4/20 reform

[coins4commies]

I've been inspired by Andrew Yang's proposal to release all non-violent drug offenders on 4/20/2021 but I think it needs to go further.

A bit of background
-The US has an inacarceration rate of 693 per 100,000; the highest in the world
-Mass incarceration costs the US 1.2 trillion per year (6% of GDP)
https://source.wustl.edu/2016/09/cost-incarceration-u-s-1-trillion/
-This costly prison system is a complete failure: 77% of prisoners are rearrested within 5 years of release
https://thecrimereport.org/2018/04/09/recidivism-rates-unacceptably-high-says-sessions/
-US prisons have cruel, inhumane and degrading conditions which breed criminality
https://www.aclu.org/issues/prisoners-rights/cruel-inhuman-and-degrading-conditions

22% of these prisoners are in for non-violent drug offenses.  Andrew Yang's plan could provide instant savings at absolutely no cost but I want to take it a step further.

I'd love to give each of these people set free but also guaranteed $31,000 worth of cash payments and social counseling over their first year out to ensure they have a good chance at succeeding in society.  I chose that number because it is the average direct cost of housing someone in prison.  This is neutral money that can be subtracted from the amount you would save by doing Yang's plan.   

The difference between my plan and Yang's plan is my plan attempts to address the portion of the recidivism problem that goes beyond drug offenses.

This is by no means comprehensive.  We still need to get money out of prisons, fix the justice system, fix policing, completely redo prisons (shifting away from retribution and towards rehabilitation). That is a lot. We would almost need to destroy all of the prisons and law enforcement departments and rebuild them from scratch.

[sheenshane]

Well yes, there are a lot of characters we could blame because of these situations. Maybe it is because crime is one of the human's nature and before laws, crimes are everywhere that the old humans could consider as survival options. Now, I want to focus on the people who are using natural drugs that were imprisoned. 420 is celebrated by the people who are marijuana enthusiasts. They don't offend anyone except the law. However, marijuana's effect is nice but it in moderate use as well.

Your plan is nice, but you have to make sure that it will be worth it. The people who would like to help them should focus on educating them and disciplining them to become a better person.

[Beerwizzard]

I have no idea what Andrew Yang's would offer in his programme but there is a point that many new and young people on political arena are saying a complete bullshit and adding some good and obvious ideas like this one. You can pretty often see a programme, that starts from light drugs decriminalization and ends up with some bullshit like putting solar batteries on top of every building in US.
Decriminalization of light drugs if obviously a good thing but it is far not the main point you should put your attention to.

[Spendulus]

Give people who misbehave money. Yeah, that's brilliant (sarcasm).

[BitBustah]

Give people who misbehave money. Yeah, that's brilliant (sarcasm).

Most of this behavior is because a lack of money though.  Majority of crimes are because people are in dire financial stress  Not saying I agree with Yang completely or anything but  spending more each year on a prisoner to keep them locked up instead of trying to actually turn their lives around is stupid.  I don't believe any victimless crimes should ever be punished as the consequences only fall on that one person.

[squatz1]

Give people who misbehave money. Yeah, that's brilliant (sarcasm).

I know this thread is a bit old, but I do think that it is pretty relevant.


+1 to that.

I think this sort of idea is BEYOND stupid. I understand wanting to give people proper support for people that are addicted to drugs and are still addicted to drugs: Yes.

But giving money to people that are incarcerated just because they did bad things? No.

We shouldn't be incarcerating people for non violent drug crimes. Agree. It''s waste of resources all around. We're spending money on prisons, correctional officers, police officers, judes, and so on and so forth.

[BADecker]

Many people are in prison even though they hurt nobody, threatened nobody, and didn't damage the property of anybody. Why are they in there? Because:
1. Their attorney screwed them:
     a. By accident or out of attorney ignorance;
     b. For the money;
2. Because they didn't know how to use the simple, 4 legs of the table of defense that everybody has;
3. Or because they signed some paperwork with the court, and it landed them in prison.

Everybody who is in prison without having harmed, threatened, or damaged property of someone, should be released. They have done no wrong.

Their attorneys, and maybe their judges, should be imprisoned with their sentence instead.

Note that there will be a few cases that don't fit this, so all the cases should be examined.

[theymos]

One of the few things you and I agree on... Those people should never have been in prison in the first place, so releasing them is #1, but some compensation would be appropriate as well. In addition to the clear moral case against imprisoning people for victimless crimes, if you got this many people out of prison and back on their feet, imagine how good that'd be for the economy.

