Should people fighting for good on the forum receive positive trust?

[marcotheminer]

I've seen this on occasion - 'scam-busters' / DT / some like these, receive "doing good" as trust. Bit unnecessary at least/easy to game at worst, @theymos give us a hi-five button instead. Respect =/= trust. Wyt?

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[yahoo62278]

I'm not of the belief that someone should be given positive trust for exposing a scam. All they did was expose something that anyone with the knowledge should do anyways. Maybe give em a couple merits for their work.

With the trust system we are kind of limited as to what type of "reward" we can give users for certain actions. We have trust and merits, that's it. Some people feel like trust should be used only for traders, while others feel it should be used to tag spammers, account traders, scammers period, loan defaulters, and more.

This stuff is why I say we should have a trust system for traders and a reputation system for the rest. Merits do not exactly qualify as a reputation system. I also believe there should be a DT system associated with both systems.

What happens is theymos call but the more a topic is discussed, the more it could make something happen.

[The Cryptovator]

Just come on my mind something,

If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts

Everyone we are know that always will not happen what we like or dislike. Eventually we start fingering on scam busters ass. To be honest, if you would like to judge like that then major part of positive feedback's are just useless. Just imagine, why should I left positive feedback for trading especially when I am not going upfront? Why should we left positive feedback if you are doing good for community? Why should left feedback for scam buster who are helping community. If you are wondering similar then 100% feedback's are unnecessary which is quite unrealistic.


However, I don't know about other but I would describe why I have left positive feedback for scam buster. I didn't left positive feedback if someone suddenly just come on Scam Accusation board and make couple of scam post. Those people are spending their own time to help community by exposing scam and their activities is enough trustworthy then I left positive feedbacks for them. At least they are better then some spammer. Do you think that it's their responsibility to expose scam and spend many hours to hunt them? So what is your responsibility here. Do you think scam busters are saving lot of money directly and indirectly? I don't think they are doing it for gain positive feedbacks. Even when they didn't got positive feedback they expose many scams and after received positive feedback's they are doing same. If you know someone from scam buster doing wrong with community then shere it, perhaps DT members would leave him negative feedback. But we should not judge scam buster untrustworthy if behaviour isn't scammy.

I'm not of the belief that someone should be given positive trust for exposing a scam. All they did was expose something that anyone with the knowledge should do anyways. Maybe give em a couple merits for their work.

Here is almost 2.6 million user on bitcointalk, how many people are exposing scam actively. Every person's have different beliefs but it doesn't means other beliefs are wrong. I am not saying that everyone should leave positive feedback's for them or just anyone should not leave that when expose couple of scams. A scam buster overall activity should noticed during leave positive feedback. I might trust you for multiple reasons.

[LoyceV]

easy to game at worst

I disagree
It takes a lot of effort to be recognized on this forum for "fighting for good", while it's very easy to earn positive feedback by doing a few trades.
As an example: geophphreigh, has +4 positive feedback. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I am saying it's very easy to gain Trust by buying or selling some items on the Collectibles board.
If anyone wanted to game trust, that's the place to be!

I have received quite a bit of positive feedback for things like "one of the best members of the forum". And although I highly appreciate those, I think it's up to any future trade partner to judge the value of those feedbacks. But I sure as hell disagree that this is "easy to game": it's a hell of a lot of work!
I'd say there's a difference between a reputation based on trades, and a reputation based on forum actions, but unfortunately it's all dumped into the same feedback scores.

There's a risk though with Trusting "scam busters", and warningsigns is a good example of that: I knew the account for posting many warnings against possible scams, and in the end it disappeared with close to 5 BTC from a loan.

It all comes down to putting feedback into perspective. If I start asking for 5 BTC loans, you shouldn't just trust it! I think I can get away with $200, and probably more, but part of having a good reputation is staying far away from the limits of this reputation.

[bitmover]

I'd say there's a difference between a reputation based on trades, and a reputation based on forum actions, but unfortunately it's all dumped into the same feedback scores.

I agree.
There should be a different score for Scam Busters and other type of reputation scores. Your example about the scam buster who disappeared with 5 BTC is a good example that busting scammers doesn't mean the person is trusted to trade with.

Theymos mentioned he was going to make a badge for reporting posts, which is a great idea. Maybe badges for scam buster would be nice as well.

[DireWolfM14]

I've seen this on occasion - 'scam-busters' / DT / some like these, receive "doing good" as trust. Bit unnecessary at least/easy to game at worst, @theymos give us a hi-five button instead. Respect =/= trust. Wyt?

Positive feedback isn't the same thing as trust.  One might lead to the other but they are different things.  I think there would be a lot less drama related to the trust system if people would contemplate and acknowledge the differences.

Some members want the feedback and the trust system as a whole to be specifically for trading, but I disagree.  There are many reasons to give someone positive feedback (such as helping the community in general,) even if that person never engages in a trade.  A person who spends their time finding scammers is indirectly helping those of us who do trade on the forum.  There are also many good reasons to include such a person in your trust network.

