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Author Topic: [2019-05-21] Bitfinex Argues Why Judge Should Dismiss NYAG Case in Latest Case  (Read 617 times)
mich (OP)
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May 21, 2019, 09:52:12 PM
 #1


https://www.coindesk.com/bitfinex-argues-why-judge-should-dismiss-nyag-case-in-latest-court-filings?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=coindesk&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=Organic%20

Bitfinex and Tether have asked a judge to dismiss the New York Attorney General’s (NYAG) case against the controversial cryptocurrency firms, claiming they have no customers in the state.

In new court filings Tuesday, lawyers for the two companies, which have overlapping owners and managers, also asked Judge Joel M. Cohen of the New York Supreme Court to stay the NYAG’s “onerous” request for documents from Bitfinex and Tether while he considers the motion.

The firms “have nothing to do with New York investors — the businesses do not allow New Yorkers on their platforms and do not advertise or otherwise do business here,” attorneys Jason Weinstein and David I. Miller wrote.

Further, the attorney general “has not identified, even in a general sense, any ‘victim’ in New York (or, it should be noted, anywhere else),” and the office is using a New York law, the Martin Act, that governs securities and commodities, of which Tether’s product, the stablecoin USDT, is neither, the lawyers argued.

Hence, the companies “respectfully request that the entire proceeding be dismissed for lack of personal and subject matter jurisdiction.”

In a separate affidavit, Stuart Hoegner, general counsel for both Bitfinex and Tether, wrote that both companies prohibit any U.S. residents, including New Yorkers, from transacting on their platforms, and that only verified Tether customers are allowed to redeem USDT for dollars, not just anyone who buys the stablecoin on the secondary market.

Backed by … bitcoin?

Separately, in a hearing last week, Miller let it slip that Tether had previously invested a portion of its reserves in bitcoin.

At some point before the NYAG obtained its preliminary injunction against the companies, “Tether actually did invest in instruments beyond cash and cash equivalents, including bitcoin, they bought bitcoin,” Miller told the court, according to a transcript of the May 16 hearing published Tuesday by crypto publication The Block. He later said it was “a small amount.”

It was a notable admission since until recently Tether has maintained that USDT was backed 1-for-1 with U.S. dollars (in February it updated its terms and conditions to say the collateral could include other assets, which later turned out to include a loan to Bitfinex). Even Judge Cohen sounded surprised.

“Tether sounded to me like sort of the calm in the storm of cryptocurrency trading,” he told Miller, according to the transcript. “And so if tether is backed by bitcoin, how is that consistent?”

One possible explanation is that the “small amount” is very small, and not really part of the backing. Alistair Milne, an investor in Bitfinex’s recent token sale, wrote on Twitter Tuesday afternoon that Tether holds less than 1 bitcoin simply to fund transactions on the Omni protocol, which runs on top of the original cryptocurrency’s blockchain.

To be precise, the company has 0.075 bitcoin, or about $600 worth, a speck compared to the $2.8 billion in tethers outstanding, according to an Omni Explorer link shared by Milne. Neither a spokesperson for Tether nor its attorney Miller had answered CoinDesk’s requests for comment by press time.

Late last month, the NYAG secured the preliminary injunction freezing Tether’s assets and asking for documents about a $625 million loan and a $900 million line of credit it offered to Bitfinex.

The crypto exchange needed the funds to continue processing customer withdrawals after losing access to some $850 million that is said to be held by Crypto Capital, a payment processor that is also in the cross-hairs of investigators.

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May 22, 2019, 04:09:17 AM
 #2



This is getting interesting as the Bitfinex and Tether saga continues in the court. While I am not for the tendency of those in the government to overstretch its power and jurisdiction, I am for the trial of this cryptocurrency exchange for the sake of getting the bottom of the things that transpired beyond the eyes of the public. There are many questions that Bitfinex has to answer and they got to clear their name and reputation so we can continue on bestowing our trust and confidence on their business operation. I am sure that soon Bitfinex can win on this case and I am hoping that they learned enough lessons on this mess. The thing is that no one is above the law and one should always be transparent otherwise you are just causing the rust to eat into you.
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May 22, 2019, 05:50:23 AM
 #3

"Only verified tether users can redeem USDT..."
Oh,so how Bitfinex is making it harder for the tether users to redeem their money.This is just one step closer to the exit scam.The gossips about the Tether reserve might be right.This is just a fractional reserve crypto bank scam that is coming to it's end.
They are using a part of the tether fiat reserve to buy bitcoin.This proves what a fraud tether actually is.

