Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[Dogedegen]

Accordingly, if you are mixing up your trading ideas with investing, then you are likely trying to ascribe the same short-term profit motives onto investors, even though there is no reason for investors to be overly focusing on profits as you seem to be proclaiming to be the case, but instead it is more likely that guys with an investment approach to bitcoin are focused on ongoingly building up their bitcoin stack (through ongoing buying) rather than getting distracted by whether or not they might be able to extract some dollars or other nonsense that you seem to be implying to be the supposed "profit motives" of everyone. 

Crypto was a bit the precursor to what LinkedIn is these days. You made one trade? You are now a trader. You bought something once, call yourself an investor. Read Coindesk a few times per week, call yourself an enthusiast and so it goes. When I think about how many people have lost or are still losing money in future because they believe that they are traders after having a few trades, or even worse they believe that they know what they are doing after being lucky a few times it is a bit sad. Sadly with some of these people education or warnings don't work either, I had a few times where I warned a few mates against using leverage. They got lucky a few times with small plays and this is why they insisted that they can do it, later they lost the majority of their stash. 

You are wrong when you are suggesting such high focus upon "profits".. so in that regard you seem to be unable to discuss the matter properly because you cannot even remove yourself from a trader mentality... so then you proclaim that everyone has the same mentality about profits, when they don't.

It is quite unusual for the user to suggest that speculation is necessarily where the history of Bitcoin and data about it shows is that those that don't speculate and just invest for the long term have significantly outperformed everyone. Trading in Bitcoin but even worse in crypto which is what many normal people who call themselves traders in this space also do is very risky, for shitcoins it is like playing in a casino. It works well until that one moment where everything is lost and one can never recover to that point unless you put in a lot more money to buy back everything that you have built.

I should not even have to explain, yet a guy who ongoingly accumulates bitcoin, then sure he may well get to a position of having way more options if the value of his holdings goes shooting up, so then how many bitcoin in the holdings has a compounding effect, yet in the meantime, if he is accumulating 4-10 years or longer, he may well just stay focused on accumulating, and sure, he might also have spreadsheets and assessments of the value of his holdings as compared with the value that he put in, yet he may also have abilities to continue to stay focused on ongoing accumulation and making assessments in regards to how many bitcoin he might need, and sure if he had been accumulating 10 years or more, he might get to a place where his bitcoin may or may not be in profits, yet he is at an age where he still might have to consider the extent to which he might transition from accumulating and needing to transition into some form of withdrawal from his bitcoin holdings, whether he might calculate sustainable withdrawal or some other forum of withdrawal, so he makes his assessment about what to do based on how many bitcoin he has and the value of his bitcoin holdings a that time, and not in regards that they may or may not be "in profits."

I believe that there are actually very few reasons to stop accumulating. Sure we can think of specifics like reaching your own goal, the old established goal but why stop there? Particularly in cases where your financial situation has been improving in parallel due to improved skills, experience and career growth then one should revise their targets accordingly. I mean someone earning $30k a year should not have the same target if they were realistic as someone earning $300k, right? What do you think?

Even though many longer term bitcoiners have gone through a lot of ups and downs in the value of their bitcoin holdings, there are likely a decent number of bitcoiners who have held onto their bitcoin and continue to hold onto their bitcoin holdings even though their holdings have been in profits pretty much from the start of their investment into bitcoin - especially if you look back at bitcoiners who have been in bitcoin for 10 years or more. 

You think that they are motivated by profits?  For example, if some of the longer term HODLers have bitcoin holdings that are in the $500 per coin (or perhaps less?) territory, they have a lot of fluctuation in the value of their holdings, yet they have largely been in profits since mid 2016, and their holdings had gone all the way up to 252x and then back down, so up and down with their "level of profits."  Right now with current BTC prices, the "profits" of the BTC holders who have average BTC prices of $500 or lass are hovering around at least 148x, so how exactly would you suggest that their management of their holdings is motivated by profits?  It seems a bit vague and inexact to frame their motives in terms of profits, no?

The fluctuations are huge in the returns in those periods. Just the last comparison of the peak of $120k and now around $74k is a huge swing in terms of potential profits, but those that are not motivated by this at all do not really care about it. The user is mistaken to imply that they are concerned with profits, if they did they would try to sell at peaks and not ride the roller coaster through multiple cycles and not selling anything at all.

[EluguHcman]

The reason a lot of us started investing in bitcoin was as a result of the conviction we have from bitcoin's past years considering the level of increment, and when you put yourself in the scenario of starting few years earlier you'll discover that profit had already started popping up, then imagine holding for another 6-10 years. So yeah conviction got us started but what will sustain your investment isn't some theoretical view of what you see or understand bitcoin to be, it's a matter of how much of risk management you put in place to ensure that you don't run off rail. Investing only from our discretionary income and building up emergency fund along side your bitcoin will get you far, it has a way of keeping you emotional calm and financially sound to keep it steady.

There are many reasons why people invest in BTC, and one of them is because they see the price of BTC continuously rising and always breaking new ATHs. Therefore, if we hold it for a long time, the profits will certainly increase. But there are also other reasons that make people want to invest in BTC, including the limited supply of BTC, which is why many people want to invest in BTC.

But the point is, investing in BTC can be said to be difficult if, for example, you can't manage it properly. Many people have lost money due to poor management skills. Yes, an emergency fund, as you mentioned, is important. Yes, using discretionary income is important because if you don't use discretionary income to buy BTC, it will definitely be difficult to hold BTC long-term.

