Plagiarism should remain a zero-tolerance bannable offense

[eternalgloom]

I've seen a bunch of topics where people argue that there should be some leeway given to long-time members who've plagiarized and have been banned because of that.

Examples:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5145434.0 (Improving the current ban situation)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5144084.0 (Any managers lost good posters due recent mass ban?)

Instead of replying to those topics and arguing why I personally don't agree with the soft-handed approach they're suggesting, I thought it was a better idea to start a dedicated topic about it.


Plagiarism is not a simple mistake in most cases, it's a conscious decision that people make in order to increase their post count and make money off of that.
Frankly, anyone who engages in copying other people's work without giving proper credit for it, should get banned immediately without any exceptions.

We've all seen the excuses in the recent mass ban appeals, first they claim to have no idea why they were banned and then they claim it's 'such a hard punishment' for a 'simple' mistake.

I say bullshit to that, everybody should know that you don't just copy someone else's exact words and pass it off as your own.
There's not a single good reason why long-time members who've plagiarized in the past should be given a second chance. (in my opinion at least)

Mind you, I've made some stupid posts myself when I was still a newbie, but it never crossed my mind to just copy/paste stuff to increase my post count.
Most people don't plagiarize, because they're just decent persons, so I'd highly recommend not giving any free-passes to those who do plagiarize.

Heck, I'm actually also against the signature bans (instead of banning them) that Bitcointalk gives to high-profile members who've plagiarized, but offer value to the forum.


I do have to add that some people might actually 'plagiarize' by accident and those cases should be treated differently.
By that I mean, someone adding a quote from a website to their post, but forgetting to add the source.

Something like that is pretty easy to spot, if they've also added enough unique content to their post and placed the quote in actual bbcode quotes.

[RapTarX]

Some of the banned users are high ranked and they have a good posting habit, (ex. bill gator, cellard). Nevertheless, if their copy posts were for any kind of financial motivation/ gaining incentives, I would say they deserve a permanent ban. On the other hand, if they intended to help other (no monetary gaining affiliated), they must not be banned, this would be the exception.
I am not sure how to be certain about monetary affiliation of their posts. I guess there's way but it will be time consumable as well. Therefore, the current punishment of a certain time of signature ban is perfect, if they intend to help other, they will continue. If they are here for monetary gain, they will go away.

[Lauda]

Plagiarism is not a simple mistake in most cases, it's a conscious decision that people make in order to increase their post count and make money off of that.
Frankly, anyone who engages in copying other people's work without giving proper credit for it, should get banned immediately without any exceptions.

This is utter bullshit. I almost made this mistake today, and the only thing that reminded me to review my post was all this plagiarism paranoia that has been going on the past few days. I did not even know where the thing that I posted was from, i.e. had absolutely no idea it was plagiarism without a source until I looked it up.

Most people don't plagiarize, because they're just decent persons, so I'd highly recommend not giving any free-passes to those who do plagiarize.

It's a soap-opera-like discussion forum, I'm not submitting a dissertation for crying out loud. How do I de-merit this thread to oblivion?

[erikalui]

Plagiarism is not a simple mistake in most cases, it's a conscious decision that people make in order to increase their post count and make money off of that.
Frankly, anyone who engages in copying other people's work without giving proper credit for it, should get banned immediately without any exceptions.

I don't agree that all did it intentionally and it depends on when and why did the user post the content. It's not like these members kept doing it and are getting excused for this. Everyone has got either a temp-ban or sig-ban and this was because they did it years ago and not recently. Some did it once 4 years back so the perm-ban wouldn't be fair as they have contributed to the forum. Although it's wrong, they deserve a temp-ban in such cases.

We've all seen the excuses in the recent mass ban appeals, first they claim to have no idea why they were banned and then they claim it's 'such a hard punishment' for a 'simple' mistake.


I say bullshit to that, everybody should know that you don't just copy someone else's exact words and pass it off as your own.
There's not a single good reason why long-time members who've plagiarized in the past should be given a second chance. (in my opinion at least)

The members claiming it are taking the forum for granted. Nobody can be unaware of a simple fact that you can't copy-paste other people's posts.

I do have to add that some people might actually 'plagiarize' by accident and those cases should be treated differently.
By that I mean, someone adding a quote from a website to their post, but forgetting to add the source.