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May 22, 2019, 05:53:16 AM
 #4

This is getting interesting as the Bitfinex and Tether saga continues in the court. While I am not for the tendency of those in the government to overstretch its power and jurisdiction, I am for the trial of this cryptocurrency exchange for the sake of getting the bottom of the things that transpired beyond the eyes of the public. There are many questions that Bitfinex has to answer and they got to clear their name and reputation so we can continue on bestowing our trust and confidence on their business operation. I am sure that soon Bitfinex can win on this case and I am hoping that they learned enough lessons on this mess. The thing is that no one is above the law and one should always be transparent otherwise you are just causing the rust to eat into you.

this is just a dog and pony show, a spectacle. the NYAG has no power to do anything, and bitfinex and tether's lawyers know it.

they won't be talking like this when the CFTC/DOJ hammer comes down though. the feds are deep into a criminal investigation re market manipulation and i would be surprised if that case turns out favorably for bitfinex.

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May 23, 2019, 02:42:48 AM
 #5

@figmentofmyass. Agreed. This might also be good for the market if the cases against them were finally dropped hehehe.

@CryptoBry. I want Bitfinex to win. They did not exit scam and they did not steal from their users.

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July 04, 2019, 02:25:36 AM
 #6

News update.

Bitfinex has begun paying their loan to Tether. I reckon what the New York attorney general's office should do is more gross overreach and find the money processor and its bank partners that held Bitfinex users' funds hehehe.


Bitfinex is pleased to announce that on July 1, 2019, it repaid $100,000,000 of the outstanding loan facility to Tether. Bitfinex made this payment in fiat wired to Tether’s bank account. This amount was not yet due to be paid to Tether under the facility, but Bitfinex has made the prepayment based upon its financial position at the end of the second quarter of 2019.

Also on July 1st, Bitfinex fully prepaid all interest accrued under the loan facility to Tether up to the end of day on June 30, 2019, also in fiat.


Source https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/394




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July 10, 2019, 02:26:05 AM
 #7

News update.

It appears that Bitfinex might have broken some laws and regulations in the state of New York. The New York attorney general's office were given until July 8 to present a response after Bitfinex requested for a dismissal. They did and they appear very angry.

I speculate that this might end USDT and it might also end the bull market.



What the NYAG provided yesterday is comprehensive. Exhibits included in the latest filing appear to show that Bitfinex and Tether allowed New York investors—including the high profile Galaxy Digital CEO Mike Novogratz—to trade and redeem tethers until “early 2019,” when the investigation itself was well under way. (There was no immediate response from Galaxy Digital.) Tether and Bitfinex also allegedly opened accounts at several New York banks, housed most of their senior executives in the city, and engaged New York based accounting firms for audits.

Worse, the document alleges that the companies went to extraordinary lengths to accomodate their large New York investors, who apparently made up a considerable portion of the companies’ wealthiest customers. “In fact,” alleges the NYAG, Bitfinex and Tether assisted certain traders in “establishing foreign shell entities to become the nominal account holders—a work-around of Respondents’ purported ‘ban.’”

More damning is the allegation that the companies “loaned tethers to a New York trading firm.” As we reported last month, large “whales” can purchase high volumes of tethers directly, communicating their needs days in advance. Tether then creates these tethers, which it claims it only disperses once wire payments for each coin have come through. But if Tether indeed “loaned” tethers to investors, it suggests the enormous volumes of tethers that have attended almost every recent Bitcoin price surge represent not real dollars but debt—meaning tethers have, effectively, been minted out of thin air.


Read in full https://decrypt.co/7795/investigators-tether-loaned-usdt-to-investors-illegally-traded-in-new-york-ran-an-unregistered-securities-offering

NYAG response documents https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=/_PLUS_iqIuzGOBBoAaaiknE4Ag==

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=5zXI_PLUS_H3eM0AalVVQRiqZag==

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July 10, 2019, 05:55:52 AM
 #8

I speculate that this might end USDT and it might also end the bull market.

the AG's response was truly scathing and tether obviously violated NY laws......but i still don't understand what exactly the state of NY can/will do about it. the original court order was to stop bitfinex from raiding tether's reserves and to compel documents pertinent to their investigation.

so let's say they prove their case in court about lawbreaking in NY. what happens then? i've seen the feds take exchanges/brokers down before but never the state of NY....