In reference to Bitcoin early stages, it was not so admiring like it is now because then due to it poor adoption of investors with the low market cap, the price was so discouraging for people to invest on and therefore was underrated to foresee it could increase in values as it has come this far where it grows and becomes more expensive to buy.

Some enthusiasts may give excuses for not buying due to high cost, those whose understands a true potential assets which grows in time who understands that it will increase more in due time are convinced to buy at their disposals and holds believing it will keep growing over the long term.
Instead of falling to regret why they did not buy when they had the chance, they affords to take the risk while those who always have excuses regrets it time to time and don't buy.

However, investing in Bitcoin will always require basic educational  knowledge that Bitcoin is not a get rich quick investment and therefore should only invest with spare funds after immediate needs has been attended to while there is also need to have savings to attend to emergency needs too.
This encourages to manage the risks of volatility while sticking to achieve the long term goal in good health without loosing focused.

The limited supply is a technical figurative which scarcity gives it the edge to store values against inflation.

[I_Anime]

You think that almost everyone (referring to investing) is focused on profits? 

Might you have a better way of saying what you are trying to say, since you seem to be referring to trading rather than investing when you are proclaiming "profits" a if it were a central focus of a bitcoin investor.

yes that is how traders always think and behave, those kit thinks that everything in this life is almost about profit and so they are ready to do all kind of dumb things in their power to get quick money.

A investor thinks differently, a investors thinks capital should first be preserve before profit can come, that is why they ongoingly invest for a very long period like 4 years.

Talking about profits doesn’t make you a trader . As an investor we also focus on profits but not on quick profits, that’s the reason we always advise folks to stack enough bitcoin if you want a better ROI . Yes is not easy to build a better stack , it takes time and determination, mix with a good principle .

While traders literally focus on short term profits. They don’t accumulate , rather they try to take opportunity of the markets wave , which come with high risk compare to that of trading .

[ZeroVinsonN]

Investors have seen bitcoin reach new heights and still come back down but one thing as always been consistent that every fall was always followed be a new high that was higher that the last one, traders do not hold long enough to experience this so they wouldn't understand but a investor will never let a dip in price discourage him, rather than being discouraged by a dip and investor will take advantage of it and buy more as long as they have the discretionary income available to do so and increase their holdings in the process but this is where they are better then traders because a trader will try to sell the moment the price goes back up but an investor will know to keep accumulating and HODLing.

Overall you are correct about all of your points ZeroVinsonN, even though you make it seem as if the BTC price reaching new ATHs is guaranteed when it is not. Do you think that there could be ways that you could say the same thing (or something largely equivalent) without making it seem as if the BTC price is guaranteed to make new ATHs?

Sure, I will grant you that the odds are pretty high that bitcoin will make new ATHs, yet the ATH is not guaranteed, and also it is not guaranteed that any bitcoin holder (accumulator) will end up profiting from such new ATH in the event that such new ATH ends up playing out.

There are no 100% guarantees with bitcoin investment but there are also no 100% guarantee of success in any other type of investment, if things were that simple everyone would be rich already but even without the guarantee we can at least say that something has a good track record and also has a relatively high chance of turning a profit, bitcoin investment might not be 100% guaranteed but the chances of success are higher than most, that said investors should know that they are still taking a risk by investing in bitcoin while there is a good chance that bitcoin's price will never drop down to ZERO there is also a good chance that it will not go higher than it currently is but even with all these potential limitations a good investor will still choose to invest with the hope of the price of bitcoin increasing with time so while we can not say for sure that the price will keep increasing up to even hitting a new ATH we should still endeavour to accumulate and HODL as that is the investor thing to do.

[EL MOHA]

that said investors should know that they are still taking a risk by investing in bitcoin while there is a good chance that bitcoin's price will never drop down to ZERO there is also a good chance that it will not go higher than it currently is but even with all these potential limitations a good investor will still choose to invest with the hope of the price of bitcoin increasing with time so while we can not say for sure that the price will keep increasing up to even hitting a new ATH we should still endeavour to accumulate and HODL as that is the investor thing to do.

Yes there is no 100% gurantee that a certain investment will run into profit because like we used to say it even the life you have is not promised the next day, but the reason why uptil today we still actually rate high bitcoin and single handedly picked it out as the coin for investment is that even if there is one percent of a crypto investment gaining profit amidst any crisis we believe it’s bitcoin and that’s where the real value and assurance comes from.

Choosing bitcoin is like looking at all assets and pitching the tent at one which we all know is the most less risky among them. Bitcoiners aren’t saying bitcoin is gurantee of new all time high but they believe it possesses the potential to do that more than any other coin or investment and this assurance is gained from its past trends

[Richbased]

In reference to Bitcoin early stages, it was not so admiring like it is now because then due to it poor adoption of investors with the low market cap, the price was so discouraging for people to invest on and therefore was underrated to foresee it could increase in values as it has come this far where it grows and becomes more expensive to buy.

Many investors were afraid of losing their money during the early stage of bitcoin because there was no much inflow in the market coupled with the fact that the price was very low so they thought it won't survive market sentiments and volatility.

Some enthusiasts may give excuses for not buying due to high cost, those whose understands a true potential assets which grows in time who understands that it will increase more in due time are convinced to buy at their disposals and holds believing it will keep growing over the long term.
Instead of falling to regret why they did not buy when they had the chance, they affords to take the risk while those who always have excuses regrets it time to time and don't buy.