I love that Yang is promising to pardon non-violent drug offenders like this. Have any others made the same promise yet? This is absolutely something that any president could do on day 1. Ron Paul promised the same thing when he was running in 2012.

[squatz1]

One of the few things you and I agree on... Those people should never have been in prison in the first place, so releasing them is #1, but some compensation would be appropriate as well. In addition to the clear moral case against imprisoning people for victimless crimes, if you got this many people out of prison and back on their feet, imagine how good that'd be for the economy.

I love that Yang is promising to pardon non-violent drug offenders like this. Have any others made the same promise yet? This is absolutely something that any president could do on day 1. Ron Paul promised the same thing when he was running in 2012.

Well Yang and other Presidents can't really do all of this.

They can pardon the ones that have been arrested on the federal level. That's it. All of the state crimes would have to be pardoned by the governors, which may not be so on board. Most convictions for these non violent drug crimes are on the state level anyway.

While I do agree that people shouldn't be going to jail for 'victimless' crimes -- I do also think there is a clear problem with giving them money due to this. Is it truly sustainable, or is it just going to create administrative bloat where people never leave the system because government wants this system to be permanent instead of temporary like planned.

[PopoJeff]

Rewarding bad behavior only encourages further bad behavior.

[Rmcdermott927]

As someone who has never really liked how weed made me feel, I still don’t think it should be illegal.  It has proven medically beneficial for many people and does little harm.  It should be treated the same as alcohol, don’t use it then drive but make an adult decision if you wish to use it. 

And yes.  For Christ sake, take people out of jail for weed related crimes. 

[Spendulus]

As someone who has never really liked how weed made me feel, I still don’t think it should be illegal.  It has proven medically beneficial for many people and does little harm.  It should be treated the same as alcohol, don’t use it then drive but make an adult decision if you wish to use it. 

And yes.  For Christ sake, take people out of jail for weed related crimes. 

As has been mentioned, marihuana law is state law.

Each state that has legalized marihuana has IIRC followed with a release of prisoners for associated crimes.

Right now there are likely to be some interesting statistics develop.

Although I really doubt there is much difference in weed use between states where legal and states where not legal.

[Spendulus]

I've been inspired by Andrew Yang's proposal to release all non-violent drug offenders on 4/20/2021 but I think it needs to go further. ...I'd love to give each of these people set free but also guaranteed $31,000 worth of cash payments and social counseling over their first year ....

I have an even better idea. Why don't you pick a nearby prison, and stand outside and give each prisoner exiting part of your money?

Maybe it wouldn't go that far, but you might actually impress a percentage of them.

[coins4commies]

Thats pretty much the plan you see tax money is part of my money.

[BADecker]

^^^ They wouldn't have gotten very much from you either way. So, who really cares?

[coins4commies]

Thats why we have taxes. A little money from a lot of people is a lot of money. 

[Spendulus]

Thats why we have taxes. A little money from a lot of people is a lot of money. 

But a lot of people like me really don't trust you to handle our money.

I do, though, trust you to handle yours. I believe that even if all you could give them was a $10 bill, they would really be impressed.

[BADecker]

Thats why we have taxes. A little money from a lot of people is a lot of money. 

No. We have taxes for about 2 reasons:
1. Some people want to pay;
2. The others don't know the simple ways to bypass the IRS scam.

[coins4commies]

Thats why we have taxes. A little money from a lot of people is a lot of money. 

But a lot of people like me really don't trust you to handle our money.

I do, though, trust you to handle yours. I believe that even if all you could give them was a $10 bill, they would really be impressed.

I'm not asking anyone to trust me with their money.  I'm not running for office.  If people elect Yang, that means they trust his policies with their money.  Thats how democracy works.

[Spendulus]

Thats why we have taxes. A little money from a lot of people is a lot of money. 

But a lot of people like me really don't trust you to handle our money.

I do, though, trust you to handle yours. I believe that even if all you could give them was a $10 bill, they would really be impressed.

I'm not asking anyone to trust me with their money.  I'm not running for office.  If people elect Yang, that means they trust his policies with their money.  Thats how democracy works.

But just think if a hundred people standing outside the prison, waiting for released prisoners to walk by, each gave them $10. The ex-con would have $1000.

That'd buy a lot of crack.