
yeah i did that already, but if i lose my Ledger, and buy a new one. How can I enter the same words on the new device? will they propose me the same list of words to choose from? that's the part i dont undertsand.
Yes... Ledger utilises the BIP39 wordlist... specifically, the English one.

It is a published list of 2048 English words... when the device is first initialised, it generates a very large random number known as the "seed", from which all your private keys are generated... This very large number is VERY important, and needs to be able to be backed up and restored, to prevent you from losing your funds should your device get lost/damaged/stolen etc.

Rather than have users attempt to write down this very large number as a backup (which would be incredibly easy to get wrong, one missed/incorrect numeral would invalidate it!), a system was devised to represent the very large number by a sequence of words, which are generally a lot easier for humans to write down, store and re-enter without mistakes than a very very VERY long sequence of numbers. So, the seed is broken down into smaller "chunks" (24 chunks in the case of the Ledger)... and each chunk is then represented by a word from the list.

As each "chunk" is actually 11 bits long, and 11 bits can be used to represent 2048 numbers in the range from 0-2047... hence the reason why the list has 2048 words.

When you restore your device... and enter your 24 words... each word is converted back into the 11 bit number "chunk"... all the chunks are then concatenated back together... and the device once again has your very large number (aka seed)!

That is a very over simplified explanation of BIP39 seed mnemonics... you can read more here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki
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April 14, 2019, 10:29:26 PM
 #11

The pin is only specific to the device that's currently storing your coins. Only the seed is what's needed to restore the coins in another device. You can of course set the pin as the same in the new device but it won't matter if you don't know the original pin with a new Ledger.

It's two different processes. The seed loads the private keys on any device. The pin controls access only on that one device the keys are on.

Since you have your seed you're all set. No one wants to be this guy even though he scraped a happy ending - https://www.wired.com/story/i-forgot-my-pin-an-epic-tale-of-losing-dollar30000-in-bitcoin/

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