The truth is just that not many people knew that bitcoin has the potentials for future growth, we may not blame them because truly, bitcoin was valueless as at that time. It was when the price of bitcoin started growing immensely that people started seeing the value in it and began to invest.

The limited supply is a technical figurative which scarcity gives it the edge to store values against inflation.

Hedge

[Qhunman]

We cannot do without speculating more about the market, if we really don't want to miss out on every buying opportunity or selling to exit the market, the most interesting aspect of it is that we are all investing all because we wanted to make profit, while we also need to do the necessary things that are needed to ensure that we still remain at the same pace on whatever we are investing just to ensure our targets are meant, because when we plan it, it will work as we have always wanted it to be, even though there might be some slight changes.

Who told you someone cannot invest in without speculation.? Let me tell you, long term investors doesn't need to analyse or predict the next movement of bitcoin before investing investing in bitcoin because that is totally the handi work of traders and not investors. Speculating on the price of bitcoin is a trader thing. Investors who is doing regular dca when buying bitcoin doesn't need to speculate about the market especially since they are bitcoin buying regardless of price .

[Solokan]

You think that almost everyone (referring to investing) is focused on profits? 

Might you have a better way of saying what you are trying to say, since you seem to be referring to trading rather than investing when you are proclaiming "profits" a if it were a central focus of a bitcoin investor.

yes that is how traders always think and behave, those kit thinks that everything in this life is almost about profit and so they are ready to do all kind of dumb things in their power to get quick money.

A investor thinks differently, a investors thinks capital should first be preserve before profit can come, that is why they ongoingly invest for a very long period like 4 years.

Talking about profits doesn’t make you a trader . As an investor we also focus on profits but not on quick profits, that’s the reason we always advise folks to stack enough bitcoin if you want a better ROI . Yes is not easy to build a better stack , it takes time and determination, mix with a good principle .

While traders literally focus on short term profits. They don’t accumulate , rather they try to take opportunity of the markets wave , which come with high risk compare to that of trading .

I agree with you. It's true that we can discuss profits because long-term investing and trading both aim to make a profit. However, trading seeks profits over a short period of time, while investing is a long-term strategy, like four years or more. I definitely think investing in BTC 4 is too short-term, and the returns aren't significant unless you have a larger capital

Yes, building a large asset base isn't easy, and many people give up due to temptation. However, if we use the right methods, building assets becomes easier. However, it's certainly true that many people prefer trading because of the quick profits, but often, due to losing trades, many ultimately switch to long-term investing in btc

[JayJuanGee]

Those who do market research to invest in Bitcoin may be unable to sustain their investment. The investor is inside the current market with a slight improvement, so a person who follows the DCA method regularly will never do market research for Bitcoin investment because he will maintain the continuity of purchase. If you invest for a long time by maintaining the continuity of Bitcoin purchase, the success of Bitcoin investment will definitely be ensured, because the possibility of profit will increase greatly if the portfolio is large due to investing in Bitcoin for a long time. Therefore, Bitcoin is the most profitable in the long term and helps reduce risk.

Doing market research is actually not too bad to do but when the goal is long-term then don't get too hung up on short-term movements.
I think understanding the market as an additional knowledge is not something negative because it can also make our knowledge and experience increase.  What needs to be avoided here is not about understanding the market movement but the response that we do afterwards.
There is a concern for some people (especially for beginners) to make short-term market understanding as a reference that they have to get out when from the beginning they want to make this a long-term investment.

It is not the understanding of the market that is dangerous but our response to the market because we feel that our speculation can come true so we actually make the wrong decision when we see market movements.

The bitcoin market (as compared with other places that money can be placed) is only 1 out of my 9 items to consider, so it seems to me that various personal cashflow management factors play a pretty strong role.. likely even more important than our assessment of bitcoin.

Accordingly, if you are mixing up your trading ideas with investing, then you are likely trying to ascribe the same short-term profit motives onto investors, even though there is no reason for investors to be overly focusing on profits as you seem to be proclaiming to be the case, but instead it is more likely that guys with an investment approach to bitcoin are focused on ongoingly building up their bitcoin stack (through ongoing buying) rather than getting distracted by whether or not they might be able to extract some dollars or other nonsense that you seem to be implying to be the supposed "profit motives" of everyone. 

Crypto was a bit the precursor to what LinkedIn is these days. You made one trade? You are now a trader. You bought something once, call yourself an investor. Read Coindesk a few times per week, call yourself an enthusiast and so it goes. When I think about how many people have lost or are still losing money in future because they believe that they are traders after having a few trades, or even worse they believe that they know what they are doing after being lucky a few times it is a bit sad. Sadly with some of these people education or warnings don't work either, I had a few times where I warned a few mates against using leverage. They got lucky a few times with small plays and this is why they insisted that they can do it, later they lost the majority of their stash. 

I understand that it can take a while to learn, and surely there are a lot of folks who really think in a kind of gambling way, which might be that so many folks do not even know how to invest.. and so if we have even a lot of newbies into bitcoin who have never invested, then they might have some difficulties figuring out how to get into the right kind of a mindset.

Whether on this forum or even in real life, I try to suggest that guys ease into building getting started, so then once they get started buying every week or whatever, then maybe at some point they can ramp up their level of investing, and it can even take a bit of time to get some accounts set up or to figure out from where they might source their coins in the beginning... yet of course, on the forum, we cannot necessarily know the options that might be available to people in differing geographical locations - even though in recent times, I have not really seen too many members complaining about their coin sourcing options .. even though surely it can be a bit of a factor to figure out in some locations.