Something like that is pretty easy to spot, if they've also added enough unique content to their post and placed the quote in actual bbcode quotes.

The moderator hence is checking all posts to see if the user did it by mistake on intentionally did it and if he is a repeat offender. Some members did it without realizing it is plagiarism and since they have been here for years and done it like 3-4 years back, the 60 days ban is fine. I've also done mistakes of posting emails without adding the source link and just using quotes. Theymos made it clear that this is not considered plagiarism.

Mind you, I've made some stupid posts myself when I was still a newbie, but it never crossed my mind to just copy/paste stuff to increase my post count.
Most people don't plagiarize, because they're just decent persons, so I'd highly recommend not giving any free-passes to those who do plagiarize.

Heck, I'm actually also against the signature bans (instead of banning them) that Bitcointalk gives to high-profile members who've plagiarized, but offer value to the forum.

It's all in the hands of the mods of this forum and I feel even mods are confused of who deserves what punishment. I may not like a person who has plagiarized for any kind of benefit but here the time matters as they are not repeat offenders.

Also, please note that in some cases the member's account was hacked and the hacker plagiarized posts to get the owner permanently banned. People are taking advantage of this mass ban.

[Theb]

Then again if the pros really outweighs the cons (which is just one plagiarized content) then I think it really do justify the ban being lifted by the admins. I've seen good posters, legendary members, and trustworthy person at present just got banned because of their plagiarized post which was posted 3-5 years ago that they obviously made when they were still low ranking members in the forum. Honestly digging dirt from them which was posted like I said 3-5 years ago shows how much they have changed and improved all through out their stay in the forum, and banning them from the mistake a couple years back would be a real waste of a good forum member.

For me I would rather have these permaban lifted members back rather than have low ranking members posting generic messages as well as spam all through out the forum, they might not be plagiarizing but it sure is an eyesore for me and maybe for other members as well.

[suchmoon]

How about we give it some time, 90-120 days to let the temp bans expire and see how the sig-less copy-pasters perform. Will some of them disappear due to not getting paid? In which case the sig ban is good enough, as it gives good users a second chance and effectively bans the financially-motivated ones. Will they abuse the sig ban? Not sure how they would do that though.

[RapTarX]

How about we give it some time, 90-120 days to let the temp bans expire and see how the sig-less copy-pasters perform. Will some of them disappear due to not getting paid? In which case the sig ban is good enough, as it gives good users a second chance and effectively bans the financially-motivated ones. Will they abuse the sig ban? Not sure how they would do that though.

If someone is financially motivated, he would not post as like he did before the ban. It would be easy to track if the list of users are limited. But from what I observed, there are hundreds of banned people and it would not be that easy to track their activities.
I would say sig ban must be of at least 1 year and if in case any user continue to contribute to the forum despite their sig ban, some reputed members vouch for them as well after some months, their ban can be reversed.

[eternalgloom]

Plagiarism is not a simple mistake in most cases, it's a conscious decision that people make in order to increase their post count and make money off of that.
Frankly, anyone who engages in copying other people's work without giving proper credit for it, should get banned immediately without any exceptions.

This is utter bullshit. I almost made this mistake today, and the only thing that reminded me to review my post was all this plagiarism paranoia that has been going on the past few days. I did not even know where the thing that I posted was from, i.e. had absolutely no idea it was plagiarism without a source until I looked it up.

I really don't know how someone could make a mistake like that. I mean the chances of you accidentally writing the same content as someone else, word-for-word, are just so small.
This reads as something you'd find in /r/thathappened to be honest. Without any concrete example of what you wrote, it really hard to believe you on this.

I mean if you just think logically about it, who writes a post and then consciously thinks about checking whether it's been written before, using the exact same words and structure?

Most people don't plagiarize, because they're just decent persons, so I'd highly recommend not giving any free-passes to those who do plagiarize.

It's a soap-opera-like discussion forum, I'm not submitting a dissertation for crying out loud. How do I de-merit this thread to oblivion?

Gee, thanks :-/ I was obviously talking about the conscious act of copying someone's work and passing it off as your own. Yes, if you do that, you're a shit person. I stand by what I said there.

