What's wrong with Vod, and Hhampuz

[Vod]

That is exactly what happened. No imagination is required because there is evidence to back it all up.

If you post so.  People trust you. 

[1714180069]

1714180069

[FFrankie]

Didn't someone else pubilcy doxx OG a while back and Like with photos and everything if I remember right. And nothing happened to them

There is a rule somewhere, that theymos dox can't be posted,, should that rule be expanded to include all bitcointalk staff members, and those receiving payment from the fourm. IE, fourm treasurers and cryptios

[Lauda]

Didn't someone else pubilcy doxx OG a while back and Like with photos and everything if I remember right. And nothing happened to them

Pictures? Yes, doxx? Don't think so.

There is a rule somewhere, that theymos dox can't be posted,, should that rule be expanded to include all bitcointalk staff members, and those receiving payment from the fourm. IE, fourm treasurers and cryptios

No it should not otherwise one will end up with their DOXX everywhere off-forum where it can't be removed. Don't anger the beasts.

[bill gator]

I'm not allowed to merit such a thread? Objectively it took effort to create regardless of whether it is right or wrong, and that's how merit should be used. Don't use your morality ... to pollute the system.

That sounds like the single most flimsy criteria for usage of the merit-system that I can think of. Do not use your morality, or value-judgement to decide which posts you would like to see more of; simply merit posts that objectively "took effort". That has got to be a joke that had terrible delivery. If we were to use that criteria, then every try-hard newbie that spends an hour on their scheme to earn merit with a worthless post would be successful.

It would take effort to break into the address that was provided, but does that mean the action should be condoned? Maybe we should merit it, if they give us a play-by-play in a thread! So long as it took some effort.

The criteria has always been more than "effort".

On top of all of that, Nepotism is allowing a member to get away with something because of who they are. I can't imagine someone else walking away unscathed after DOXing and endangering the lives of multiple people; let alone be told that receiving merit for doing so is appropriate.

It's an example of someone meriting a post you don't like. You'll get over it.

It's more an example of someone encouraging another user to endanger the lives of potentially innocent bystanders.

Where I am from, if you scream to the public "That guy has a lot of money! This is where he sleeps!" guess who ends up naked and robbed in a burning building? It doesn't matter if he actually has money, or if that's even where he sleeps. It's not cute and it is not a game; you can get people hurt like this.

[The-One-Above-All]

Neg.-rating someone just because they sent out 1 merit is completely backwards and proper trust abuse in my view. It's similar to political de-platforming.

It may not be neg-worthy on its own but it sure lets you know where they stand..

So what about it? IMO plenty of people could anonymously DOXX and/or anonymously support the DOXX-ing of Og. I'm not allowed to merit such a thread? Objectively it took effort to create regardless of whether it is right or wrong, and that's how merit should be used. Don't use your morality and nepotism to pollute the system.

As I had said, I would have much preferred having some sort of forum tools to address this in a completely different way. My red tags have never been permanent but I felt like this was the closest tool available to get my point across/initiate change. All the right eyes are on this topic right now.. instead of trying to hang me, lets figure out how to fix this. You think I want to red tag some of the best members on various boards?

I won't tag Vod for this action and I'd certainly counter any ratings on all the meriters. The DOXX has already been removed. This action won't prevent future DOXXing. All the right eyes on this thread does what exactly?
Typos.

teeGUMES was just made an example of by those that really control DT. Theymos blessing will do nothing to save him now or in the future. He is marked. His back peddling now will not help him they will remember this.

This repeated "fuck off" to theymos from Lauda is quite strange. Only the other day we asked Lauda why he was saying he will ignore theymos's instructions to use red trust for scammers and those present a case for STRONGLY attempting to scam.

He said theymos is now the student and he is the master?

How does Lauda get to just repeatedly just give theymos the finger and get favor still? GRAY my ass. The scammers here can THANK lauda for pushing the threshold for being RED to a level most scammers would feel guilty of reaching lol

and yet she calls herself THE RED TRUST QUEEN - ffs this forum is a laughing stock to those that KNOW the REAL history of this individual. Having one of the most notorious liars, scammers, extortionists , shady escrows giving out red because you present observable instances in its past?  what a hilarious joke. A scam tag for warning about scammers. The inverse trust system.