You are wrong when you are suggesting such high focus upon "profits".. so in that regard you seem to be unable to discuss the matter properly because you cannot even remove yourself from a trader mentality... so then you proclaim that everyone has the same mentality about profits, when they don't.

It is quite unusual for the user to suggest that speculation is necessarily where the history of Bitcoin and data about it shows is that those that don't speculate and just invest for the long term have significantly outperformed everyone.

We cannot really guarantee that the long term ongoing accumulation is going to continue to be profitable, and we might even assert that the future bitcoin price slope might be less steep than it has been historically, yet at the same time, there is no real data to support any assertion that bitcoin's investment thesis is weakening with the passage of time, so in that sense, even a brand new bitcoiner should consider figuring out ways to get started investing into bitcoin and to focus on trying to figure out ways to ongoingly accumulate bitcoin within an amount that they consider to be workable for their own cashflows, and surely there are some guys who have very little back up funds, and they likely need to make sure that they have back up funds if they are going to be investing into bitcoin for long periods forward, since there surely can be challenges to have a lot of confidence about not being tempted to tap into our bitcoin investment if we are not putting systems/practices into place that gives us some cushion in the event that our income might go down and/or our expenses might go up and we want to be able to continue to build our bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, even if there might be some periods in which we might not be in a position to continue to add to our bitcoin stash that we are hopefully ongoingly building until it gets to a reasonable decently sized amount.

Trading in Bitcoin but even worse in crypto which is what many normal people who call themselves traders in this space also do is very risky, for shitcoins it is like playing in a casino. It works well until that one moment where everything is lost and one can never recover to that point unless you put in a lot more money to buy back everything that you have built.

There are some folks who have somewhat degenerate personalities, yet if they could figure out how to at least limit the amount of their exposure to either trading and/or to shitcoins (perhaps to less than 10% of the size of their bitcoin holdings, then they might have some chance of learning their way out of such bad habits, yet so many times, there can be difficulties for guys to limit their own bad habits.. since they might have inclinations to go beyond their self-imposed limits, and then it just becomes an ever growing devolution.. that they might not be able to control.. so yeah, it can be difficult for guys who already have such gambling inclinations.

I should not even have to explain, yet a guy who ongoingly accumulates bitcoin, then sure he may well get to a position of having way more options if the value of his holdings goes shooting up, so then how many bitcoin in the holdings has a compounding effect, yet in the meantime, if he is accumulating 4-10 years or longer, he may well just stay focused on accumulating, and sure, he might also have spreadsheets and assessments of the value of his holdings as compared with the value that he put in, yet he may also have abilities to continue to stay focused on ongoing accumulation and making assessments in regards to how many bitcoin he might need, and sure if he had been accumulating 10 years or more, he might get to a place where his bitcoin may or may not be in profits, yet he is at an age where he still might have to consider the extent to which he might transition from accumulating and needing to transition into some form of withdrawal from his bitcoin holdings, whether he might calculate sustainable withdrawal or some other forum of withdrawal, so he makes his assessment about what to do based on how many bitcoin he has and the value of his bitcoin holdings a that time, and not in regards that they may or may not be "in profits."

I believe that there are actually very few reasons to stop accumulating. Sure we can think of specifics like reaching your own goal, the old established goal but why stop there?

Of course, each person has to consider his own situation and the extent to which it might be practical to change his goals (to make them higher) once he had already reached them.  Surely I understand that sometimes guys might set their goals too low, so there can be some reasonable basis for making the goals higher after they had been reached... and so surely the guy has to account for his own factors.. and then what it might mean to him to continue to want to accumulate more bitcoin when he may well have enough and/or even more than enough... and so maybe it is difficult to talk about these kinds of ideas in the abstract, since if we are working with a set of particulars, we may well recognize and appreciate how at some point enough, should be enough, and getting to the status of enough could open doors to have the freedom to quit ones job and to be able to live off of his bitcoin for the rest of his life.

Of course, your registration date is less than a year ago, so maybe we need to use a guy with a longer history, and sure we can change around the particulars, yet I am trying to show at what point a guy might have had reached enough or more than enough.

So, let me use an example of a guy who perhaps came to bitcoin in his mid 30s towards the beginning of 2016, and at that time, he had been perhaps attended some college, and he had been working for the past 10 or more years, and maybe he had some success and/or not, yet his income was around $30k per year, and his then investment portfolio was around $45k.. .. so he was not in a bad place, but he still wanted to be able to retire in his early to mid-50s, so maybe he first heard about bitcoin around that early 2016 time, so   he considered that maybe he could take around $10k from his already existing investment portfolio and put that into bitcoin, and otherwise he would continue to invest in bitcoin at a pace of around $100 per week (which was around 17.33% of his income).

He started out by investing the $11k in bitcoin between January and March 2026 - so he accumulated 27.25 BTC

Then thereafter starting from April 1, 2016 until now, he invested $100 per week into bitcoin, which added up to another $52k invested and 12.1 BTC.

So up until now he had invested right around $63k into bitcoin and he has 49.35 bitcoin.  I have a hard time concluding that the guy does not have enough or more than enough bitcoin, since his income was $30k per year, and perhaps his goal would have had been to have an income of around $80k per year and not having to work, yet right now he could get a sustainable income of $80k per year for right around 15.2 BTC per year

Yet, right now his 49.35 BTC will support an income that is about 3x his goal and right around 8x the $30k per year income that he had been making.  Sure, the guy is in his mid to late 40s because he is 10 years older, yet he is also ahead of schedule in terms of options.