[bitmover]

Plagiarism is not a simple mistake in most cases, it's a conscious decision that people make in order to increase their post count and make money off of that.
Frankly, anyone who engages in copying other people's work without giving proper credit for it, should get banned immediately without any exceptions.

This is utter bullshit. I almost made this mistake today, and the only thing that reminded me to review my post was all this plagiarism paranoia that has been going on the past few days. I did not even know where the thing that I posted was from, i.e. had absolutely no idea it was plagiarism without a source until I looked it up.

I really don't know how someone could make a mistake like that. I mean the chances of you accidentally writing the same content as someone else, word-for-word, are just so small.

I agree with this.
If you read a funny Tweet or something like that and you wanna say it again and you don't k ow the source , just write"I read this on Twitter, but I don't know where" or something like that.

This may be a problem for content writers, people who write articles.. they may be plagiarising their own articles by mistake. But this ban could be reversed (I think)

Maybe there could be some different punishment for old plagiarism (like 3-4 years, which is cellard case I believe). Maybe he should just receive a warning or a sig ban

[IIV]

Quoting and Plagiarizing are different things.
If the user is not mentioning the source and puts none of his/her opinion but fully copy pasted content as his/her own, they should be immediately banned.

[The Cryptovator]

Will some of them disappear due to not getting paid? In which case the sig ban is good enough, as it gives good users a second chance and effectively bans the financially-motivated ones. Will they abuse the sig ban? Not sure how they would do that though.

I believe most of them will less active although they will not disappear fully. Extend tepm ban without signature ban could not prove "contribution" of banned user. I think that is not easy task to abuse signature ban due to merit system. No one could easily skip it, they have to earn merit if they want to abuse ban but likely they will not able to do it. For example almost need a year to become Sr. member and need merit as well.

Overall I think current ban system is enough fine. They should say thanks to theymos that they are not banned permanently.

[YOSHIE]

for example / example:
If a student in the school is known to copy (copy paste), the class lecturer will definitely give a score or be released at school for the student.

In the world choose literature, creative ideas for every human being, in discussing at the Forum.
Likewise in the world of Bitcointalk, copy-paste, plagiarism is literature, an illegal idea that is very hated by the bitcointalk Forum.
The point is copy- paste activities are classified as despicable acts that have never been accepted everywhere.

Code:

Different from this one,
But this paste copy is not the same as the copy we talked about. Because this is related to worship, copy and paste activities are very mandatory. Therefore worship does not imitate the way of worship, so it does not deviate and go astray.

In this case all discussion activities must have ideas from each other's brain, for that bitcointalk forum strictly prohibits the meaning of plagiarism:

Meaning:
[1] Copy words or ideas from
others as their own.
[2]. Provide incorrect information about other people's quotes.
[3]. Copy so many words or ideas from sources that are part of most of your writing.

So it's the problem of copying (plagiarism), at the Bitcointalk Forum it has been final regarding the decisions of members being blocked since 2009.

[Lauda]

I really don't know how someone could make a mistake like that. I mean the chances of you accidentally writing the same content as someone else, word-for-word, are just so small.
This reads as something you'd find in /r/thathappened to be honest. Without any concrete example of what you wrote, it really hard to believe you on this[1].

I mean if you just think logically about it, who writes a post and then consciously thinks about checking whether it's been written before, using the exact same words and structure?

Yet it happened, yet I did it. We're talking about today. It has probably happened many times to me in the past. It has probably happened to many other people as well. You don't read a lot, do you?

Most people don't plagiarize, because they're just decent persons, so I'd highly recommend not giving any free-passes to those who do plagiarize.

It's a soap-opera-like discussion forum, I'm not submitting a dissertation for crying out loud. How do I de-merit this thread to oblivion?

Gee, thanks :-/ I was obviously talking about the conscious act of copying someone's work and passing it off as your own. Yes, if you do that, you're a shit person. I stand by what I said there.

Absolute e-warior bullshit. Nobody in the real world strongly cares about that unless we're talking about published/for-profit work. Focusing on such nonsense is why people remain with narrow-minded. Miss me with your virtue signalling bullshit. It is a acceptable mistake especially when it is done once or even very very rarely.

I agree with this.

