BestMixer is gone, seized by the Financial Crime Investigation

[LeGaulois]

BTC that pass through mixing cannot go into Exchange because they would be immediately blocked, this is the harsh truth and is why they are willing to pay up to 5% tax.

Not true, or show me a link if you have.

Why do you think he was seized?
Do you really need proof that what passes from those mixing is almost all the result of crime?

We'll see more close, and if that will be useful to stop criminals I will be happy. One thing is for sure, I personally will not feel the lack of these services.
 

As if by magic they will disappear one by one these services, and with them their advertisement on this forum. It's only a matter of time.

Will, they shut down the whole US banks industry since the USD is the currency the most used worldwide? Only criminals use banks.

[CryptoReggae]

BTC that pass through mixing cannot go into Exchange because they would be immediately blocked, this is the harsh truth and is why they are willing to pay up to 5% tax.

Not true, or show me a link if you have.

Why do you think he was seized?
Do you really need proof that what passes from those mixing is almost all the result of crime?

We'll see more close, and if that will be useful to stop criminals I will be happy. One thing is for sure, I personally will not feel the lack of these services.
 

As if by magic they will disappear one by one these services, and with them their advertisement on this forum. It's only a matter of time.

Will, they shut down the whole US banks industry since the USD is the currency the most used worldwide? Only criminals use banks.

I don't get that. What does the banks and the USD have to do with this discussion?
While wanting to connect the two things, I do not turn out there are banks online where send stolen money that then distribute you cleaned up another account, and if they exist are illegal, How illegal they will be and should be  illegal the services mixing. This is to protect the scammed and the robbed.

Remember that anyone could find yourself cheated or robbed, too, and if this will help to catch these criminals I will be delighted.

[LeGaulois]

I was trying to follow your logic since banks also use their platform to help 'scammers'. I'm not talking about a bank user who disputes a bank transfer or something like that. I'm talking about the billions moving around banks on behalf the criminals, oligarchy, Trump, companies, taxes evasion or whatever it is... Hello Panama Papers.

In the same way, they used banks to do their shady activities so we can say. I'm not saying we shouldn't fight illegal activities, just that they're doing it the wrong way. Well like they currently do with fiats. Mixers will always exist as banks do.

But the point is that you need to get that some people may need to use a mixer it doesn't mean they're criminal, believe me.
Otherwise, what are your argument to be against people seeking privacy and use a mixer (considering they do nothing illegal)

[CryptoReggae]

I was trying to follow your logic since banks also use their platform to help 'scammers'. I'm not talking about a bank user who disputes a bank transfer or something like that. I'm talking about the billions moving around banks on behalf the criminals, oligarchy, Trump, companies, taxes evasion or whatever it is... Hello Panama Papers.

In the same way, they used banks to do their shady activities so we can say. I'm not saying we shouldn't fight illegal activities, just that they're doing it the wrong way. Well like they currently do with fiats. Mixers will always exist as banks do.

But the point is that you need to get that some people may need to use a mixer it doesn't mean they're criminal, believe me.
Otherwise, what are your argument to be against people seeking privacy and use a mixer (considering they do nothing illegal)

Credit transfers or Fiat currency cannot be followed on a blockchain. Here instead we can follow the flow, I see only good things.

I try to imagine the Panama Papers on blockchain, it would have been very useful to have the TX.

[gentlemand]

I was trying to follow your logic since banks also use their platform to help 'scammers'.

Why bother engaging this willy? It's boring and pointless. I'm interested in the actual event, not what a silly sausage thinks while throwing down its irrelevant moral judgements.

[dothebeats]

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/bestmixerio-service-shut-down-for-laundering-200-million-/

It looks pretty general according to that. There's no mention of specific crimes, just tracing lots of questionable addresses to them. Well, if I were running any mixer I'd be off on holiday right now.

Not entirely sure what made their platform the hot target for FIOD, but for sure this has something to do with money laundering in large amounts. If the primary objective of the seizure and closure of the said platform is due to basic mixing, then I don't think mixers would be a thing of the future and a lot of governments would be against its idea.

As for the commotion happening around in this thread, @CryptoReggae, if you think mixing coins is a way to help criminals further their nefarious doings, tell that to the Swiss bank accounts and other offshore bank accounts used by crimelords, corrupt and narcopoliticians to hide their precious ill-gotten wealth. Every system has its dark, flawed and dirty side. This ain't utopia you're living at, so expect something rotten and dirty.

[CryptoReggae]

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/bestmixerio-service-shut-down-for-laundering-200-million-/

It looks pretty general according to that. There's no mention of specific crimes, just tracing lots of questionable addresses to them. Well, if I were running any mixer I'd be off on holiday right now.

Not entirely sure what made their platform the hot target for FIOD, but for sure this has something to do with money laundering in large amounts. If the primary objective of the seizure and closure of the said platform is due to basic mixing, then I don't think mixers would be a thing of the future and a lot of governments would be against its idea.