You can quibble with the example, yet my main point is that there can be enough or more than enough, whether the person might be wanting to merely replace his current standard of living or perhaps to increase his standard of living by some reasonable multiple higher.  If the guy says that he is not going to stop untiil he is a billionarie, or that he is making over a million per year from his bitcoin, then he has a right to do those things even though they might not be necessary, especially some folks do not necessarily want to change their llfestyle in magnitude kinds of ways.

Particularly in cases where your financial situation has been improving in parallel due to improved skills, experience and career growth then one should revise their targets accordingly. I mean someone earning $30k a year should not have the same target if they were realistic as someone earning $300k, right? What do you think?

Sure, within reason, and yeah, some guys get stuck in certain kinds of jobs and perhaps limited skills and other guys get raises along the way, yet if they are doubling or tripling their current standard of living that seems reasonable, and perhaps they can fit into something like a 10x increase, yet some levels of increases in the standard of living might be harder to adapt into.

One of the problems that I anticipate is that sometimes guys might keep setting their goals higher because they could be having difficulties figuring out how to transition.. and maybe they are greedy or they want power and status.. so I cannot necessarily blame them unless they might be interfering with their own ability to figure out that there might be points that are "enough" or "more than enough."  And, yeah none of us can answer for anyone else in terms of how much might be enough or more than enough.

Even though many longer term bitcoiners have gone through a lot of ups and downs in the value of their bitcoin holdings, there are likely a decent number of bitcoiners who have held onto their bitcoin and continue to hold onto their bitcoin holdings even though their holdings have been in profits pretty much from the start of their investment into bitcoin - especially if you look back at bitcoiners who have been in bitcoin for 10 years or more. 

You think that they are motivated by profits?  For example, if some of the longer term HODLers have bitcoin holdings that are in the $500 per coin (or perhaps less?) territory, they have a lot of fluctuation in the value of their holdings, yet they have largely been in profits since mid 2016, and their holdings had gone all the way up to 252x and then back down, so up and down with their "level of profits."  Right now with current BTC prices, the "profits" of the BTC holders who have average BTC prices of $500 or lass are hovering around at least 148x, so how exactly would you suggest that their management of their holdings is motivated by profits?  It seems a bit vague and inexact to frame their motives in terms of profits, no?

The fluctuations are huge in the returns in those periods. Just the last comparison of the peak of $120k and now around $74k is a huge swing in terms of potential profits, but those that are not motivated by this at all do not really care about it. The user is mistaken to imply that they are concerned with profits, if they did they would try to sell at peaks and not ride the roller coaster through multiple cycles and not selling anything at all.

Even if we give an example that might be a guy who had accumulated north of 100 bitcoin between 2014 and 2016.. so then perhaps his average cost per BTC could be $500 per coin.. so then the more importan question might be how many coins he has rather than how much in profits he might be or not. ..

Sure, if he had 100 bitcoin, then he would have had been worth $12.6 million when BTC prices were $126k, buty then ONLY worth $6 million when prices dropped to $60k and so now with prices around $75k, he would be worth $7.5 million.

But if he figures out the income that he can draw from his holdings, then maybe that is the more important matter, and maybe he is drawing a few hundred million per year, then he is not necessarily in jeopardy, even though from time to time, he might purposefully choose to shave off some extra coins.

[ruykeri]

We cannot do without speculating more about the market, if we really don't want to miss out on every buying opportunity or selling to exit the market, the most interesting aspect of it is that we are all investing all because we wanted to make profit, while we also need to do the necessary things that are needed to ensure that we still remain at the same pace on whatever we are investing just to ensure our targets are meant, because when we plan it, it will work as we have always wanted it to be, even though there might be some slight changes.

You have mixed up speculating, investing, buying opportunity, selling to exit, target fulfillment. If you are an investor, then you should focus on regular accumulation. The Bitcoin market is completely unpredictable. If you wait to buy Bitcoin by predicting the price, you will only miss the opportunity. A disciplined investment plan is much more effective than trying to catch every move of the market through speculation. Everyone has the goal of making profit. But it should be done according to the right planing . And it is natural for plans to change. Because after a person starts buying Bitcoin, he starts learning and gaining experience. From that learning, there should be a shift from trading to investing. It is appropriate to change the mindset from timing the short-term market to investing Bitcoin for a long time.

[JayJuanGee]

You think that almost everyone (referring to investing) is focused on profits? 

Might you have a better way of saying what you are trying to say, since you seem to be referring to trading rather than investing when you are proclaiming "profits" a if it were a central focus of a bitcoin investor.

yes that is how traders always think and behave, those kit thinks that everything in this life is almost about profit and so they are ready to do all kind of dumb things in their power to get quick money.

A investor thinks differently, a investors thinks capital should first be preserve before profit can come, that is why they ongoingly invest for a very long period like 4 years.

Talking about profits doesn’t make you a trader . As an investor we also focus on profits but not on quick profits, that’s the reason we always advise folks to stack enough bitcoin if you want a better ROI . Yes is not easy to build a better stack , it takes time and determination, mix with a good principle .

While traders literally focus on short term profits. They don’t accumulate , rather they try to take opportunity of the markets wave , which come with high risk compare to that of trading .

You sound mixed up.  Investors do not need to focus on profits, but instead accumulation of bitcoin and building their stash.

Sure you can account and monitor your profits and various ways of valuating your BTC stash, but hopefully you are not making decisions regarding how to accumulate bitcoin or to maintain your stash based on profits.

