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Author Topic: Tried to send 216681 satoshis from electrum wallet it says 21280 sent fee 187257  (Read 218 times)
stdorn01
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April 25, 2019, 08:23:06 AM
Last edit: April 25, 2019, 10:17:06 AM by stdorn01
 #1

I tried to cash out (around $11) from my electrum wallet to paytiz.com they received (around $1.11) how can this be? Tried to send 211280 satoshis from electrum wallet it says 21280 satoshis sent fee 187257 satoshis. Final balance was 2742 satoshis. How did I lose $10. Electrum cant have possibly charge me 90% on a transfer could they? Paypal then charged me 30% so after expecting about $11 I got $0.78. If this is correct I am done with bit coins. What gives?

to NC50lc   the transaction ID was ba27a8d4f4565d165fac9b8de4125188df685b119858d3666bce84b236736c49

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April 25, 2019, 08:32:39 AM
 #2

You've probably set a huge transaction fee along with multiple inputs (20+) which could be the cause of that ridiculously high total transaction fee.
Bitcoin's fee is all based to the total size of the transaction and the rate per byte.

If you don't mind, can you share the TXID of that transaction?

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April 25, 2019, 08:54:13 AM
Merited by OgNasty (1), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #3

Since you tried to cash out $11 I assume that you had a huge amount of small inputs, dust-like transactions that caused the fess to be so high.
Before you send a transaction you need to check the current state of the mempool to be able to determine what fees to use to get your transaction to go through.
In Electrum you have a slider where you can set your own fees and you need to check the set fees before your broadcast your transaction.

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April 25, 2019, 09:32:25 AM
 #4

Tried to send 211280 satoshis from electrum wallet it says 21280 satoshis sent fee 187257 satoshis. Final balance was 2742 satoshis. How did I lose $10.
Forget about dollar amounts, you're dealing with Bitcoin.
It's too late now, but next time you should check the transaction details before sending the transaction. If you don't like the fee, change it to a lower amount.

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April 25, 2019, 09:42:22 AM
Merited by OgNasty (1), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #5

stdorn01, there is also Preview button in Electrum, so before you actually click on Send you can check everything related to transaction. There you can see how much fee (in total) you will pay, size of transaction, number of inputs / outputs and all relevant information.

As nc50lc say, your transaction is very big in size, probably over 1000 bytes and more then 20 inputs. Just for example, for a standard transaction with 20 inputs and 2 outputs for 2 block confirmation fee is 337218 satoshis or 18$+ based on https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/fee-calculator/

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April 25, 2019, 10:37:25 AM
Merited by Jet Cash (5), Foxpup (4), philipma1957 (2), bones261 (2), LoyceV (1)
 #6

Bitcoin fees are based on two things: the size in bytes of the data involved in the transaction, and how much fee you pay per each byte.

Your transaction had 22 inputs, all made up of a small fraction of your total amount of bitcoin. When coins are deposited to an address, those coins remain separate, even though they are in the same place. Think of it like putting quarters in a jar. You can add 20 quarters to the jar, and then you'll have $5 all in the same place, but each coin is very much separate. If you want to spend that $5, you have to take all the quarters out and count each one individually. The same is true of a bitcoin. You have to take all 22 inputs and spend each one individually, and each one requires its own allocation of data.* This meant your transaction was quite large at 3320 bytes. The value of the coin in USD doesn't matter for working out the size of the transaction in bytes.

The second factor is how much you paid in fees for each byte. Fees are a little bit on the higher side at the moment, but you can still easily get away with fees of 2 or 3 sats/bytes. If you had paid this, your fees would have been around $0.50 or less. However, you paid 56 sats/byte. When your transaction confirmed on the 21st at around 21:00 UTC, the mempool was practically empty, and you paid way more in fees than you needed to. Indeed, in the block your transaction was included in, there were a number of transactions paying only 1 sat/byte, which for you would have worked out at $0.18.

In summary, your transaction contained many small inputs, which could potentially be avoided by not repeatedly withdrawing tiny amounts from whereever you are withdrawing them from and instead waiting to withdraw one large amount, and you paid way too much in fees. To go back to my analogy, you've essentially tried to pay a $5 bill by mailing 20 quarters individually, each in its own stamped envelope and paid for special tracked delivery for each envelope.

*Now that all these coins have been spent in the same transaction and sent to the same address, they will be combined in to one coin, much like if you gave your 20 quarters to someone and they handed you back a 5 dollar bill in return.

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April 25, 2019, 01:17:36 PM
 #7

Looks like you paid a massive transaction fee to get your transaction into a block. Electrum should tell you the transaction fee needed to carry out your transaction before you send. Nothing you can do about it now except to make sure you dont make the same mistake in the future. If you are transacting smaller amounts you would be better off doing it through a altcoin as the transaction fees are a lot lower in general and the competition to get into a block is non-existent.
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April 25, 2019, 06:08:30 PM
 #8

Well, the problem about this transaction is all the inputs as you can see:

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/ba27a8d4f4565d165fac9b8de4125188df685b119858d3666bce84b236736c49

If you create a transaction with a lot of inputs you will have a big transaction (talking about size in kb) and this will make you have to pay bigger fees than normal.

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April 25, 2019, 07:19:18 PM
Last edit: April 25, 2019, 09:35:53 PM by BitMaxz
 #9

According to your transaction ID with this bitcoin address 1G6Dbk1iiNgBKVVXLXS66L9vViGHCCkn6A there are 22 inputs which I think the reason why you pay a large fee in your transaction.