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July 10, 2019, 06:43:26 AM
 #9

I am not supporting the Attorney General of New York in any part. But Tether should be more transparent about its assets. They claim that every coin is backed one-to-one against USD or equivalent assets. But then they are saying that some of the backup is made of Bitcoin. How can a volatile asset such as Bitcoin be used to backup a stablecoin?
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July 11, 2019, 01:08:06 AM
 #10

I speculate that this might end USDT and it might also end the bull market.

the AG's response was truly scathing and tether obviously violated NY laws......but i still don't understand what exactly the state of NY can/will do about it. the original court order was to stop bitfinex from raiding tether's reserves and to compel documents pertinent to their investigation.

so let's say they prove their case in court about lawbreaking in NY. what happens then? i've seen the feds take exchanges/brokers down before but never the state of NY....

I do not know how it might occur. However, I reckon with the cryptospace finding many ways to avoid regulations most of the time, the regulators might be very determined in taking down one big fish to make a statement.

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July 11, 2019, 01:49:14 AM
 #11

I do not know how it might occur. However, I reckon with the cryptospace finding many ways to avoid regulations most of the time, the regulators might be very determined in taking down one big fish to make a statement.

here's an idea. maybe the NY prosecutors are just a pawn in a larger game. with this scathing filing, they have obviously established jurisdiction over bitfinex/tether. that gives them the right to compel lots and lots more documents pertinent to possible fraud, securities violations, violations of their previous settlement with the CFTC, etc etc etc.

even if NY can't shut them down or freeze their money, discovery in this case may hand the USA a federal case on a silver platter. and the USA likely can shut them down, seize servers, and freeze at least some of their money.

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July 11, 2019, 10:24:03 AM
 #12

But if Tether indeed “loaned” tethers to investors, it suggests the enormous volumes of tethers that have attended almost every recent Bitcoin price surge represent not real dollars but debt—meaning tethers have, effectively, been minted out of thin air.[/glow][/i]

Tether is now several years old. You can't keep something like that up for this long without cracks showing at some point. The simplest explanation for this not happening is that Tether operates how they claim to operate.

The biggest threat to Tether has always been regulators as this is ably demonstrating.
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July 11, 2019, 12:18:47 PM
 #13

Exactly. Tether works well until the regulators get to it
The get to it part is where things get a bit weird. I honestly would have expected regulators to whoop Tether like a year or two ago already. How many alarm bells needs to ring before they stand up?

The SEC even approved the acquisition of Poloniex where Tether was allowed to be listed as fiat pair. If regulators were seriously considering to whoop Tether they would have forced Poloniex to drop Tether.

If that wasn't enough, we have people using Tether while they know it's shady but don't care because it provides a useful utility within crypto. Tether has survived so much shit that I don't see it bust at all.

BSV is not the real Bcash. Bcash is the real Bcash.
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July 11, 2019, 12:52:20 PM
 #14

...
The biggest threat to Tether has always been regulators as this is ably demonstrating.

Exactly.

One of the main tools to combat the threat is to avoid using centralized entities that can be coerced by a government somewhere as this illustrates perfectly.   All of these centralized entities are either scams or are open to coercion by governments somewhere.  So in the long term very few (if any) are going to be safe. 

At some point, some time, somewhere, someone will end up forcing each of the entities to bend to their wills.  Or we will find that it was a scam from the start. 
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July 11, 2019, 01:03:36 PM
 #15

The get to it part is where things get a bit weird. I honestly would have expected regulators to whoop Tether like a year or two ago already. How many alarm bells needs to ring before they stand up?

The SEC even approved the acquisition of Poloniex where Tether was allowed to be listed as fiat pair. If regulators were seriously considering to whoop Tether they would have forced Poloniex to drop Tether.

If that wasn't enough, we have people using Tether while they know it's shady but don't care because it provides a useful utility within crypto. Tether has survived so much shit that I don't see it bust at all.

I often wonder about this too. Not a great deal makes sense about it all. You'd think the second it put its head above the parapet it would've been swatted flat but there it is being as ubiquitous as ever.