This tight group of colluding scum (each with clear instances of observable financially related shady behaviors) and their tight knit supporters need blacklisting.

What do they have on Theymos that is preventing him blacklisting these dirt bags?

Just blacklist them all or delete DT Theymos. If these people are willing to give you the middle finger over and over in public like this then you need to take away their power before they destroy the entire forum.

They are clearly employing double standards here. One of their main arguments for red is that you "may" reveal some traders address. They red trust people for selling accounts but not their pals who try to sell theirs, or they red trust people for presenting observable instances from their post histories they want remain hidden.

This idiot VOD has been bullying OG with his group of colluding scumbag pals for weeks now. He gave us RED TRUST because we deleted a post of his that for the 3rd time accused OG nasty of being a liar when we said he needs to present evidence to continue making such claims. [size=12pt]So if you present observable instances of their wrong doing you get red trust. If you ask them to present evidence and not just make false claims you get red trust?? wtf is this system?  all the time you have idiots like foxpup showering their double standards and abuse with merits?? Others make a post that is truthful and honest and you come in and REMOVE their merits??[/size]
We asked if hhampuz openly supports these scammers and liars and got red trust for investigating it and presenting observable instances of their shady behaviors and these same bunch came running with red tags claiming defamation and then NOT EVEN DISPUTING the observable instances because they simply can not.

Now any DT1 that dares to red trust them is removed by the "gang" of untrustworthy colluding scum you allowed to infiltrate DT1.

Theymos do something about these people as we have been asking you for an age. You created some strange systems of control and just assume these kinds of people will do what you tell them and act for the best for the forum not themselves?? please be sensible.

How hard can it be??  Just tell ALL DT

1. If you red trust someone that you can not present STRONG case is a scammer = blacklist
2. If you are presented with a STRONG case someone is a scammer you must red trust them or = blacklist
3. Any DT that is found to have any financially motivated shady behavior (ever) = blacklisted.


Pushing OG to remove laudas legitimate scam tags left him MORE vulnerable. Those that previously would have certainly supported him against this kind of public bullying have not been as vocal in his support since he seems to have made a deal with the devil.

We are VERY encouraged with your opinions regarding this OG bullying and doxxing but still you are NOT going far enough. Kick these dogs off DT and blacklist them. You don't need to be a genius to see who is colluding with lauda, tman, owlcatz, hhampuz, ieoeio, vod, foxpup (this merit abusing idiot) (suchmoon to a lesser degree but still is bullying OG) , and others all ass kissing them and trying to get into DT and merit source and HugeBlackWoman. They all rally round each other as soon as one is called out.

You are shaming this board letting observable scammers and liars infest DT and use their powers (you gave them) to bully and defame honest members.

This is a trust system right?  whatever they have on you, just call their bluff. Fuck them, the board will support you if you clearly do what is right.

These people are bullies and untrustworthy scum? how did they get on DT in the first place?

If anyone did any real research on VOD you would find some quite disturbing and troubling accounts. To let him bully someone like OG who has been keeping the forums btc safe for a long time is outrageous.

[Foxpup]

all the time you have idiots like foxpup showering their double standards and abuse with merits??

I guess I can't really deny having double standards when I merited both Vod's post and teeGUMES's post complaining about it. I stand by my merits, and am prepared to accept the judgement of the community in this matter (which is why I've felt no need to say anything about it until you appeared spouting your usual nonsense accusations).

[Hhampuz]

I guess I can't really deny having double standards when I merited both Vod's post and teeGUMES's post complaining about it. I stand by my merits, and am prepared to accept the judgement of the community in this matter (which is why I've felt no need to say anything about it until you appeared spouting your usual nonsense accusations).

I respect you Foxpup!