The estimated size of the transaction according to coinb.in/#fees is around 3334 bytes which is too big.

If you have extra time you may read this first below.

How to manually set transaction fees in Electrum Bitcoin Wallet


Use this tool below to estimate the recommended fee
https://coinb.in/#fees

and next time better to put the amount fee manually to make sure that you are in the right direction. As what other said always use the preview button before you broadcast or sign the transaction.

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April 25, 2019, 10:58:24 PM
 #10

Electrum cant have possibly charge me 90% on a transfer could they?
Electrum (and wallets in general) DO NOT "charge" you transaction fees... That is not how Bitcoin works. Your transaction includes a fee that becomes part of the "reward" paid to a miner for mining the block. Fee rates are used as a way to "prioritise" your transaction, you want fast confirmation? == BIG fee... you don't care how long it takes? == use low fee.


Quote
Paypal then charged me 30% so after expecting about $11 I got $0.78. If this is correct I am done with bit coins. What gives?
As others have already explained... using a LOT of small value inputs results in a transaction that has a large data size... transaction fees are generally calculated on the overall "data" size (currently termed "weight" since the implemenation of SegWit) of the transaction not the "value" of the transaction.

As your transaction was very large from a data size perspective... over 3000 bytes, whereas a "typical" transaction with 1 input and 2 outputs is around 200 bytes. So, your transaction was about 15 times larger than a normal transaction. The result being that while the fee rate paid of 56 satoshis/byte wasn't overly excessive... the total fee paid seems relatively high... as 3334 * 56 = ~186000 sats... or ~90% of what you were attempting to send.

I'm not sure why Electrum subtracted the fee from the amount you were attempting to send instead of "adding" it tho... possibly because your total balance wasn't high enough? But I thought it would just say "insufficient funds" in that instance? Huh

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April 26, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
 #11

I'm not sure why Electrum subtracted the fee from the amount you were attempting to send instead of "adding" it tho... possibly because your total balance wasn't high enough? But I thought it would just say "insufficient funds" in that instance? Huh
If you click "Max" on the send page in Electrum, it will automatically populate the "fee" field with whatever your settings dictate, and then fill in the "transaction amount" field with whatever is left over. You can even user the slider or manually change the fee, and it will automatically adjust how much you are sending so that your transaction amount and your fee combined always equals all your bitcoin in that wallet.

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April 26, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
 #12

Agreed you probably did not notice that you got yourself into a big lost of trasaction fee.

Maybe this can help I think that of it have a transaction fee colum that you did not notice at all so in the end you got yourself a bit of big lost.

Second if it does not contian any transaction fee colum to my experiences it will and be automatically subtracted will is a fee to them, not knowing. So my solution is try to get into another wallet that deducts fees thatvis small or a wallet that you can usually manipulate the transaction fee.


You've probably set a huge transaction fee along with multiple inputs (20+) which could be the cause of that ridiculously high total transaction fee.
Bitcoin's fee is all based to the total size of the transaction and the rate per byte.

If you don't mind, can you share the TXID of that transaction?

Also yes, I second the motion usually fee is all base of the transaction but if you are allowed to change your fee you can but as you may know that it will take long because of traffic. Not saying that losing 90 percent for the fee is small, okay. Like other said the higher trasactiom the higher the fee and to my view thatbis not normal your solution is what I said above.
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April 27, 2019, 02:31:47 AM
Merited by bones261 (2)
 #13

-snip-
Stop beating the dead horse, Electrum have full control when creating a transaction.
It's just OP's first time to handle a wallet with almost complete function.

Also yes, I second the motion usually fee is all base of the transaction but if you are allowed to change your fee you can but as you may know that it will take long because of traffic. Not saying that losing 90 percent for the fee is small, okay. Like other said the higher trasactiom the higher the fee and to my view thatbis not normal your solution is what I said above.
That's the second reply when the OP wasn't edited yet, it's on point.
The problem was his transaction's number of inputs which caused the high transaction size, if he lower the fee to 20sat/byte it will still be relatively high in terms of dollar equivalent.
The real solution is learn to Consolidate the inputs to minimize the next or future transaction's sizes which will decrease the total fee significantly,
a 1->1 transaction will cost less (about 13,000sat) even with 60sat/byte rate.

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May 04, 2019, 01:00:44 AM
 #14

I tried to cash out (around $11) from my electrum wallet to paytiz.com they received (around $1.11) how can this be? Tried to send 211280 satoshis from electrum wallet it says 21280 satoshis sent fee 187257 satoshis. Final balance was 2742 satoshis. How did I lose $10. Electrum cant have possibly charge me 90% on a transfer could they? Paypal then charged me 30% so after expecting about $11 I got $0.78. If this is correct I am done with bit coins. What gives?

to NC50lc   the transaction ID was ba27a8d4f4565d165fac9b8de4125188df685b119858d3666bce84b236736c49

And this is why you should always use that preview button, you even had a little extra chance because it asks you the password before the broadcast...
Also Electrum has extra options to spread coins for more inputs, "to increase anonymity", maybe you had that enabled too?

What you should have done is enable the set fees manually and use the mempool option, this allows you to set it to 1sat/b, the smallest. If you are not in a hurry, the smallest works just fine. I never trust wallets setting it automatically.

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