Keep the beloved collectibles section safe

[El duderino_]

Hey, just to know if something as this ever happened already in here or has been caught or something...

I love to hang out @ collectibles and I have very good trust in many of the collectible guys, some of you know I do especially for my relative short period of being among you guys.

But there is something that worries me a bit and I just wanna know if there is something as this happened already or the members in here have already deal with such a problem?

Just for example the NEWS papers auction, starting bid 40BTC, not much traction, 20BTC still quiet, now starting from 0.0BTC

So we have a very nice opportunity for who wants this piece of history/investment.... But let us say the last day its still around 3.75BTC (probably maybe not) but let us say its a disappointing bid, what if the OP has an alt account or works together with some one to last bid in such case to just keep the item in his own possession or drive up the price? When trusted members bid among each other or so its probably nothing but when low activity account etc are getting in the mix, that worries me a bit.    (nothing to the OP of that auction, just an example of an expensive item, what I hope will appear more and auctioned in the safest way as possible)

Or let us say somebody proxy bid for me, I have had some guys proposing to do so for me, but how can I really trust this? (Lucky I have someone I fully trust for this) but just to know how the collectible section thinks about this and if something with wrong intentions have been caught before??

If there are any idea's as well on how we can stay save or exclude such things or .........

Just share thought and idea's how to keep this collectibles section as save as possible, there is always room for improvement, even when nothing has happened, prevention is better than cure.

(Still I don't wanna show any negativity, cause I have only been threaded A+++, just wanna see it remains this way for me and new or other users)
  

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[JanEmil]

If you don't bid more than the item is worth for you all is good. If the price get to high it is no problem to buy something else.

[TMAN]

The moment newbies come in and start bidding is the moment it will all kick off, it’s a super high value item with a value that isn’t tied to BTC value, if a brand new account starts bidding and the seller doesn’t show me the proof of funds from the newbie I will tag the seller and pull out of my bids.

[El duderino_]

If you don't bid more than the item is worth for you all is good. If the price get to high it is no problem to buy something else.

Thats a fact and very true, I will not bid higher as I intend, only if one put something in auction and it turns out bad, then they can just bid themself and keep the item.... That worries me a bit with higher valued items.

Then you start bidding with knowing of not having a 100% fair chance  

Such an item as that paper would already need to been send in escrow to know its out for real and maybe to been snatched on a real honest auction
Cause there will always be biddings on it.

-Again nothing against the paper OP, just as an example on a higher value Item thats for auctioning (Sorry I din't wanna let you look untrustworthy!)

So is it bad like with +2-3-4-5BTC value items or something, the item should be given to the most trustworthy escrow or something??

Btw just idea's that i'm trying to get...

[yogg]

The moment newbies come in and start bidding is the moment it will all kick off, it’s a super high value item with a value that isn’t tied to BTC value, if a brand new account starts bidding and the seller doesn’t show me the proof of funds from the newbie I will tag the seller and pull out of my bids.

Yes. Beware of shill bidding.
Some note very scrupulous sellers allowed newbies to bid without deposit/proof of funds and it turned out these newbie accounts were some of the seller's shill accounts, so the auction ends up higher.
There have been several occurrences of this happening.

[El duderino_]

The moment newbies come in and start bidding is the moment it will all kick off, it’s a super high value item with a value that isn’t tied to BTC value, if a brand new account starts bidding and the seller doesn’t show me the proof of funds from the newbie I will tag the seller and pull out of my bids.

But so you do understand my concern for a bit?

But a new account, or just an older account that haven't been used a lot (Alt account with maybe some activity....)
If i'm thinking to far maybe (but forum brothers people that know each other IRL etc

Edit: Then again its especially with high value items.......

[yogg]

Edit: Then again its especially with high value items.......

Not necessarily.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4468062
Newbie bidder didn't honour a 0.009BTC bid.

So yeah, I am totally in favor of taking appropriate steps to prevent this.
Like .. asking for a security deposit to consider bids as valid ?