[Lauda]

...endangering the lives of multiple people; let alone be told that receiving merit for doing so is appropriate.

Don't spew exaggarated bullshit. It takes about 25 seconds for decent tech-savy person to find OgNasty and his plot. The DOXX was unecessarary, but nobody has been endangered as the information is out there and easy to find. The rest of your emotional response is uninteresting.

He said theymos is now the student and he is the master?

This is correct, I'm sure thermos can confirm.

[suchmoon]

It's more an example of someone encouraging another user to endanger the lives of potentially innocent bystanders.

Where I am from, if you scream to the public "That guy has a lot of money! This is where he sleeps!" guess who ends up naked and robbed in a burning building? It doesn't matter if he actually has money, or if that's even where he sleeps. It's not cute and it is not a game; you can get people hurt like this.

Make sure to apply the same high standards when Og's lapdog doxes random people for spurious reasons, even outside of Investigations.

Merit is not an encouragement or anything of the sort. It's an opinion at most, and not necessarily an opinion agreeing with the post being merited. Let's calm down with the exaggerations.

[bernardos]

Well Hhampuz rating is back to normal now. Too bad that things had to escalate this way. Seems that all this could have been avoided had all the tagged parties talked to each other before. Decisions made when someone is angry and not thinking with a clear mind can create a lot of issues.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Of course I don't agree with meriting any post in that section for doxing but i do not feel its tagworthy.

It's not tag-worthy, and I don't think Theymos wants negative trust being handed out for differing opinions, and certainly not for merits you don't think should have been given based on the opinion in the post that was merited.  That's bullshit.

Vod and Hhampuz are both well-respected members of bitcointalk and don't deserve a tag for this drama--especially not Hhampuz, who isn't even directly involved with it anyway.  These new DT members really need to learn feedback etiquette, and learn it quickly if they expect to stay on DT for long.

Well Hhampuz rating is back to normal now. Too bad that things had to escalate this way.

Good.  And yeah, there was no reason for this side drama to happen at all.

I can't imagine someone else walking away unscathed after DOXing and endangering the lives of multiple people

I get where you're coming from, but I don't think anybody's life was endangered because of this.  I don't know what the crime statistics are for assaults/murders/robberies/whatever post-internet doxxing, but I'm guessing those things happen very rarely.  Some of the wealthiest people in the world have at least their addresses public, so if anyone wanted to rob or kill them, they'd be easy enough to find--but it doesn't happen a lot.  I don't think OgNasty's dox being made public is going to provoke anyone to do anything stupid (I assume that's what we're talking about here). 

[teeGUMES]

Every single DT1 member sat idly by while someone was publicly doxxed over a ridiculous arguement that escalated out of control. More action happened when hhampuz's trust rating turned into orange ???s. I think it's time you get your priorities in order. You guys are a laughing stock.

[Lauda]

Every single DT1 member sat idly by while someone was publicly doxxed over a ridiculous arguement that escalated out of control. More action happened when hhampuz's trust rating turned into orange ???s. I think it's time you get your priorities in order. You guys are a laughing stock.

The people who are whining about users getting endangered are the very same people that kept quiet when Hhampuz was fully doxxed. Oh the hypocrisy. What goes around comes around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[teeGUMES]

Every single DT1 member sat idly by while someone was publicly doxxed over a ridiculous arguement that escalated out of control. More action happened when hhampuz's trust rating turned into orange ???s. I think it's time you get your priorities in order. You guys are a laughing stock.

The people who are whining about users getting endangered are the very same people that kept quiet when Hhampuz was fully doxxed. Oh the hypocrisy. What goes around comes around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hooo boy look at how bad that looks. Hhampuz went through a similar full doxx but thinks meritting someone elses doxx is the correct order of action.
Everyone here is so scared to speak out with an unpopular opinion because you few spin it to try and make them look badly or unfit for DT.
It's not working this time. You guys are finally showing your true intentions. Form an echo chamber, remain in power.