Seriously shut up. The average narrow minded Joe doesn't have this problem, and I assume you are one. I'll be damned if I haven't passed off someone else's statements as my own thinking they are my own while destroying the block-size bullshit.
We are not talking about word-for-word plagiarism. We are talking about any kind of plagiarism. An unsourced paraphrase of someone's statement is plagiarism. If you don't believe this can happen by mistake, then you truly are a delusional, narrow-minded monkey. If I am resorting to such strong words, then you can be assured how stupid your thread is.
[1] Do you think anyone (in their right state-of-mind), who knows you and knows me, cares whether you believe me or not? The chance that I made this up, with zero beneficial incentive, is zero.

[philipma1957]

I really don't know how someone could make a mistake like that. I mean the chances of you accidentally writing the same content as someone else, word-for-word, are just so small.
This reads as something you'd find in /r/thathappened to be honest. Without any concrete example of what you wrote, it really hard to believe you on this.

I mean if you just think logically about it, who writes a post and then consciously thinks about checking whether it's been written before, using the exact same words and structure?

Yet it happened, yet I did it. We're talking about today. It has probably happened many times to me in the past. It has probably happened to many other people as well. You don't read a lot, do you?

Most people don't plagiarize, because they're just decent persons, so I'd highly recommend not giving any free-passes to those who do plagiarize.

It's a soap-opera-like discussion forum, I'm not submitting a dissertation for crying out loud. How do I de-merit this thread to oblivion?

Gee, thanks :-/ I was obviously talking about the conscious act of copying someone's work and passing it off as your own. Yes, if you do that, you're a shit person. I stand by what I said there.

Absolute e-warior bullshit. Nobody in the real world strongly cares about that unless we're talking about published/for-profit work. Focusing on such nonsense is why people remain with narrow-minded. Miss me with your virtue signalling bullshit. It is a acceptable mistake especially when it is done once or even very very rarely.

I agree with this.

Seriously shut up. The average narrow minded Joe doesn't have this problem, and I assume you are one. I'll be damned if I haven't passed off someone elses statements as my own thinking they are my own while destroying the block-size bullshit.
We are not talking about word-for-word plagiarism. We are talking about any kind of plagiarism. An unsourced paraphrase of someone's statement is plagiarism. If you don't believe this can happen by mistake, then you truly are a delusional idiot. If I am resorting to such strong words, then you may be assured how stupid your thread is.

So what safeguard from a person looking to hurt someone from doing this to an old post

I have never used Coinbase for buying BTC.  What kind of upcharge do they have?

good prices if they sell the coins to you. my order was canceled  1 hour before they were to pay it.  which means my 286 usd was frozen for 8 days.  4 of which were in the hands of coin base.  funny thing is they saved me money my price was just before the big drop. I was locked in for 92 usd a coin.  the coins were to be  monday the 8th of july. they were ordered june 29th.  

 it was my first purchase ever, but i had used them for sale of coins more then 12 times.  I was pissed they canceled but I used bit instant and got the coins at a better price.  I do not understand why they would cancel a sale at 92 btc a coin when the current price was  77 or 78 a coin.  I asked and was told i was high risk sale .  So I was polite and put in a new order which should be this monday.  the money for the coins is at 80 not 92 so to me they do not make a lot of sense.

Thanks for the review.  That's helpful.  But what do they charge per coin that you purchase?  A precentage, a flat rate??

 

"Absolute e-warior bullshit. Nobody in the real world strongly cares about that unless we're talking about published/for-profit work. Focusing on such nonsense is why people remain with narrow-minded. Miss me with your virtue signalling bullshit. It is a acceptable mistake especially when it is done once or even very very rarely."



93.74 usd  at 12:50 am eastern standard time is the base

 1% fee is 94 cents  

15 cent bank fee   flat does not change.

so 1% plus 15 cents over the base.

 the base is close to mtgox.    right now 94.51 coinbase  vs 95.01 mtgox

I went back to an old post and cut and pasted  the bold so it now looks like my cut and paste is original and Lauda's is a copy.

[Lauda]

So what safeguard from a person looking to hurt someone from doing this to an old post

That's a different problem, yes. There's this:



However, that is not nearly adequate. A moderator does not see what has changed. Also it could be used as a timed-attack. Insert it now and report in 2 years. That is another reason why this thread is bullshit. Imagine if we just banned you forever, philipma1957, because you plagiarised some random post 6 years ago?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

We've all seen the excuses in the recent mass ban appeals, first they claim to have no idea why they were banned and then they claim it's 'such a hard punishment' for a 'simple' mistake.