I suppose unlike something like Liberty Reserve it's remained a creature entirely within crypto exchanges with no attempt to become anything else. It's primarily a parking mechanism, not payment or extraction.

One of Bitfinex's cleverest moves has been to deprogram the majority from attempting to turn it into actual dollars. That's where the legit stablecoin issuers get problematic and uptight.
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July 11, 2019, 02:16:48 PM
 #16

One of Bitfinex's cleverest moves has been to deprogram the majority from attempting to turn it into actual dollars.  
I don't think Bitfinex did that on purpose, but they won't complain about not having to buy back something that might not be backed at all by handing people over actual dollars. The distribution of Tether happens naturally.

Most of the Tether ends up being sent to exchanges such as Binance, Huobi and OKEx to buy Bitcoin and other coins with. These exchanges directly happen to be the biggest holders of Tether by far.

Once people have bought their Bitcoin those on the other side of the trade hold Tether but most likely have nothing to do with Bitfinex. This props up prices because people are always motivated to buy back Bitcoin at one point.

BSV is not the real Bcash. Bcash is the real Bcash.
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July 11, 2019, 06:56:51 PM
 #17

Exactly. Tether works well until the regulators get to it
The get to it part is where things get a bit weird. I honestly would have expected regulators to whoop Tether like a year or two ago already. How many alarm bells needs to ring before they stand up?

They are obviously good at hiding behind lots of shell companies. Their CFO once called it "banking like criminals." Their money isn't easily found and seized, and US regulators work very slowly, making cases over the course of years. They often like to make a big seizure when they drop indictments.

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July 12, 2019, 01:35:45 AM
 #18

I do not know how it might occur. However, I reckon with the cryptospace finding many ways to avoid regulations most of the time, the regulators might be very determined in taking down one big fish to make a statement.

here's an idea. maybe the NY prosecutors are just a pawn in a larger game. with this scathing filing, they have obviously established jurisdiction over bitfinex/tether. that gives them the right to compel lots and lots more documents pertinent to possible fraud, securities violations, violations of their previous settlement with the CFTC, etc etc etc.

even if NY can't shut them down or freeze their money, discovery in this case may hand the USA a federal case on a silver platter. and the USA likely can shut them down, seize servers, and freeze at least some of their money.

I reckon money laundering would certainly be one of the violations. It might be real or implied but it would be the best chance the agency has to hand this case over to the FBI.

The mainstream news media would love this storyboard, bitcoin exchange used for money laundering to fund terrorism.

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July 23, 2019, 04:21:51 AM
 #19

News update.

I am shaking my head in confusion. Who is lying? Who is telling the truth? I reckon they might be both lying. Bitfinex is looking for ambiguity to evade the law, the New York attorney general's office is looking for minor details to charge Bitfinex.


The latest filings in the New York Attorney General’s suit against iFinex see the exchange fighting against the OAG’s claims of New York jurisdiction. The filings uploaded today claim the OAG misled the court in its July 7 filings, making New York connections seem stronger than they are.

In the filings, the OAG claims Bitfinex had operations in New York when it loaned Tethers to a New York based trading firm and opened up an account with another to facilitate the transaction. Bitfinex said this is misleading, and the borrower is in fact a foreign entity, and the New York trading firm was only utilized to complete the transaction.

In addition to this, Bitfinex claims the OAG made similar misleading claims in the so-called Whitehurst Affirmation, which contains a list of Eligible Contract Participants (ECP) showing New York logins from a professional trading firm using Bitfinex. The exchange claims each login is linked to a foreign ECP rather than New York-based companies.


Read in full https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/07/22/bitfinex-asserts-nyag-made-misleading-claims-of-jurisdiction-in-new-case-filings/

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July 23, 2019, 04:46:11 AM
 #20

I am shaking my head in confusion. Who is lying? Who is telling the truth? I reckon they might be both lying. Bitfinex is looking for ambiguity to evade the law, the New York attorney general's office is looking for minor details to charge Bitfinex.

it's possible neither one is lying. bitfinex has always been open about the fact that they allow foreign organized ECPs that might otherwise be defined as US persons. the prosecutors seem to be asserting that that these are still new york entities. i don't think any of us know new york law well enough to say one way or the other.

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