[2019-04-22]American bitcoin trader may face death penalty over 'sea home'

[Lucius]

Still no news?

News is that Chad Elwartowski and his girlfriend are still in Thailand, for now they are safe but they are hiding and live in fear. I guess he want to stay with his girlfriend (she is have son and family), otherwise US Embassy would most likely have pulled him out of the country.

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2019/05/01/bitcoin-trader-chad-elwartowski-nadia-summergirl-seastead-still-running-from-thai-authorities/3643212002/

Has anyone seen a real legal analysis of this situation yet? Maritime law is definitely not my strong suit.

Maritime law does not really matter in this case, the government of Thailand accused them by this law :

“Section 119: Intent to cause injury to the nation” states that, “Whoever does any act with intent to cause the country or any part thereof to descend under the sovereignty of any foreign state, or to deteriorate the independence of the state, shall be punished with death or imprisonment for life.”
 
https://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30367972

[Last of the V8s]

still in Thailand

article doesn't say that
they aren't, thank god

[stompix]

still in Thailand

article doesn't say that
they aren't, thank god

I see no post from him but:

Last Active:   April 30, 2019, 03:36:25 PM

So at least he has some internet connection, any of the WOT members know more?

[Lucius]

still in Thailand

article doesn't say that
they aren't, thank god

Do you think they would hide if they have left Thailand? That would not make any sense, unless they are in a country that can extradited them to Thailand. Article does not say explicitly that they still are, but it can be concluded by a few sentences that were published.

"Nadia and I live in fear daily," Elwartowski told The Arizona Republic in an email interview. "We are still safe but we are in hiding.

In a Facebook post over the weekend, Elwartowski said he and Summergirl have been "avoiding social media to avoid making any mistakes that may reveal our location."

[stompix]

Oh, now that the article mentioned fb,I searched for his facebook and seems he did posts a few days ago:
https://www.facebook.com/chad.elwartowski

For those who don't want to open the link and go to fb:

Just checking in to let everyone know that Nadia and I are still safe. I have been avoiding social media to avoid making any mistakes that may reveal our location.
When this all started I was quite disheartened. I never wanted an ordinary life, I wanted to be different, to be extraordinary. But when the response to my extraordinary life was a death sentence I felt that perhaps there was no place in this world for thinking differently, perhaps I should resign myself to an ordinary life and just go with the flow. Give up on freedom.
But the outpouring of support that Nadia and I have received this past couple of weeks has been amazing. People from all walks of life, from all over the world have done some incredible things to help us. The people that have come through for us have done the extraordinary when they did not have to. For that I am both grateful and humbled.
There are so many people I would like to thank for keeping us alive. Some truly honorable people that I cannot mention due to discretion, but I hope they know that they made the right decision in helping us.
We will live. And we will continue to be extraordinary.

Since he says that he doesn't want to reveal his location, probably he is still in Thailand...

But, and there is a big but here
If he returns to the US, could he face extradition back to Thailand, I really doubt it since the US probably won't send one of their citizens to face a death sentence? If yes, what choices he has?

[snipie]

If he returns to the US, could he face extradition back to Thailand, I really doubt it since the US probably won't send one of their citizens to face a death sentence? If yes, what choices he has?

Sending a US citizen to Thailand to face a death sentence will just give Democrats a nice reason to tackle the whole government and even Trump himself. It will not happen.
His best choice is to get out of Thailand and/or find a route to US embassy...

[Jating]

To be really safe, he really needs to get out of Thailand, period. He can go to near by South East Asian country as refuge and go to US embassy. You don't want to stay in a Thailand jail even for 24 hours, that region has one of the worst prison ever.

I just pity Elwar though, he seems to be enjoying all the fruits of his hard work and of course his freedom because of crypto, but just in a blink of an eye, he is now living in a night mare.

I don't think that US will easily gave up on an American citizen to fail death penalty in some countries.

[legendster]

I don't think the Thai govt would go out of their way to toe a vessel from the international waters to its shore just to prosecute two modern hippies. If that were legal then there would be no term for 'international water'.

Plus Thai officials are corrupt as hell. Just pay them a few dollars or satoshis and they'd go home to bed their ladyboys.

Maritime law does not really matter in this case, the government of Thailand accused them by this law :

“Section 119: Intent to cause injury to the nation” states that, “Whoever does any act with intent to cause the country or any part thereof to descend under the sovereignty of any foreign state, or to deteriorate the independence of the state, shall be punished with death or imprisonment for life.”
 
https://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30367972

Yeah, but how is a sea vessel for 2 people constitute to become a threat to nation's sovereignty? Even if they were tried, it will not hold up in international court. Not to mention the slew of sanctions Thai gov will face.

[Theb]

Thailand is one of the countries who treats their death penalty seriously and Chad Elwartoski would be lucky if he gets away with a slap in the wrist. That's the bad thing of getting carried away with their ideal life they tend to forget  that they have certain responsibilities and obligations with the law before they even continue living the life they want. With Chad being a foreigner fishing food in Thailand's EEZ I think the Thai government would be easy to point fingers on him since he is really guilty of doing it.

[Lucius]

Yeah, but how is a sea vessel for 2 people constitute to become a threat to nation's sovereignty? Even if they were tried, it will not hold up in international court. Not to mention the slew of sanctions Thai gov will face.

