What's wrong with Vod, and Hhampuz

[teeGUMES]

For the meriters, I can understand the argument for red-trust, but I tend to think that it's at the wrong level. If the meriter was meriting it because they were actively thinking, "I want to make the forum really vicious, where everyone is constantly tearing each other apart for stupid things, and this post moves in that direction," even that's not really a trust-relevant motive, just a very unhelpful motive. And probably the meriters were thinking more innocent things than that.

I would have spoken individually to each meriter if it were possible to remove their merit from the post. It is true I can not prove or disprove their intentions at the time but if anything happens to the individual at the residence that was posted I could see law enforcement somehow tying them into it, at the very least questioned.. I believe by bringing this up with the meriters I would have been able to have them retract their merit if they could.
In this case I think it better to erase that post from history to protect those four members.. possibly disallow merit in that sub section so we don't run into this in the future. I would have much preferred talking to them and coming to a better conclusion but the inability to withdraw merit is what led me to my red trust rating.

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[Vod]

I was disgusted by the reckless and vicious doxing in this case, where:
 - The evidence was very thin.
 - Even if all of the allegations were true, it'd likely result only in civil penalties, not criminal.
 - The whole thing was motivated merely by past arguments. OgNasty never caused Vod to even lose anything, as far as I know. An utterly ridiculous & disproportionate escalation.

You should check out the repeated doxing in my untrusted feedback someday.  

Thanks Theymos! 

[Lauda]

For the meriters, I can understand the argument for red-trust, but I tend to think that it's at the wrong level. If the meriter was meriting it because they were actively thinking, "I want to make the forum really vicious, where everyone is constantly tearing each other apart for stupid things, and this post moves in that direction," even that's not really a trust-relevant motive, just a very unhelpful motive. And probably the meriters were thinking more innocent things than that.

Neg.-rating someone just because they sent out 1 merit is completely backwards and proper trust abuse in my view. It's similar to political de-platforming.

[eddie13]

I was disgusted by the reckless and vicious doxing in this case, where:
 - The evidence was very thin.
 - Even if all of the allegations were true, it'd likely result only in civil penalties, not criminal.
 - The whole thing was motivated merely by past arguments. OgNasty never caused Vod to even lose anything, as far as I know. An utterly ridiculous & disproportionate escalation.
 - It's based on the premise that purely statutory crimes are directly unethical, which I don't agree with at all, though I'm willing to mostly look past this as subjective.

It's good that Vod came to his senses on this after the fact, though doing it at all certainly blemishes his reputation in my mind, and I added to my notes the fact that those users merited such a post. Meriting it is saying basically that we need more posts like this on the forum, and we do not need more posts like this on the forum.

Red-trusting Vod over this is an appropriate usage of red-trust, since his actions here are highly trust-relevant. But I tend to think that since he edited his post and seems to genuinely regret at least the public doxxing part, it'd be best to forgive.

For the meriters, I can understand the argument for red-trust, but I tend to think that it's at the wrong level. If the meriter was meriting it because they were actively thinking, "I want to make the forum really vicious, where everyone is constantly tearing each other apart for stupid things, and this post moves in that direction," even that's not really a trust-relevant motive, just a very unhelpful motive. And probably the meriters were thinking more innocent things than that.

Couldn't have said it any better myself..

So far I have not yet decided to employ the trust system in this case but it has crossed my mind as well, and I am not finished thinking about it.. I am quite off-put by this doxing and reporting to the IRS, by the perpetrator and also, but to a somewhat lesser extent, the supporters of these actions, as I have noted in my recent posts..

Neg.-rating someone just because they sent out 1 merit is completely backwards and proper trust abuse in my view. It's similar to political de-platforming.

It may not be neg-worthy on its own but it sure lets you know where they stand..

[teeGUMES]

For the meriters, I can understand the argument for red-trust, but I tend to think that it's at the wrong level. If the meriter was meriting it because they were actively thinking, "I want to make the forum really vicious, where everyone is constantly tearing each other apart for stupid things, and this post moves in that direction," even that's not really a trust-relevant motive, just a very unhelpful motive. And probably the meriters were thinking more innocent things than that.

Neg.-rating someone just because they sent out 1 merit is completely backwards and proper trust abuse in my view. It's similar to political de-platforming.