[Lauda]

Every single DT1 member sat idly by while someone was publicly doxxed over a ridiculous arguement that escalated out of control. More action happened when hhampuz's trust rating turned into orange ???s. I think it's time you get your priorities in order. You guys are a laughing stock.

The people who are whining about users getting endangered are the very same people that kept quiet when Hhampuz was fully doxxed. Oh the hypocrisy. What goes around comes around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hooo boy look at how bad that looks. Hhampuz went through a similar full doxx but thinks meritting someone elses doxx is the correct order of action.

Point?

Everyone here is so scared to speak out with an unpopular opinion because you few spin it to try and make them look badly or unfit for DT.
It's not working this time. You guys are finally showing your true intentions. Form an echo chamber, remain in power.

There is no "you guys", if you believe otherwise you are delusional. Most people that did speak out now are just disgusting hypocrites. I don't see your negative on the person who doxxed him, surprise surprise.
Hypocrite.

[bill gator]

The DOXX was unecessarary, but nobody has been endangered as the information is out there and easy to find.

The mental gymnastics that are performed on this forum daily are impressive. What makes the Dox unacceptable and unnecessary is because it endangers the people involved.
So then the difficulty of acquiring the information is our standard? That sounds as half-baked as meriting solely based on effort.

The people who are whining about users getting endangered are the very same people that kept quiet when Hhampuz was fully doxxed.

More of this beat-around-the-bush game-play. I wasn't around when the situation with Hhampuz occurred. If you think that absence is equivalent to hypocrisy or support, then we've got nothing to talk about. Assuming you're talking about me, I'd love for you to back up your claims that I am acting hypocritically. I wouldn't support Hhampuz being DOX'd either.

I like the use of qualifiers, "fully doxxed", as opposed to what?
When you share private information about somebody and proclaim that they are hoarding valuables you are endangering them.

I'm not allowed to merit such a thread? Objectively it took effort to create regardless of whether it is right or wrong, and that's how merit should be used.

It takes about 25 seconds ... to find OgNasty and his plot. ... the information is out there and easy to find.

Side-Note: It's funny to me that one moment you're saying it's okay to merit posts based on effort, and then in the next breathe you are talking about how it's acceptable to post the information because it required nearly no effort. Doubly funny when you're talking about the same post for both.

I don't know what the crime statistics are for assaults/murders/robberies/whatever post-internet doxxing

I'd be willing to bet that you are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime after your dox, and financial information has been posted publicly when comparing it to before the information was released. Which is my point, there is an increase in danger for no justifiable reason.

I'm guessing those things happen very rarely.  

Things like that happen every single day. When a burglar wants to rob your house, they go through a vetting process and posting information like this makes their job entirely too easy.

I'm not trying to be a drama-queen, but for some reason you're all acting like privacy and security are not the primary protectors of your well-being. Yeah, some of the richest people in the world have their addresses public, but I'd be willing to bet the attempts on their life, robbery attempts and the cost of general security have risen astronomically since their address became public.

Anecdotally, this happened to my grandfather after someone elsewhere on the internet had intentions of doing something similar to me (DOX). The house was broken into, robbed, smashed around, causing massive damages. Thankfully they were on vacation, otherwise what would have happened?

We can't just brush this off as an exaggeration, I'm not making an emotional appeal when I say there are millions of people who would kill just to put their foot in your doorway. Why play with fire and then tell me I'm exaggerating by warning about a house-fire?

Make sure to apply the same high standards when Og's lapdog doxes random people for spurious reasons, even outside of Investigations.

I don't even know what you're talking about, we're not all as involved, but I happily would apply the same standards to anybody DOXing anyone for any purpose other than it is necessary for the forwarding of a proper investigation.

Merit is not an encouragement or anything of the sort. It's an opinion at most, and not necessarily an opinion agreeing with the post being merited. Let's calm down with the exaggerations.

Merit is not an opinion. You can give merit out based on your opinion, but it is not in itself an opinion. Merit is a +1 that enables users to rank-up, which would mean it is an incentive for whatever they have posted to earn that merit. I guess when you give a dog a treat, you're not necessarily agreeing with their opinion, but you are encouraging them to do whatever they think they did to earn that treat. The dog wants their next snack, like a newbie wants their rank-up.

