Bitcoin Forum
May 14, 2024, 01:56:57 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Are empty blocks without txns allowed ?  (Read 1186 times)
auzaar (OP)
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 151
Merit: 100



View Profile
March 13, 2014, 06:36:42 AM
 #1

Is this allowed?

https://blockchain.info/block-index/475455/0000000000000000052cb46227baeb2dc70ab51a554433262cf89378696903d9

Looks like a empty block mined with no transaction (except for the mining reward of 25 BTC)

Questions:
1. Why would a miner do this and not include any transaction missing the fees?
2. If everybody started doing this bitcoin will be mined but no transactions will occur, is it a flaw?
1715695017
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715695017

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715695017
Reply with quote  #2

1715695017
Report to moderator
1715695017
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715695017

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715695017
Reply with quote  #2

1715695017
Report to moderator
1715695017
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715695017

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715695017
Reply with quote  #2

1715695017
Report to moderator
Every time a block is mined, a certain amount of BTC (called the subsidy) is created out of thin air and given to the miner. The subsidy halves every four years and will reach 0 in about 130 years.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1715695017
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715695017

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715695017
Reply with quote  #2

1715695017
Report to moderator
1715695017
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715695017

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715695017
Reply with quote  #2

1715695017
Report to moderator
Foxpup
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 4354
Merit: 3044


Vile Vixen and Miss Bitcointalk 2021-2023


View Profile
March 13, 2014, 07:13:24 AM
 #2

1. Why would a miner do this and not include any transaction missing the fees?
To reduce the size of the block, thereby reducing transmission time and the chance it will be orphaned, which would lose not only the transaction fees but also the block subsidy. As the block subsidy decreases, so does incentive to drop fee-paying transactions, so this will not be an issue in the long term. In the short term, raising transaction fees is an option if too many miners start doing this.

2. If everybody started doing this bitcoin will be mined but no transactions will occur, is it a flaw?
It's a flaw in the miner's business plan once people start paying greater transaction fees that the miner is missing out on. Competition will ensure that only miners who actually include transactions (and take the fees) will remain profitable.

Will pretend to do unspeakable things (while actually eating a taco) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
I am not on the scammers' paradise known as Telegram! Do not believe anyone claiming to be me off-forum without a signed message from the above address! Accept no excuses and make no exceptions!
ivroer
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 89
Merit: 14


View Profile
March 13, 2014, 07:15:22 AM
 #3

Is this allowed?

Yes, as you can see by now other miners have built on top of that block.

Quote
Questions:
1. Why would a miner do this and not include any transaction missing the fees?
2. If everybody started doing this bitcoin will be mined but no transactions will occur, is it a flaw?

1. Why? because they can.
What other reasons might cause a miner to mine a block like this.
  • There's no other unconfirmed transactions in their memory pool, unlikely
  • The mining software might be quickly issuing work based on the previous block header before syncing its mempool based on the transactions in that block. Basically trying to get a headstart on other miners with a small chance of quickly solving an "empty" block*

2. It shouldn't happen. Miners would be missing out on accumulating transaction fees, and would ruin the network making their rewards worthless.
"Empty" blocks are going to happen from time to time, they won't make up the majority of blocks while the Bitcoin network is still actively utilized.

*A mining pool operator might be able to shed light on this. I'm guessing that if there is a short period of time that a miner is working on an empty block, they are generating a valid merkle tree of unconfirmed transactions in the background and then start working on that instead of an empty block.

Parliament
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 52
Merit: 0



View Profile
March 13, 2014, 07:22:12 AM
 #4

This most likely happened because the miner did not receive any transactions between the last block and this one: block 290330 is timestamped 06:29:04, while the block in question is timestamped 06:30:18.

Someone got very lucky.
BitCoinDream
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2324
Merit: 1204

The revolution will be digital


View Profile
March 13, 2014, 07:24:11 AM
 #5

But miners will automatically get 25 BTC by mining these kind of a block ...right ?

spin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 362
Merit: 261


View Profile
March 13, 2014, 01:54:56 PM
 #6

It has to be possible.  Almost all the initial blocks were empty as there weren't that many transactions to mine.

e.g.
https://blockchain.info/block/00000000b69bd8e4dc60580117617a466d5c76ada85fb7b87e9baea01f9d9984
https://blockchain.info/block/0000000099c744455f58e6c6e98b671e1bf7f37346bfd4cf5d0274ad8ee660cb
etc

If you liked this post buy me a beer.  Beers are quite cheap where I live!
bc1q707guwp9pc73r08jw23lvecpywtazjjk399daa
piotr_n
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2053
Merit: 1354


aka tonikt


View Profile WWW
March 13, 2014, 04:43:01 PM
 #7


no Smiley

Check out gocoin - my original project of full bitcoin node & cold wallet written in Go.
PGP fingerprint: AB9E A551 E262 A87A 13BB  9059 1BE7 B545 CDF3 FD0E
Taras
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1386
Merit: 1053


Please do not PM me loan requests!


View Profile WWW
March 13, 2014, 06:09:46 PM
 #8

 What if after all bitcoins are mined there is a block with no transactions, not even generation?
Hawkix
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 531
Merit: 505



View Profile WWW
March 13, 2014, 06:42:20 PM
 #9

Each block improves security of blockchain. Even empty one.

Donations: 1Hawkix7GHym6SM98ii5vSHHShA3FUgpV6
http://btcportal.net/ - All about Bitcoin - coming soon!
Ix
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 218
Merit: 128


View Profile
March 14, 2014, 05:16:49 AM
 #10

What if after all bitcoins are mined there is a block with no transactions, not even generation?

Probably unlikely because they will be wasting some kind of PoW resource for no return at all. Miners probably won't start mining unless they have transactions to make it worth it. It could be being used to attack the network by delaying transactions, but this is a well-known attack vector--while it doesn't make economic sense, it can be done.
fsb4000
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1000



View Profile
March 14, 2014, 11:12:31 AM
 #11

Blocks with only 1 transaction: 84429  Cry
http://blockr.io/trivia/block
BitOnyx
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10

Cryptocurrencies Exchange


View Profile WWW
March 14, 2014, 11:25:11 AM
 #12

IT happens but it is hard to say if it is allowed or not.

Foxpup
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 4354
Merit: 3044


Vile Vixen and Miss Bitcointalk 2021-2023


View Profile
March 15, 2014, 03:34:35 AM
 #13

IT happens but it is hard to say if it is allowed or not.
What are you talking about? It's allowed. It's not hard to say that. Anything that's not allowed will be rejected by all nodes and those blocks will not become part of the blockchain.

Will pretend to do unspeakable things (while actually eating a taco) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
I am not on the scammers' paradise known as Telegram! Do not believe anyone claiming to be me off-forum without a signed message from the above address! Accept no excuses and make no exceptions!
Nancarrow
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 492
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 15, 2014, 10:36:48 AM
 #14

Back in 2012 or early 2013, I dunno, back when I still had a GPU farm to gaze at fondly, there was an extended period of time when someone was producing a large number of empty blocks - people called them the 'Mystery Miner' and speculated they were using a botnet and didn't want to waste time and/or increase detectability by listening out for transactions. I suppose they closed up shop when the ASICs came along. Anyway you could do a search on 'Mystery Miner', there was a lot of buzz at the time, though of course everyone in the know pointed out that it isn't a big problem, just delays valid transactions a little. Oh also there's a poster called MysteryMiner but I think they just chose the name for the lulz. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em...


If I've said anything amusing and/or informative and you're feeling generous:
1GNJq39NYtf7cn2QFZZuP5vmC1mTs63rEW
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!