You need to ask the Thai government about that, these are their laws and apply to everyone in that country. There is a case of some US citizen who get 2.5 years in prison just for insulting Thai king, so what can be expected for some serious offenses.

As mentioned before, it is not only about 2 people, but also for others who have plan to come there and become neighbors of Elwartowski&Nadia. International courts or sanctions have nothing to do with this, this is an internal matter of a country, and be sure that US will never impose sanctions on Thailand, even if they were to execute the death penalty on Elwartowski.

Who is interested in more about the relations of these countries : https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10253.pdf

[stompix]

Bumping this if anyone has news...

Elwar did make a post:

Bump for relevance.

pretty weird one, in this situation.

His fb account has posted something according to this but it has now been taken down.

His girlfriend fb account seems also active but no details, just posting news clips.

[bbc.reporter]

@stompix. They might be waiting for their sentence. There might not be much for them to do except browse the internet for news and check social media to contact family and friends.

I reckon someone in the forum who is a friend to him should open a thread to make everyone in the community aware of this issue. Does he need donations?

[Last of the V8s]

^ we'd've heard if they'd been captured
we heard they were in a different country anyway
there are ~5 threads on different aspects
2 weeks ago he posted - and then deleted - that they were ok 'thanks to btc'

i get the impression he doesn't need too much noise, and is quite capable of asking if he needs anything

[snipie]

i get the impression he doesn't need too much noise, and is quite capable of asking if he needs anything

You want to close a potential source of information for the Thai secret intelligence agency? 
/serious : hope they are ok and indeed i respect their privacy as you said LOTV8s.

[Vishnu.Reang]

If he don't want to waste the remainder of his life in some dark Thai prison cell, he should seriously consider applying for a Royal pardon. There is no other option in front of him. His American passport can make things a lot easier, as this option is not open for the vast majority of the third world citizens. He should hire a local attorney and then press for a pardon.

[vit05]

Bumping this if anyone has news...

Elwar did make a post:

Bump for relevance.

pretty weird one, in this situation.

His fb account has posted something according to this but it has now been taken down.

His girlfriend fb account seems also active but no details, just posting news clips.

His girlfriend instagram has posted 5 days ago this:

The funder behind Ocean.builders #seastead

In 2018, Rudiger Koch first created his prototype: He got plans for oil rigs and built a miniature version of them: XLII
..he founded a company he called "Ocean Builders"... A German restaurateur who emigrated to Thailand wanted to know if Koch could build an underwater restaurant for him.

For added stability, he wanted to grow a coral reef around the platform over time ... The American Bitcoin millionaire Chad Elwartowski and his Thai friend Supranee Thepdet were to live as guests on his platform. "They wanted to live there," says the engineer Koch
Rüdiger Koch...has written to the military attaché of the Thai embassy in Singapore and wants to negotiate with the government ... He wanted to bring investors to Thailand and promote tourism with floating platforms. "I'm sorry, I did not want to upset the Thais." Link 👇🏽👇🏽👇🏽 https://www.zeit.de/2019/20/ruediger-koch-seasteading-schwimmende-plattform-thailand-todesstrafe/komplettansicht

Do you Really Love My Planet.?.
Support (me) @bitcoingirlthailand
Thank you 🙏🏽 🙌🏽👌🏽😉....

https://www.instagram.com/bitcoingirlthailand/

[stompix]

i get the impression he doesn't need too much noise, and is quite capable of asking if he needs anything

Agree with this one!

The Thai government did this show of force in order to send a message, just like a propaganda machine.
Now that the hype has died down and less than 0.01% follow up they might tone done their enthusiasm and simple drop the charges when nobody cares about it anymore.
Politics at it's finest!!

[vit05]

i get the impression he doesn't need too much noise, and is quite capable of asking if he needs anything

Agree with this one!

The Thai government did this show of force in order to send a message, just like a propaganda machine.
Now that the hype has died down and less than 0.01% follow up they might tone done their enthusiasm and simple drop the charges when nobody cares about it anymore.
Politics at it's finest!!

If they simply desisted from any punishment, it would be a great show of weakness and imbecility. I believe that the best solution for everyone, is a negotiation through some world organization or with the help of another country that offers protection.

[bbc.reporter]

i get the impression he doesn't need too much noise, and is quite capable of asking if he needs anything

Agree with this one!

The Thai government did this show of force in order to send a message, just like a propaganda machine.
Now that the hype has died down and less than 0.01% follow up they might tone done their enthusiasm and simple drop the charges when nobody cares about it anymore.
Politics at it's finest!!

You can only dream that it is only about politics. However, some Asian governments can be very crazy also and make it a moral victory if they have a westerner imprisoned or given the death penalty.

This might require a Trump intervention, I reckon.

[stompix]

If they simply desisted from any punishment, it would be a great show of weakness and imbecility.

Lols, and who will know that?
In just a month probably 99% of the people have forgotten about the case, 99.9% will never hear the outcome.

But I'm willing to bet that if you bring up the discussion about building a seastead near Thailand the reaction of your friends is going to be ..you want to get hunted like that American guy?

You can only dream that it is only about politics. However, some Asian governments can be very crazy also and make it a moral victory if they have a westerner imprisoned or given the death penalty.

Yeah, and that moral victory is not about politics?
They acting like crazy and trying to send a message is not about politics?
National pride is all about politics, about trying to show your citizens, neighbors, partners, and your enemies your resolve and your strength. Unfortunately, most only show how stupid they are.