As I had said, I would have much preferred having some sort of forum tools to address this in a completely different way. My red tags have never been permanent but I felt like this was the closest tool available to get my point across/initiate change. All the right eyes are on this topic right now.. instead of trying to hang me, lets figure out how to fix this. You think I wanted to red tag some of the best members on various boards? I've slept on making this decision for a few days now.

-- probably last post of mine on this topic, like fuck I'm going to go in circles all night with Lauda

[Lauda]

Neg.-rating someone just because they sent out 1 merit is completely backwards and proper trust abuse in my view. It's similar to political de-platforming.

It may not be neg-worthy on its own but it sure lets you know where they stand..

So what about it? IMO plenty of people could anonymously DOXX and/or anonymously support the DOXX-ing of Og. I'm not allowed to merit such a thread? Objectively it took effort to create regardless of whether it is right or wrong, and that's how merit should be used. Don't use your morality and nepotism to pollute the system.

As I had said, I would have much preferred having some sort of forum tools to address this in a completely different way. My red tags have never been permanent but I felt like this was the closest tool available to get my point across/initiate change. All the right eyes are on this topic right now.. instead of trying to hang me, lets figure out how to fix this. You think I want to red tag some of the best members on various boards?

I won't tag Vod for this action and I'd certainly counter any ratings on all the meriters. The DOXX has already been removed. This action won't prevent future DOXXing. All the right eyes on this thread does what exactly?
Typos.

[Vod]

I am quite off-put by this doxing and reporting to the IRS

Two separate things.   One was needed, the other was not.

For the record, teeGUMES contacted me and explained some things.  If I am allowed to make a mistake, so is he/she.  

[eddie13]

Neg.-rating someone just because they sent out 1 merit is completely backwards and proper trust abuse in my view. It's similar to political de-platforming.

It may not be neg-worthy on its own but it sure lets you know where they stand..

So what about it? IMO plenty of people could anonymously DOXX and/or anonymously support the DOXX-ing of Og. I'm not allowed to merit such a thread? Objectively it took effort to create regardless of whether it is right or wrong, and that's how merit should be used. Don't use your morality and nepotism to pollute the system.

Attempting to use the IRS as a weapon, via a which hunt, against someone and doxing are very distasteful to me. One minute merit is for constructive posts, the next it is for "took effort", the next it is a like button, the next it is an agree button, and then it's for something interesting, whatever.. We all know it is for good posts that you support most of the time no matter what you want to call it and supporting bad actions is not good in my view, or cryptohunter would have a million merits for all that effort, so I have also taken note of and mentioned supporters, like Theymos has..

As I had said, I would have much preferred having some sort of forum tools to address this in a completely different way. My red tags have never been permanent but I felt like this was the closest tool available to get my point across/initiate change. All the right eyes are on this topic right now.. instead of trying to hang me, lets figure out how to fix this. You think I want to red tag some of the best members on various boards?

I won't tag Vod for this action and I'd certainly counter any ratings on all the meriters. All the right eyes on this thread does what exactly?

The right eyes on this situation help to ensure justice and morality.
You won't tag vod for this because you do the same thing, doxing a person to others, threatening to report them to the IRS, harassing their family, in a which hunt, obviously..

[Lauda]

You won't tag vod for this because you do the same thing, doxing a person to others, threatening to report them to the IRS, harassing their family, in a which hunt, obviously..

Quoted and archived your lying. No wonder you support political games; you're dishonest yourself. I've tackled this stupidity on the next level, and have given them positive ratings and will counter any political leftist censoring by eddie et. al. There's no need to further discuss with ad hominem baboons like yourself.

[teeGUMES]

For the record, teeGUMES contacted me and explained some things.  If I am allowed to make a mistake, so is he/she.  

After having a grown up conversation with Vod, we both understand eachother's side and have had the edited dox post in Investigations deleted. I have removed my red ratings from the merit posters. If a different tool were available to achieve this same effect I would have used it, it was never my intention to tarnish the great work that the four individuals do every day on this forum. If no tool ever appears I will act no differently in the future, your exclusions may remain and you will not be excluded in retaliation.

[btcsmlcmnr]

Why is this in Meta and why do you feel the need to stir this drama further? PM teeGUMES if you're curious.

Now, the question is clearer. If I did not start the topic, we would have not seen the following post of theymos, that help us have better overview on admin's stance on Trust system, roles of DT members, and the way Trust / feedbacks works. It's only better for the forum, I believe. At the start, I believe that something inappropriately used with such feedbacks, that's all.