And it is also confusing to proclaim that all investors are still motivated by profits, which is not necessarily the case.. and it is getting a bit nonsensical for guys still coming in and arguing the importance of profits blah blah blah. Are you motivated by profits in regards to your accumulation, then your maintenance and then hopefully if you get to some level of overaccumulation?

[edited out]

I agree with you. It's true that we can discuss profits because long-term investing and trading both aim to make a profit. However, trading seeks profits over a short period of time, while investing is a long-term strategy, like four years or more. I definitely think investing in BTC 4 is too short-term, and the returns aren't significant unless you have a larger capital

Yes, building a large asset base isn't easy, and many people give up due to temptation. However, if we use the right methods, building assets becomes easier. However, it's certainly true that many people prefer trading because of the quick profits, but often, due to losing trades, many ultimately switch to long-term investing in btc

You can do what you like, but focusing on profits is a dumb framework for an investor.  Hopefully guys can figure out how not to get trapped and/or lured into such inadequate ways of thinking about their bitcoin investment, ... but hey if that is the ONLY way that you understand, then what good is there gong to be for me to continue to repeat myself and to argue against a few members who seem like brick walls --- in regards to the inadequacy of such a profit oriented framework.

[PhilosopherKing]

You think that almost everyone (referring to investing) is focused on profits? 

Might you have a better way of saying what you are trying to say, since you seem to be referring to trading rather than investing when you are proclaiming "profits" a if it were a central focus of a bitcoin investor.

yes that is how traders always think and behave, those kit thinks that everything in this life is almost about profit and so they are ready to do all kind of dumb things in their power to get quick money.

A investor thinks differently, a investors thinks capital should first be preserve before profit can come, that is why they ongoingly invest for a very long period like 4 years.

Talking about profits doesn’t make you a trader . As an investor we also focus on profits but not on quick profits, that’s the reason we always advise folks to stack enough bitcoin if you want a better ROI . Yes is not easy to build a better stack , it takes time and determination, mix with a good principle .

While traders literally focus on short term profits. They don’t accumulate , rather they try to take opportunity of the markets wave , which come with high risk compare to that of trading .

You sound mixed up.  Investors do not need to focus on profits, but instead accumulation of bitcoin and building their stash.

Sure you can account and monitor your profits and various ways of valuating your BTC stash, but hopefully you are not making decisions regarding how to accumulate bitcoin or to maintain your stash based on profits.

And it is also confusing to proclaim that all investors are still motivated by profits, which is not necessarily the case.. and it is getting a bit nonsensical for guys still coming in and arguing the importance of profits blah blah blah. Are you motivated by profits in regards to your accumulation, then your maintenance and then hopefully if you get to some level of overaccumulation?

[edited out]

I agree with you. It's true that we can discuss profits because long-term investing and trading both aim to make a profit. However, trading seeks profits over a short period of time, while investing is a long-term strategy, like four years or more. I definitely think investing in BTC 4 is too short-term, and the returns aren't significant unless you have a larger capital

Yes, building a large asset base isn't easy, and many people give up due to temptation. However, if we use the right methods, building assets becomes easier. However, it's certainly true that many people prefer trading because of the quick profits, but often, due to losing trades, many ultimately switch to long-term investing in btc

You can do what you like, but focusing on profits is a dumb framework for an investor.  Hopefully guys can figure out how not to get trapped and/or lured into such inadequate ways of thinking about their bitcoin investment, ... but hey if that is the ONLY way that you understand, then what good is there gong to be for me to continue to repeat myself and to argue against a few members who seem like brick walls --- in regards to the inadequacy of such a profit oriented framework.

If only profit drives person to buy bitcoin then they don't mind doing dumb thing as trading before having enough stash. Thinking profits can make people to market timers and price monitorers and from that they begin to look for how to sell their bitcoin and make the profit that their mind is always on

Real investors do not mess around with those unwanted thoughts. Investors thinking is of how to ongoingly invest for a cycle and more so to build enough bitcoin stash

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

If only profit drives person to buy bitcoin then they don't mind doing dumb thing as trading before having enough stash. Thinking profits can make people to market timers and price monitorers and from that they begin to look for how to sell their bitcoin and make the profit that their mind is always on

Real investors do not mess around with those unwanted thoughts. Investors thinking is of how to ongoingly invest for a cycle and more so to build enough bitcoin stash

Sometimes I start to think that the older forum members will start to understand that there is no reason to be messing around looking at price or profits or trying to promote those kinds of ideas etc.. or at least not allowing BTC price changes to affect the ongoing bitcoin accumulation that they likely need to continue to do, yet so many guys seem to get distracted by the price, and or  by profits... which likely puts them into a wrong mindset, especially since it tends to take so long to build up a bitcoin holdings, even for any guys that might be able to draw some money from some other investments that they have and to put that money into bitcoin.

Don't get me wrong, I have always plotted out my numbers to watch how much I was spending and how many BTC (satoshis) I was getting, so the numbers would add up to the total amount invested and the total amount of satoshis, and I could compare that to the price to see whether they were in profits or not (and by how much), but none of that keeping track affected what I was doing.. which, in the beginning was ongoingly buying BTC no matter the price.  Sure, maybe on certain weeks I would try to buy during the dips within the week, but at the end of the week, I would spend all of my bitcoin buying allowance for that week, since the next week was going to give me a new bitcoin buying allowance, and there was some value in ongoingly doing those weekly buys and ongoingly building up the bitcoin stash each week and sure from time to time to make sure that the money that was being spent was not going beyond discretionary funds, and to have enough in the discretionary funds for discretionary consumption that might come up between pay periods or maybe to just keep some of the discretionary funds as extra cash to have available, yet each week, also had an amount that went towards buying bitcoin.