It is even better than proof of funds, because one can have funds, bid, but no intent to pay whatsoever. (reverse Fattcatt)

[wheelz1200]

The moment newbies come in and start bidding is the moment it will all kick off, it’s a super high value item with a value that isn’t tied to BTC value, if a brand new account starts bidding and the seller doesn’t show me the proof of funds from the newbie I will tag the seller and pull out of my bids.

But so you do understand my concern for a bit?

But a new account, or just an older account that haven't been used a lot (Alt account with maybe some activity....)
If i'm thinking to far maybe (but forum brothers people that know each other IRL etc

Edit: Then again its especially with high value items.......

Shill bidding is easily snuffed out.  For me once I see someone I've never seen before make a baller bid ($10k usd worth of btc) on something like a newspaper I'm usually out.  I'm not saying it's wrong or anything I just dont want to be upbid by a possible seller alt bid.  Has it happened, probably yes will it keep happening, yes nothing we can do about it.  So I just remove myself from that auction and not look back. 

[chronicsky]

Shill bidding is definitely not new here so i totally get your point.

I think it comes up to the OP to see that there is enough proof from the newbie before he makes a bid. If they are from some other forum where they have trust, that would count as well.

but in the end, we can't really no for sure ever.
As JanEmil says, stop when you don't find it satisfying

[krogothmanhattan]

It happens most of the time on Denariums auctions..newbies bidding...and when brought up they say its from people outside of the forum thru their website.

I have also seen other auctions where they announce on Twitter an auction and you have people sign up for the auction as newbies.

They can be legit and then again they might not be. Is there anyway around to verify all this? Most likely not.

So its tough to see if a person is legit or is shill bidding.

[JanEmil]

@krogothmanhattan

Fortunately shill bidders will end up holding their item forever when they fail

[TMAN]

Proof of funds or deposit on escrow.  Only way to make it clean really

[wheelz1200]

Proof of funds or deposit on escrow.  Only way to make it clean really

Yeah t that works for newbies jumping in but I think goose is worried about the OP not liking his current price and shill bidding with his own alt.  Last minute newbies jumping in a high dollar auction is definately suspect but nothing can stop that.

[N0sferatu]

Proof of funds or deposit on escrow.  Only way to make it clean really

True.

What about adding special terms to an auction, something like:

Code:

If you aren't at least a full member, you will need to sign a message from a wallet containing enough funds to cover your bid.
If you can't do that, your bid becomes invalid and i am going to leave a negative feedback on your account.

"full member" is only an example. You guys know better which rank might fit here.

Knowing that only 2.3% of BTC wallets with balance hold more than 1BTC, there shouldn't be many low ranked members able to fulfill such request.
Alt accounts wouldn't have a chance neither - once a wallet was signed, it will always be attached to one specific bitcointalk user.

Of course there still is the chance to receive shill bids by high ranked users unfortunately.

[El duderino_]

Thx for letting me know i'm not the only one thinking about this,

But for a starter I would suggest that some of the more established Collectible members or something maybe can agree on something with the higher value items for starters?

Or let auction start and from the moment a newbie/LOW rank/LOW trusted member appears we can have a rule or something they have to fulfill or something....
(I'm not very good of what the rules should be)
Or could easily be a trusted escrow that holds on to the item, but then again, the owner can bid himself or something....

Why we need something, is just for being protected on having a fair chance to buy the desired item.....

Also new guys should have their chance of buying stuff as well, take me for example I made my first buys and bids and always came clean through it, and there will be many as that as well...

[El duderino_]

Also nothing against Wryghteous, but in the newspaper thread he's bidding and when I looked to he's account I didn't saw any trust or nothing of ratings, though he made a lot of bids....

[wheelz1200]

Also nothing against Wryghteous, but in the newspaper thread he's bidding and when I looked to he's account I didn't saw any trust or nothing of ratings, though he made a lot of bids....