Meriting definitely doesn't mean that you condemn the post. The post should have been universally condemned, and any defense for this kind of behavior is the problem right now.

[Rmcdermott927]

It's good that Vod came to his senses on this after the fact, though doing it at all certainly blemishes his reputation in my mind, and I added to my notes the fact that those users merited such a post. Meriting it is saying basically that we need more posts like this on the forum, and we do not need more posts like this on the forum.

Red-trusting Vod over this is an appropriate usage of red-trust, since his actions here are highly trust-relevant. But I tend to think that since he edited his post and seems to genuinely regret at least the public doxxing part, it'd be best to forgive.

It's irrelevant that Vod came to his senses after the fact.    We know thousands of people saw that post and likely dozens of people copied or saved that information.   Deleting his post did not undo what was done.  He literally risked lives by posting an address and basically said "hey, there's 500 BTC at this location".   It's an insanely dangerous precedent to set.  What happens when an innocent person or even a child is hurt due to a home invasion because of a post like this?  Nearly 3.5M USD is a lot of incentive for a bad person to attempt something terrible.

There was no reason for it, as you already stated.  Ognasty isn't running for president as far as I know so his taxes should be no one's business but OG and the IRS.   The feigned outrage is comical.   No one cares about OG's taxes, they just want to hurt ognasty.

[suchmoon]

Make sure to apply the same high standards when Og's lapdog doxes random people for spurious reasons, even outside of Investigations.

I don't even know what you're talking about, we're not all as involved, but I happily would apply the same standards to anybody DOXing anyone for any purpose other than it is necessary for the forwarding of a proper investigation.

Quicksy doxing owlcatz as an example. Every piece of shit scammer doxing Vod for any reason or no reason at all. Not a peep from any of you outraged citizens. Because we all think that Vod doesn't keep 500 BTC under his mattress, is that what it is?

Merit is not an encouragement or anything of the sort. It's an opinion at most, and not necessarily an opinion agreeing with the post being merited. Let's calm down with the exaggerations.

Merit is not an opinion. You can give merit out based on your opinion, but it is not in itself an opinion. Merit is a +1 that enables users to rank-up, which would mean it is an incentive for whatever they have posted to earn that merit. I guess when you give a dog a treat, you're not necessarily agreeing with their opinion, but you are encouraging them to do whatever they think they did to earn that treat. The dog wants their next snack, like a newbie wants their rank-up.

Meriting definitely doesn't mean that you condemn the post. The post should have been universally condemned, and any defense for this kind of behavior is the problem right now.

Ok, now we're splitting hairs - if I say "I think this is a good post" - is that my opinion or my words based on my opinion? Makes no difference to me. The rank-up thing is a nice bonus but doesn't have to enter the decision process of the merit sender. Agreeing or disagreeing with the recipient is irrelevant.

There is a bit more to the scale than just "CONDEMN" and "ENCOURAGE". I disagree with the dox. I wouldn't have merited that post. But I don't think those who merited that post deserve red trust and I'm disappointed in teeGUMES' (and yours) continuing mental gymnastics trying to blow this out of proportion. I refuse to start sweating for the 15k merits I sent so that someone somewhere could find one of them objectionable and decide to red trust me for that.

[teeGUMES]

Make sure to apply the same high standards when Og's lapdog doxes random people for spurious reasons, even outside of Investigations.

I don't even know what you're talking about, we're not all as involved, but I happily would apply the same standards to anybody DOXing anyone for any purpose other than it is necessary for the forwarding of a proper investigation.

Quicksy doxing owlcatz as an example. Every piece of shit scammer doxing Vod for any reason or no reason at all. Not a peep from any of you outraged citizens. Because we all think that Vod doesn't keep 500 BTC under his mattress, is that what it is?

Merit is not an encouragement or anything of the sort. It's an opinion at most, and not necessarily an opinion agreeing with the post being merited. Let's calm down with the exaggerations.