As for the commotion happening around in this thread, @CryptoReggae, if you think mixing coins is a way to help criminals further their nefarious doings, tell that to the Swiss bank accounts and other offshore bank accounts used by crimelords, corrupt and narcopoliticians to hide their precious ill-gotten wealth. Every system has its dark, flawed and dirty side. This ain't utopia you're living at, so expect something rotten and dirty.

Europol states that "the investigation so far into this case has shown that many of the mixed cryptocurrencies on Bestmixer.io had a criminal origin or destination" and that "the mixer was probably used to conceal and launder criminal flows of money."
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/tiny/dutch-authorities-seize-crypto-mixing-service-bestmixer-io/


It's not me who thinks it, it's the facts. And we'll see that it'll only be a matter of time, one by one will fall all the main mixers because they have no control over the origin of these BTC.

Yes, I think it's just a big recycling and they don't serve anything else.Justifying a crime with another crime (bank recycling) is not a good reason to defend a substantially unnecessary service.

Time is a gentleman.

[malevolent]

Europol states that "the investigation so far into this case has shown that many of the mixed cryptocurrencies on Bestmixer.io had a criminal origin or destination" and that "the mixer was probably used to conceal and launder criminal flows of money."
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/tiny/dutch-authorities-seize-crypto-mixing-service-bestmixer-io/

It's not me who thinks it, it's the facts. And we'll see that it'll only be a matter of time, one by one will fall all the main mixers because they have no control over the origin of these BTC.

Yes, I think it's just a big recycling and they don't serve anything else.Justifying a crime with another crime (bank recycling) is not a good reason to defend a substantially unnecessary service.

Time is a gentleman.

"many [...] had a criminal origin or destination"

"was probably used to conceal and launder criminal [...]"

They're speaking in platitudes, if they had been able to prove bestmixer knowingly worked to launder criminal proceeds, they'd be much more confident. Meaning they spent tax money chasing a business they can't even tell if it caused anyone any harm.

[figmentofmyass]

...Holy crap these fucking idiots stored their servers in the open/europe...? ... Consider any transaction/mixing you ever made/did using Bestmixer.io to be revealed/deanonymized.

incredible lack of foresight! almost stinks of a honeypot. their servers were all in the netherlands and luxembourg, of all places?! that's asking to have europol mirroring your servers.

I can only imagine the revenue Chipmixer is generating... They must be a pretty big target, and i am pretty sure there's probably already some sort of investigation agains them. - despite doing nothing wrong? I mean... What exactly is Bestmixer.io accused of? money laundering?

that's what the press release alludes to, but there is literally no charge listed.

[leea-1334]

The Dutch authorities are really quick. I always wondered about Mixers, some survived for so long, some like Bestmixer just got caught so easily. $200 million is a lot of money,,, but I wonder also how did the authorities determine that was the amount of money laundered? Like if they find out other mixers, I thought it was mainly for privacy?

[figmentofmyass]

The Dutch authorities are really quick. I always wondered about Mixers, some survived for so long, some like Bestmixer just got caught so easily. $200 million is a lot of money,,, but I wonder also how did the authorities determine that was the amount of money laundered?

they seized bestmixer's servers---or at least a half dozen of them. it sounds like they have logs of all activity for the past year. they are probably analyzing tx inputs/outputs against letters of guarantee as we speak.

anyone who has used bestmixer in the past should probably consider their transactions de-anonymized.

[PrimeNumber7]

CoinJoin

It is possible to de-anonymize CoinJoin transactions if the input/output sizes are not all the same. CJ will provide privacy from someone casually looking at your transaction, but not someone with some amount of resources.

The Dutch government claims to have been monitoring transactions going through their service for roughly a year. They also posted a message on the domain seizure message that says:

YOU ARE NOT ANONYMOUS

I don't think the purpose of this was to gather information about BestMixer's users, but was to inspire FUD for those who might use other mixing services.

I believe the best way to maximize privacy is to not reuse bitcoin addresses, and encourage other people including the people you trade with to not reuse addresses. When someone uses a mixer, they will often get lazy, and when something like this happens, they will lose a lot of privacy they never really had. If you use bitcoin correct, and everyone else does so too, that is not reuse addresses, an adversary might use incomplete information and some assumptions to minimally break your privacy, but your overall privacy will be lower than it would be otherwise.

[buwaytress]

Ouch damn, nice catch there LeGaulois. Probably the biggest news regarding mixers I can recall since BitMixer announced its own shutdown... almost 2 years ago now? More or less not long before the time Chipmixer was born. Gives us quite a lot of perspective on how long (or not) things last in this space, doesn't it?

Read the news and I have to say, it's probably about due time something like this happened, especially if it's really true that the BitMixer method (which is used by BestMixer and most others) has been successfully cracked.

[Kemarit]

The Dutch authorities are really quick. I always wondered about Mixers, some survived for so long, some like Bestmixer just got caught so easily. $200 million is a lot of money,,, but I wonder also how did the authorities determine that was the amount of money laundered? Like if they find out other mixers, I thought it was mainly for privacy?