Those are the same things they've always said, and it's definitely bullshit. 

I'm not sure what the situation is with plagiarism bans right now--are people still getting permabans with some people getting exceptions in the form of signature bans?  If Theymos made an official post about it, I must have missed it--but I do know exceptions are being made for members who are otherwise productive members of the forum.

The main issue IMO with the recent mass banning is that the punishment is (I'm assuming) for plagiarism that happened a long time ago, and some of these members might not have repeated that behavior since then.  In those cases I do think it's very harsh to permaban them, though I think a signature ban is appropriate. 

OP, I agree that plagiarism is despicable and shouldn't be tolerated--but even if not all of the members who recently got caught got permabanned, it's definitely sending a loud and clear message to would-be plagiarists.  Hopefully we'll see a lot less of it from here on out.

[eternalgloom]

I really don't know how someone could make a mistake like that. I mean the chances of you accidentally writing the same content as someone else, word-for-word, are just so small.
This reads as something you'd find in /r/thathappened to be honest. Without any concrete example of what you wrote, it really hard to believe you on this.

I mean if you just think logically about it, who writes a post and then consciously thinks about checking whether it's been written before, using the exact same words and structure?

Yet it happened, yet I did it. We're talking about today. It has probably happened many times to me in the past. It has probably happened to many other people as well. You don't read a lot, do you?

Nice, attacking my point with passive-aggressive insults.

It's a soap-opera-like discussion forum, I'm not submitting a dissertation for crying out loud. How do I de-merit this thread to oblivion?

Gee, thanks :-/ I was obviously talking about the conscious act of copying someone's work and passing it off as your own. Yes, if you do that, you're a shit person. I stand by what I said there.

Absolute e-warior bullshit. Nobody in the real world strongly cares about that unless we're talking about published/for-profit work. Focusing on such nonsense is why people remain with narrow-minded. Miss me with your virtue signalling bullshit. It is a acceptable mistake especially when it is done once or even very very rarely.

How is plagiarism an acceptable mistake? Do you even know what plagiarism means?

From the Oxford Dictionary:

The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/plagiarism

In what world is it ever acceptable to pass someone else's work off as your own? That's what we're talking about, right?


Edit: I know I'm sounding a bit hypocritical here, since my reply is also fairly passive-aggressive. Sorry for that.

[philipma1957]

So what safeguard from a person looking to hurt someone from doing this to an old post

That's a different problem, yes. There's this:



However, that is not nearly adequate. A moderator does not see what has changed. Also it could be used as a timed-attack. Insert it now and report in 2 years. That is another reason why this thread is bullshit. Imagine if we just banned you forever, philipma1957, because you plagiarised some random post 6 years ago?

I see it as this  which means anyone could be attacked and it looks like there was something wrong when in fact  there was no issue done wrong.  Except by a scumbag fucking with the innocent person.

frankly I do not like copycats but I am not sure how to tell if someone did an edit and planted fake info against someone.

This would obviously be easy to use against people not liked or people that do good things stopping scammers.

[Lauda]

How is plagiarism an acceptable mistake? Do you even know what plagiarism means?

From the Oxford Dictionary:

The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/plagiarism

In what world is it ever acceptable to pass someone else's work off as your own? That's what we're talking about, right?

In this world, right here. Read again:

Absolute e-warior bullshit. Nobody in the real world strongly cares about that unless we're talking about published/for-profit work.

Acceptable or not, fact is that it can, has, and will happen as a mistake. Claiming otherwise is DISHONEST. This is not even up for debate as it's a factual statement. Hence, end of story.

I see it as this
-snip-

You need to hover over the date-time.
Meh, removed insult as this is stupid to the point of not being worth it.

[target]

Plagiarism by mistake is hard to prove. If it looks like someone plagiarized a content, it usually is by copy pasting it. They may have no intention of owning it themselves but you can just find someone will write exactly how the real author did. Rewriting content is even something that is unforgivable if you own the original, you'd feel violated if the copied contents actually grab more credits than yours.