[Barikui1]

You can do what you like, but focusing on profits is a dumb framework for an investor.  Hopefully guys can figure out how not to get trapped and/or lured into such inadequate ways of thinking about their bitcoin investment, ... but hey if that is the ONLY way that you understand, then what good is there gong to be for me to continue to repeat myself and to argue against a few members who seem like brick walls --- in regards to the inadequacy of such a profit oriented framework.

If only profit drives person to buy bitcoin then they don't mind doing dumb thing as trading before having enough stash. Thinking profits can make people to market timers and price monitorers and from that they begin to look for how to sell their bitcoin and make the profit that their mind is always on

Real investors do not mess around with those unwanted thoughts. Investors thinking is of how to ongoingly invest for a cycle and more so to build enough bitcoin stash

Life generally is about interest, so wether we are ready to have this conversation or not, it doesn't change the fact that almost all Bitcoin investors invested in it due to the potential profit they intend making in the future, or do you think people invest in Bitcoin or other assets because of anything else aside profit?

It's about profit bro, but the way you decide to go about it is where the real challenges are, because going long term is the only reliable way to milk a reasonable profit from your Bitcoin investment, not by trading it for minimal gains that would not change or impact your finances that much. So I don't see anything bad in talking about profit because it's why we invest, don't just be obsessed or be thinking about it all the time, so that you wouldn't be thinking of trading your Bitcoin for minimal gains.

[BlackBoss_]

Life generally is about interest, so wether we are ready to have this conversation or not, it doesn't change the fact that almost all Bitcoin investors invested in it due to the potential profit they intend making in the future, or do you think people invest in Bitcoin or other assets because of anything else aside profit?

Only if you spend your money for spending to have something for eating, drinking, wearing or for liabilities, you don't care about profit. In contrast, you will care about profit, chance of getting profit with other things like in investing or trading. You can buy bitcoin with the purpose of getting profit but how will you do that for getting profit can lead you to different ways.

Like investing looks to be best and safest.
Trading even with Spot is dangerous and unlikely lead to profit.
Trading with two more dangerous trading types like Margin and Futures will almost result in loss, not profit.

It's about profit bro, but the way you decide to go about it is where the real challenges are, because going long term is the only reliable way to milk a reasonable profit from your Bitcoin investment, not by trading it for minimal gains that would not change or impact your finances that much. So I don't see anything bad in talking about profit because it's why we invest, don't just be obsessed or be thinking about it all the time, so that you wouldn't be thinking of trading your Bitcoin for minimal gains.

It's natural and human when people have intention and plans for getting profit but to get it, people must be very careful in defending their initial capital. Investment in Bitcoin is a good way to defend capital, and get profit but in order to hold their bitcoin well and tight after purchasing, people must prepare their finance well for good investment. That requires to use only discretionary income for investment in Bitcoin and if any person, investor can do that, their Bitcoin investment will have very smooth and comfortable pathway to success and profit.

[Crytohillss]

[edited out]

If only profit drives person to buy bitcoin then they don't mind doing dumb thing as trading before having enough stash. Thinking profits can make people to market timers and price monitorers and from that they begin to look for how to sell their bitcoin and make the profit that their mind is always on

Real investors do not mess around with those unwanted thoughts. Investors thinking is of how to ongoingly invest for a cycle and more so to build enough bitcoin stash

Sometimes I start to think that the older forum members will start to understand that there is no reason to be messing around looking at price or profits or trying to promote those kinds of ideas etc.. or at least not allowing BTC price changes to affect the ongoing bitcoin accumulation that they likely need to continue to do, yet so many guys seem to get distracted by the price, and or  by profits... which likely puts them into a wrong mindset, especially since it tends to take so long to build up a bitcoin holdings, even for any guys that might be able to draw some money from some other investments that they have and to put that money into bitcoin.

Don't get me wrong, I have always plotted out my numbers to watch how much I was spending and how many BTC (satoshis) I was getting, so the numbers would add up to the total amount invested and the total amount of satoshis, and I could compare that to the price to see whether they were in profits or not (and by how much), but none of that keeping track affected what I was doing.. which, in the beginning was ongoingly buying BTC no matter the price.  Sure, maybe on certain weeks I would try to buy during the dips within the week, but at the end of the week, I would spend all of my bitcoin buying allowance for that week, since the next week was going to give me a new bitcoin buying allowance, and there was some value in ongoingly doing those weekly buys and ongoingly building up the bitcoin stash each week and sure from time to time to make sure that the money that was being spent was not going beyond discretionary funds, and to have enough in the discretionary funds for discretionary consumption that might come up between pay periods or maybe to just keep some of the discretionary funds as extra cash to have available, yet each week, also had an amount that went towards buying bitcoin.

Watching price and profit is a kind of human pattern especially when one have good money on the Line it's not always about getting distracted sometimes it is just people who try to make sense of where they stand, the consistency part is what most individuals underestimate sticking to a plan week after week regardless of noise is probably what separates those who are actually building something good from those who keeps second guessing.

[Qhunman]

Watching price and profit is a kind of human pattern especially when one have good money on the Line it's not always about getting distracted sometimes it is just people who try to make sense of where they stand, the consistency part is what most individuals underestimate sticking to a plan week after week regardless of noise is probably what separates those who are actually building something good from those who keeps second guessing.