Well the obvious answer is that they are not anonymous,  . Maybe the authorities are really looking and casing everything before they seize Bestmixer, as for the implications? could lead to arrest. Remind me of this thread, Breaking Mixing Services.

The most important conclusion of my work is, that even though a mixing service/a mixing algorithm might seem to be reliable at the moment, through a single leak/implementation fault, an attacker could be able to deanonymize any past transaction which has been processed by the mixing services. Even though the leak/implementation fault gets fixed by the service, every transaction which has been processed prior to the fix is irreversible vulnerable.

bitmixer.io & coinmixer.se are offline now, however its still possible to use the bugs I describe in my thesis to reverse nearly all transactions which have ever been processed by these services.
In my thesis, I attacked coinmixer.se (at the time of writing it was the biggest centralized mixing service), however - except chipmixer.com1 - every other centralized mixing service I checked could be broken in a similar fashion.

And two months after Felix release his thesis, one mxing services fall down. 

[buwaytress]

And two months after Felix release his thesis, one mxing services fall down. 

Heh, yeah, it's the same guy I linked above. He probably shared enough in his work for the authorities to attempt the same. Fairly simple (not for me, but for someone with enough technical knowledge) in the end, it seems. There's quite a bit of work going on in the Dutch system too, so really not surprised, except that it took this long. Almost a year of investigation, if we believe their admission.

On another note now, this will only result in stronger methods being developed, and a gravitation towards superior mixers. It was always going to be survival of the fittest!

[Kemarit]

And two months after Felix release his thesis, one mxing services fall down. 

Heh, yeah, it's the same guy I linked above. He probably shared enough in his work for the authorities to attempt the same. Fairly simple (not for me, but for someone with enough technical knowledge) in the end, it seems. There's quite a bit of work going on in the Dutch system too, so really not surprised, except that it took this long. Almost a year of investigation, if we believe their admission.

On another note now, this will only result in stronger methods being developed, and a gravitation towards superior mixers. It was always going to be survival of the fittest!

Yep, those remaining mixing services left in the game should up their 'tempo', another lessons learn from this debacle, servers should be located somewhere not within reach of authorities, (although US has proven in the past they can get anything) ;. So let's see how it goes, cat-and-mouse game right now. . Probably the Dutch authorities wanted to make sure everything is in order before they made the seizure and that the case is tight. Let's look at @LeGaulois 2019 List Bitcoin Mixers Bitcoin Tumblers Websites and see who's next.

[LeGaulois]

There is this post from another thread, I found it interesting. This is ambiguous but a mixer is truly legal up to a point. I guess if set up correctly the person behind is safe. They just have to shut up and take the money.. Could be interesting to check Bitmixer.io just out of curiousity

...So I stumbled upon this:

While cryptocurrency mixing services are legal, "The legality changes when a mixing service advertises itself as a success method to avoid various anti-money laundering policies via anonymity. This is actively offering a money laundering service," said Fokker.

So for as long as mixers don't show a faq as to why you should mix your coins (which Bestmixer had), they're perfectly legal? Or are there other factors at work here
...

[gentlemand]

There is this post from another thread, I found it interesting. This is ambiguous but a mixer is truly legal up to a point. I guess if set up correctly the person behind is safe. They just have to shut up and take the money.. Could be interesting to check Bitmixer.io just out of curiousity

Kind of a strange piece of wording.

So you can be an anti AML/KYC operation as long as you don't say you're an anti AML/KYC operation out loud?

It's not as if they were taunting the authorities. They were pointing out what everyone already knows.

[AdolfinWolf]

CoinJoin

It is possible to de-anonymize CoinJoin transactions if the input/output sizes are not all the same. CJ will provide privacy from someone casually looking at your transaction, but not someone with some amount of resources.

The Dutch government claims to have been monitoring transactions going through their service for roughly a year. They also posted a message on the domain seizure message that says:

YOU ARE NOT ANONYMOUS

I don't think the purpose of this was to gather information about BestMixer's users, but was to inspire FUD for those who might use other mixing services.

It literally was the purpose, if not the end result. (See "Seized servers and transaction data captured") (You quoted it yourself? lol?)
They're investigating the data and sharing it with Interpol etc.

I believe the best way to maximize privacy is to not reuse bitcoin addresses, and encourage other people including the people you trade with to not reuse addresses. When someone uses a mixer, they will often get lazy, and when something like this happens, they will lose a lot of privacy they never really had. If you use bitcoin correct, and everyone else does so too, that is not reuse addresses, an adversary might use incomplete information and some assumptions to minimally break your privacy, but your overall privacy will be lower than it would be otherwise.

You're not making sense.
Not reusing adresses still don't break any cryptographic "chains" the link will only get broken if you use a mixer of sorts.

Anonymity is not necessarily improved when not reusing adresses....

[crairezx20]

OH my!!! I am so late to see this precious news. The bad thing there I think they save all transactions from bad coins to clean coins. Unlike chipmixer that they delete the history after a week that is why it's still good to use chipmixer than other mixers.

And I think this is the reason why theymos post in beginners help section I was recently thinking what is the reason but right now I know.