Merit is not an opinion. You can give merit out based on your opinion, but it is not in itself an opinion. Merit is a +1 that enables users to rank-up, which would mean it is an incentive for whatever they have posted to earn that merit. I guess when you give a dog a treat, you're not necessarily agreeing with their opinion, but you are encouraging them to do whatever they think they did to earn that treat. The dog wants their next snack, like a newbie wants their rank-up.

Meriting definitely doesn't mean that you condemn the post. The post should have been universally condemned, and any defense for this kind of behavior is the problem right now.

Ok, now we're splitting hairs - if I say "I think this is a good post" - is that my opinion or my words based on my opinion? Makes no difference to me. The rank-up thing is a nice bonus but doesn't have to enter the decision process of the merit sender. Agreeing or disagreeing with the recipient is irrelevant.

There is a bit more to the scale than just "CONDEMN" and "ENCOURAGE". I disagree with the dox. I wouldn't have merited that post. But I don't think those who merited that post deserve red trust and I'm disappointed in teeGUMES' (and yours) continuing mental gymnastics trying to blow this out of proportion. I refuse to start sweating for the 15k merits I sent so that someone somewhere could find one of them objectionable and decide to red trust me for that.

The question here now becomes what have the long term DT1 members been doing about this rampant doxxing? Has there not been a large enough stance taken on it to prevent future doxxing? Obviously not with all these examples you and Lauda are bringing up.

My record is 1-0 currently. I was only DT1 for a week, but I seen something wrong and I decided to do something about it. In the end I achieved what I set out to do and the post was deleted. If I'm never DT again I wouldn't care, in my very short time I have done more to set a precedent against doxxing than any of you have in the long time you've held your position. It's just unfortunate some highly valued members decided merit for doxx was an okay thing to do.

[bill gator]

Quicksy doxing owlcatz as an example.  Not a peep from any of you outraged citizens. Because we all think that Vod doesn't keep 500 BTC under his mattress, is that what it is?

I generally don't read through reputation threads, which I've made clear several times. I can't talk about something I have never even heard of. I am against every instance of DOXing that I have ever come across. I don't think it matters if anyone actually has 500 BTC under their mattress or not, if you say they have it someone will believe you and maybe someone that believes you is willing to cross that threshold into violence based on the potential payout or simply because they have a vendetta.

Ok, now we're splitting hairs - if I say "I think this is a good post" - is that my opinion or my words based on my opinion? Makes no difference to me. The rank-up thing is a nice bonus but doesn't have to enter the decision process of the merit sender. Agreeing or disagreeing with the recipient is irrelevant.

That would be you using your words to express your opinion. Similar to how you use merit, except you are limited in your expression if you choose to do so with merit, because it only goes one way (up/positive). "The rank up-thing" was the entire purpose of implementing the merit system. It literally effects nothing other than user-rank, so if you are using merit without that in mind then you are operating with an abstract concept of the merit system that almost nobody else would share.

You can't say "I think this is a bad post" with merit. Words are more variable than merit and comparing them is a painful exercise.

We're not splitting hairs.. That seems to be what you're doing, while you pretend like there can be a connotation to merit that is anything but positive. Sending a merit to another user is interacting with their post in a positive manner. You're trying to pretend like merit is neutral, but that's not even close to the case. Words can be used to express an opinion that is negative, positive, neutral or any other descriptor you can fit in there. Receiving merit cannot be seen as a negative and you cannot convince me that sending merit is used negatively.

I'm disappointed in ... you ... continuing mental gymnastics trying to blow this out of proportion.

The only claim that I've even made is: pointing at a house and saying "there's a lot of money in there" is endangering the people in that house. What have I blown out of proportion?
I haven't encouraged those that merited the DOX to be given negative reputation, in fact I disagree with that approach personally, although I do think it would be fair for Vod to receive negative reputation based on being the Doxer. I'm confused how that negative reputation would be seen as "trust abuse", "merit censorship" or whatever else it is being claimed to be.