They are fine, been around the collectable board buying/bidding before.  If I was selling the paper I'd have zero issue with their bids.

Let's not confuse this, we DON'T want to discourage new people from coming in, remember we ALL were new buying selling on here.  I encourage new people coming here, I'm just weary of newbies I've never seen bid last minute on a high value item that might not be getting what market value is.  Those bids are subject even with a signed message from a wallet containing the funds.

I dont want to discourage new people in here we should embrace them.  I dont like when people act elitist, I mean it's such a small niche we are in we have no room to close doors

[El duderino_]

Also nothing against Wryghteous, but in the newspaper thread he's bidding and when I looked to he's account I didn't saw any trust or nothing of ratings, though he made a lot of bids....

They are fine, been around the collectable board buying/bidding before.  If I was selling the paper I'd have zero issue with their bids.

Let's not confuse this, we DON'T want to discourage new people from coming in, remember we ALL were new buying selling on here.  I encourage new people coming here, I'm just weary of newbies I've never seen bid last minute on a high value item that might not be getting what market value is.  Those bids are subject even with a signed message from a wallet containing the funds.

I dont want to discourage new people in here we should embrace them.  I dont like when people act elitist, I mean it's such a small niche we are in we have no room to close doors

I 100% agree with you, as I say I was having a very warm welcome around here with 0 of problems and I encourage new members for coming and expand this world of collectible items as well

But as you say, newbie accounts or very new accounts or whiteout a lot of activity.... they should be a bit of flexible if there would be any rule when we have some special or higher value stuff to sell, or just when the OP or another member would ask for it, its all in meaning for the best and not to insult anyone, if I have this question or problem I will always follow to verify i'm good for my bid/action... 

As I also say i'm a newer guy in here as the member who's name I posted, so again nothing against him

[wheelz1200]

Also nothing against Wryghteous, but in the newspaper thread he's bidding and when I looked to he's account I didn't saw any trust or nothing of ratings, though he made a lot of bids....

They are fine, been around the collectable board buying/bidding before.  If I was selling the paper I'd have zero issue with their bids.

Let's not confuse this, we DON'T want to discourage new people from coming in, remember we ALL were new buying selling on here.  I encourage new people coming here, I'm just weary of newbies I've never seen bid last minute on a high value item that might not be getting what market value is.  Those bids are subject even with a signed message from a wallet containing the funds.

I dont want to discourage new people in here we should embrace them.  I dont like when people act elitist, I mean it's such a small niche we are in we have no room to close doors

I 100% agree with you, as I say I was having a very warm welcome around here with 0 of problems and I encourage new members for coming and expand this world of collectible items as well

But as you say, newbie accounts or very new accounts or whiteout a lot of activity.... they should be a bit of flexible if there would be any rule when we have some special or higher value stuff to sell, or just when the OP or another member would ask for it, its all in meaning for the best and not to insult anyone, if I have this question or problem I will always follow to verify i'm good for my bid/action... 

As I also say i'm a newer guy in here as the member who's name I posted, so again nothing against him

Oh no issues it's a good point.  People put into their auctions something to the effect of if a newbie PM me first to verify, or a deposit is required.  That's a good approach to avoid kids bidding on anything ruining auctions will little to no penalty for it

[WhyFhy]

Also nothing against Wryghteous, but in the newspaper thread he's bidding and when I looked to he's account I didn't saw any trust or nothing of ratings, though he made a lot of bids....

He's clean bid on a paper a few years ago. this post probably brought him out.


About the escrow things and only 2-3% of wallets having more then 1BTC I dont know about you guys but I dont keep all my funds in one spot FWIW, If I have to pay for something I withdraw accounts to one wallet then pay, (Mining, Gambling, Freelancing) wherever has the closest amount i need . If its anything serious I start busting out QR codes from the safe. Had to do that a couple weeks ago to pay some bills

Maybe new bidders should stick to the smaller stuff. Or a new bidder can sign a wallet with funds probably the easiest solution.