I was disgusted by the reckless and vicious doxing in this case, where:
 - The evidence was very thin.
 - Even if all of the allegations were true, it'd likely result only in civil penalties, not criminal.
 - The whole thing was motivated merely by past arguments. OgNasty never caused Vod to even lose anything, as far as I know. An utterly ridiculous & disproportionate escalation.
 - It's based on the premise that purely statutory crimes are directly unethical, which I don't agree with at all, though I'm willing to mostly look past this as subjective.

It's good that Vod came to his senses on this after the fact, though doing it at all certainly blemishes his reputation in my mind, and I added to my notes the fact that those users merited such a post. Meriting it is saying basically that we need more posts like this on the forum, and we do not need more posts like this on the forum.

Red-trusting Vod over this is an appropriate usage of red-trust, since his actions here are highly trust-relevant. But I tend to think that since he edited his post and seems to genuinely regret at least the public doxxing part, it'd be best to forgive.

For the meriters, I can understand the argument for red-trust, but I tend to think that it's at the wrong level. If the meriter was meriting it because they were actively thinking, "I want to make the forum really vicious, where everyone is constantly tearing each other apart for stupid things, and this post moves in that direction," even that's not really a trust-relevant motive, just a very unhelpful motive. And probably the meriters were thinking more innocent things than that.

[suchmoon]

Why is this in Meta and why do you feel the need to stir this drama further? PM teeGUMES if you're curious.

Now, the question is clearer. If I did not start the topic, we would have not seen the following post of theymos, that help us have better overview on admin's stance on Trust system, roles of DT members, and the way Trust / feedbacks works. It's only better for the forum, I believe. At the start, I believe that something inappropriately used with such feedbacks, that's all.

Fair enough, the thread did eventually serve a purpose. Thanks for pointing out this debacle.

[Quickseller]

I saw a thread in which OgN was apparently doxed but as of when I saw it, the dox was removed. The thread in question appears to now have been removed. Is this about the same thread?

It appears Vod claims OgN doesn’t pay appropriate taxes based upon the fact that he calls various payments to him “donations” which is obviously hogwash. The “donation” description is a marketing tool (a counterproductive one IMO, but how OgN markets his services is up to OgN). The “donation” description in relation to nastyfans is probably more accurate, however this is a very complex issue that would likely be the subject of litigation if the US government were to ever get involved (I don’t think they will based on the amounts involved, and based on the fact set).

As I mentioned previously in another thread, Vod has a history of using doxes as a weapon against people he doesn’t like. He also doesn’t do any real research to confirm the accuracy of the doxes he receives and as such he likely posts doxes of random people who have never interacted with Vod in the past.

As an example, Vod posted what he thought was my dox years ago in an effort to try to get me to leave the forum because I was critical of him. He initially posted what he believed to be my first name in an effort to intimidate me, which I didn’t pick up on because it was wrong. After he posted what he believed to be my full dox, including what he believed to be my address, multiple reputable people who have felt with me posted his information was incorrect (and no one publicly said his information was correct). After being told he had bad information, he contacted who he believed to be my employer in an effort to get me fired, except it was also wrong. His source was an account with multiple recent trust ratings indicating the account was recently sold. In other words, Vod received his information from an anonymous source, was refuted by multiple reputable people, did zero due diligence, and proceeded to try to get the person fired on the small chance it was me, al because I was critical of Vod.


If Vod received merit on a post in which OgN was doxed, this is an example of a flaw in the merit system.

[Lauda]

I saw a thread in which OgN was apparently doxed but as of when I saw it, the dox was removed. The thread in question appears to now have been removed. Is this about the same thread?

Yes.

If Vod received merit on a post in which OgN was doxed, this is an example of a flaw in the merit system.

No, unless you want to censor what opinions, statements or other people's actions are allowed to get merit.

[Quickseller]

You won't tag vod for this because you do the same thing, doxing a person to others, threatening to report them to the IRS, harassing their family, in a which hunt, obviously..

Quoted and archived your lying. No wonder you support political games; you're dishonest yourself. I've tackled this stupidity on the next level, and have given them positive ratings and will counter any political leftist censoring by eddie et. al. There's no need to further discuss with ad hominem baboons like yourself.