I believe people that monitored the price of bitcoin regularly are those who invested with money they cannot afford to lose and if they continue do so it could affect their accumulation or distract them from accumulating bitcoin. That's why using discretionary income is the best way to invest in bitcoin because it gives you peace of mind against market violatility. You won't stress yourself monitoring the price of bitcoin or worry about market violatility since the money you invested is what you can afford to lose.

[Saltysugar99]

Sometimes I start to think that the older forum members will start to understand that there is no reason to be messing around looking at price or profits or trying to promote those kinds of ideas etc.. or at least not allowing BTC price changes to affect the ongoing bitcoin accumulation that they likely need to continue to do, yet so many guys seem to get distracted by the price, and or  by profits... which likely puts them into a wrong mindset, especially since it tends to take so long to build up a bitcoin holdings, even for any guys that might be able to draw some money from some other investments that they have and to put that money into bitcoin.

Don't get me wrong, I have always plotted out my numbers to watch how much I was spending and how many BTC (satoshis) I was getting, so the numbers would add up to the total amount invested and the total amount of satoshis, and I could compare that to the price to see whether they were in profits or not (and by how much), but none of that keeping track affected what I was doing.. which, in the beginning was ongoingly buying BTC no matter the price.  Sure, maybe on certain weeks I would try to buy during the dips within the week, but at the end of the week, I would spend all of my bitcoin buying allowance for that week, since the next week was going to give me a new bitcoin buying allowance, and there was some value in ongoingly doing those weekly buys and ongoingly building up the bitcoin stash each week and sure from time to time to make sure that the money that was being spent was not going beyond discretionary funds, and to have enough in the discretionary funds for discretionary consumption that might come up between pay periods or maybe to just keep some of the discretionary funds as extra cash to have available, yet each week, also had an amount that went towards buying bitcoin.

Watching price and profit is a kind of human pattern especially when one have good money on the Line it's not always about getting distracted sometimes it is just people who try to make sense of where they stand, the consistency part is what most individuals underestimate sticking to a plan week after week regardless of noise is probably what separates those who are actually building something good from those who keeps second guessing.

If I'm not wrong, JayJuanGee sir basically wants to say here that it is okay to track price, but price should not control the strategy. The real work is to buy regularly from discretionary income and build a stack over time. But @Crytohillss, as you said, people look at the price to understand their position, but in the case of long-term investors, they don't think much about their position in the short term. And for that purpose, don't even look at the Bitcoin price. The problem is not looking at the price, the problem is letting the price control your behavior. If you look at the price, but still don't break your weekly or monthly plan, then that's okay. But if you stop buying when you see the price, increase the temptation to sell, then you are no longer following the plan. You are running after the market. And most people get caught in this . They think they only understand their position, but in reality they slowly move away from the strategy and go into reaction mode.

Looking at price and profit is human nature. But long term success comes only when that vision doesn't change your mentality. Many people say "I am just checking where I stand" which quickly changes to "I think I should do something now". And that's where most people's mistakes start.

[ChocolateBitcoinK]

Watching price and profit is a kind of human pattern especially when one have good money on the Line it's not always about getting distracted sometimes it is just people who try to make sense of where they stand, the consistency part is what most individuals underestimate sticking to a plan week after week regardless of noise is probably what separates those who are actually building something good from those who keeps second guessing.

I believe people that monitored the price of bitcoin regularly are those who invested with money they cannot afford to lose and if they continue do so it could affect their accumulation or distract them from accumulating bitcoin. That's why using discretionary income is the best way to invest in bitcoin because it gives you peace of mind against market violatility. You won't stress yourself monitoring the price of bitcoin or worry about market violatility since the money you invested is what you can afford to lose.

And for those who decide to invest for the long term, there is no need to monitor the market situation regularly. Their responsibility is only to buy consistently, no matter the price, as soon as it makes sense to invest. But for those who monitor the market situation, they will think that the market movement will now be as they expect, and with this confidence they may buy Bitcoin with the intention of buying and selling with more money than they can afford, but later the market does not move as they expect, due to which they face unexpected losses. This is why we should refrain from worrying too much about market fluctuations, just buy consistently, this is the most suitable for long-term investment.

[Tongley]

Watching price and profit is a kind of human pattern especially when one have good money on the Line it's not always about getting distracted sometimes it is just people who try to make sense of where they stand, the consistency part is what most individuals underestimate sticking to a plan week after week regardless of noise is probably what separates those who are actually building something good from those who keeps second guessing.

I believe people that monitored the price of bitcoin regularly are those who invested with money they cannot afford to lose and if they continue do so it could affect their accumulation or distract them from accumulating bitcoin. That's why using discretionary income is the best way to invest in bitcoin because it gives you peace of mind against market violatility. You won't stress yourself monitoring the price of bitcoin or worry about market violatility since the money you invested is what you can afford to lose.

It is not like that, it completely depends on the plan of a person and his investment management. Watching the market price or speculating on the market price is a completely individual matter. If a person regularly speculates on the market price and if he does not deviate from the human nature of his investment, then it is not a bad thing. But if a person speculates on the market price and as a result, it affects his investment, then it is better for him not to do so.

Speculating for a new person can create a very bad effect on him. Because whenever a new person has very high expectations about the market price and speculates, if this speculation and expectation does not meet their wishes, then some kind of effect may be observed on them. For example, falling out of buying continuously.