[Welsh]

The users who are outing scams regularly, and are leaving accurate trust ratings might be a candidate for your custom trust list rather than giving them positive trust. I think in exceptional cases where users are dedicated to busting scams, and have shown that over a few years positive trust could be given. Although, a better suited way of handling it would be putting them on your trust list if you trust them to make good judgement calls, and leave accurate feedback. Of course, if they're just exposing these scams, and aren't leaving trust feedback then they aren't much good on your trust list.

[suchmoon]

It's quite clear on the trust page: "Positive - You think that this person is unlikely to scam anyone."

To me this means that even a successful deal shouldn't necessarily lead to positive trust, but on the other hand positive trust may be based not just on deals. If someone has been around for a long time, hasn't exhibited any questionable behavior, doesn't have a "get to the top at any cost" attitude - they might be considered "unlikely to scam". If someone has been applying for a bunch of micro loans or making tiny trades - they might not.

But this also means that it's going to be highly subjective. Everyone can have their own idea of how "unlikely" something is.

[vlom]

It's quite clear on the trust page: "Positive - You think that this person is unlikely to scam anyone."

To me this means that even a successful deal shouldn't necessarily lead to positive trust, but on the other hand positive trust may be based not just on deals. If someone has been around for a long time, hasn't exhibited any questionable behavior, doesn't have a "get to the top at any cost" attitude - they might be considered "unlikely to scam". If someone has been applying for a bunch of micro loans or making tiny trades - they might not.

But this also means that it's going to be highly subjective. Everyone can have their own idea of how "unlikely" something is.

thats a nice summary.
i never made a trade here. i am not a scam buster and i nearly report posts.
why should anybody trust me? but i looks like i have a green +. or am i wrong?

[suchmoon]

thats a nice summary.
i never made a trade here. i am not a scam buster and i nearly report posts.
why should anybody trust me? but i looks like i have a green +. or am i wrong?

You do have a +1 from JollyGood.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=550439;dt

If you're unlikely to scam anyone then you shouldn't worry about it

Beyond that, it comes down to how much other people trust JollyGood's judgement and if they include JollyGood into their trust lists.

[LoyceV]

If someone has been applying for a bunch of micro loans or making tiny trades - they might not.

I have a different take on this: Someone who's had many small loans apparently is often out of money, which probably means he's also "bad with money" in general.
I'd much rather trust someone who doesn't need the money at all, than someone who's all the time in need of small loans.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

My response to this would be not necessarily.  The first positive trust I got from a DT member was from Vod, which was this:

Fighting the good fight against scammers. Seems to have a solid head and a good grasp of what is right and wrong.

That was left after I started my crusade against account buyers/sellers, but I'd been a member of the forum for about a year and a half before he did.  I don't think there is anything wrong with that kind of feedback for scam busters, whether from DT or not, but I do think that the member receiving the feedback shouldn't be a newbie who's just started to bust scams. 

I think some members go that route right from the beginning, hoping to get onto DT because of it--and I've seen it before, and a couple of those members turned out to have abused bounties and such.  One of them was KeithBeeCham, whose reports I acted on quite frequently, but in the end I had to give him a negative feedback.

Anyway, positive trust from DT members should always be handed out conservatively, especially if it's one that doesn't have to do with money being at risk.  Non-DT members ought to be careful as well, because you never know if you're going to end up on DT (although a history of questionable feedback might preclude that anyway).

[TalkStar]

I always appreciate to encourage who are trying their best to keep this forum safer for newbies and upcoming users. Its not an easy task to continue deep investigation against scammers and every user who are doing this deserve our support. Who got scammed somehow only they can feel the pain of losing their money and undoubtedly they don't wanna get scammed again. Forum scam busters are making the way smoother for them for future investment and its undoubtedly worthy of getting green trust or merits.

Purpose of using this forum is to help its users by sharing proper information and revealing scam is one of them. People like to use this forum to enrich their knowledge vault with crypto currency related information and guideline and being well notified about scammers is an necessary element too.

It all comes down to putting feedback into perspective. If I start asking for 5 BTC loans, you shouldn't just trust it! I think I can get away with $200, and probably more, but part of having a good reputation is staying far away from the limits of this reputation.

Completely agree with you.

[Vod]

It takes a lot of effort to be recognized on this forum for "fighting for good", while it's very easy to earn positive feedback by doing a few trades.
As an example: geophphreigh, has +4 positive feedback. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I am saying it's very easy to gain Trust by buying or selling some items on the Collectibles board.

Good example!  A user sends payment up front, needing no trust at all, and is left positive trust by a DT1 member wanting reciprocation.  This happens a lot.  :/

[RapTarX]

In my opinion, a person who are here for long time and fighting against scams, is unlikely to scam anyone. Positive feedback represent the same theme. If someone is here for long term, leaving feedback is acceptable but for a short time like 6-12 months doesn't deserve a positive feedback for busting scammers. If DT people use positive feedback for busting scam to new people who are 6 months or 1 year old here (which is unlikely to be true), that would be a bad practice certainly. Scammers may try to feedback abusing and scam a bigger amount.