(appropriate use of a double post).

You quite literally did exactly this to zeroaxl, having even less evidence he was not paying taxes.

[Lauda]

You won't tag vod for this because you do the same thing, doxing a person to others, threatening to report them to the IRS, harassing their family, in a which hunt, obviously..

Quoted and archived your lying. No wonder you support political games; you're dishonest yourself. I've tackled this stupidity on the next level, and have given them positive ratings and will counter any political leftist censoring by eddie et. al. There's no need to further discuss with ad hominem baboons like yourself.

(appropriate use of a double post).

You quite literally did exactly this to zeroaxl, having even less evidence he was not paying taxes.

I did not do any such thing; do not post lies about events just because they happened a long time ago. His post deserves red trust but these policies nowadays.. Maybe my reputation got scammed? :shrug:

[suchmoon]

If Vod received merit on a post in which OgN was doxed, this is an example of a flaw in the merit system.

It's an example of someone meriting a post you don't like. You'll get over it.

[Vod]

In other words, Vod received his information from an anonymous source, was refuted by multiple reputable people, did zero due diligence, and proceeded to try to get the person fired on the small chance it was me, al because I was critical of Vod.

You have an active imagination... you sure about that chain of events, dog?

And LiveCoin is sponsoring that post?  :/

[TECSHARE]

I am loving how everyone's priorities are in order here. Forget the threats to the lives and freedoms of forum members, some one left a bad trust rating! This place is a fucking joke, especially all of you spineless twats sitting atop the trust list who condone this type of behavior by doing nothing about it. Enjoy the total disintegration of the community, you earned it.

For the meriters, I can understand the argument for red-trust, but I tend to think that it's at the wrong level. If the meriter was meriting it because they were actively thinking, "I want to make the forum really vicious, where everyone is constantly tearing each other apart for stupid things, and this post moves in that direction," even that's not really a trust-relevant motive, just a very unhelpful motive. And probably the meriters were thinking more innocent things than that.

Neg.-rating someone just because they sent out 1 merit is completely backwards and proper trust abuse in my view. It's similar to political de-platforming.

This is fucking hilarious as you literally attempt to get your political opponents locked up you decry people leaving little red ratings as political de-platforming. Such virtue!

I was disgusted by the reckless and vicious doxing in this case, where:
 - The evidence was very thin.
 - Even if all of the allegations were true, it'd likely result only in civil penalties, not criminal.
 - The whole thing was motivated merely by past arguments. OgNasty never caused Vod to even lose anything, as far as I know. An utterly ridiculous & disproportionate escalation.
 - It's based on the premise that purely statutory crimes are directly unethical, which I don't agree with at all, though I'm willing to mostly look past this as subjective.

It's good that Vod came to his senses on this after the fact, though doing it at all certainly blemishes his reputation in my mind, and I added to my notes the fact that those users merited such a post. Meriting it is saying basically that we need more posts like this on the forum, and we do not need more posts like this on the forum.

Red-trusting Vod over this is an appropriate usage of red-trust, since his actions here are highly trust-relevant. But I tend to think that since he edited his post and seems to genuinely regret at least the public doxxing part, it'd be best to forgive.

For the meriters, I can understand the argument for red-trust, but I tend to think that it's at the wrong level. If the meriter was meriting it because they were actively thinking, "I want to make the forum really vicious, where everyone is constantly tearing each other apart for stupid things, and this post moves in that direction," even that's not really a trust-relevant motive, just a very unhelpful motive. And probably the meriters were thinking more innocent things than that.

How many times are we going to go thru this with this little mentally ill wannabe Stazi agent? Frankly I am ashamed at you most of all Theymos. You talk about condemnation but every time he or people like him do shit like this they get a pass from you and they do it again and again continually escalating because that's what mentally ill control freaks like Vod do. By giving him a pass on this for what, the 17th time you have officially made this forum a total fucking joke. Congratulations on jumping the shark and making a complete mockery of every standard you pretend to uphold. HEIL THEYMOS!

[Quickseller]

In other words, Vod received his information from an anonymous source, was refuted by multiple reputable people, did zero due diligence, and proceeded to try to get the person fired on the small chance it was me, al because I was critical of Vod.

You have an active imagination... you sure about that chain of events, dog?

That is exactly what happened. No imagination is required because there is evidence to back it all up.