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Author Topic: Socialism is so bad that it allows poor people to live. Horrible true story  (Read 9846 times)
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May 23, 2019, 02:46:05 PM
Merited by squatz1 (2)
 #1

Hey

I just wanted to share this study proving something reaaaaaaally horrible. In horrible socialist countries like France... Poor people actually have the same care than the rich.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w24623.pdf

Joke aside, health is a major proof that free market is just market controled by money. Nothing else.

Do you want a society where health is dependant on your wealth?


There is a persistent lie spread saying that nationalizing a market is making it inneficient and stupidly buraucratic.

Well sorry to say but difference between a nationalized market and a free but regulated market is, for health, 50% more costly for USA and extremely inequal system.


Socialism is horrible right?

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May 23, 2019, 02:57:26 PM
Merited by PrimeNumber7 (1), iamsheikhadil (1)
 #2

Hey

I just wanted to share this study proving something reaaaaaaally horrible. In horrible socialist countries like France... Poor people actually have the same care than the rich.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w24623.pdf

Joke aside, health is a major proof that free market is just market controled by money. Nothing else.

Do you want a society where health is dependant on your wealth?


There is a persistent lie spread saying that nationalizing a market is making it inneficient and stupidly buraucratic.

Well sorry to say but difference between a nationalized market and a free but regulated market is, for health, 50% more costly for USA and extremely inequal system.


Socialism is horrible right?

Health is a service offered by people. People with money will always be able to afford better health care it is that simple. I know some wealthy families that just hire a doctor full time in private practices. I don't blame a doctor for the study they put into their career to then go private to help people with money. If I worked that hard to become that good as a doctor I would want to get the most value out of it.

You are saying doctors should be slaves to the people?

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May 23, 2019, 03:05:25 PM
 #3

You are saying doctors should be slaves to the people?

Yes, in France doctors aren't paid. And they also work where we order to. It's exactly this, doctors are slaves you're perfectly right.

Yesterday I went to the doctor and he told me "sorry master I think you aren't really sick" so I beat him to death because he didn't call me "grand master". Imagine the nerve.

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May 23, 2019, 03:44:51 PM
 #4

You are saying doctors should be slaves to the people?

Yes, in France doctors aren't paid. And they also work where we order to. It's exactly this, doctors are slaves you're perfectly right.

Yesterday I went to the doctor and he told me "sorry master I think you aren't really sick" so I beat him to death because he didn't call me "grand master". Imagine the nerve.

Way to use sarcasm to avoid responding to a completely valid point. You wonder why I act like such a cunt to you... because you are a cunt. Worst of all you are a cunt with no argument.


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May 23, 2019, 04:02:07 PM
 #5

....
There is a persistent lie spread saying that nationalizing a market is making it inneficient and stupidly buraucratic.

Well sorry to say but difference between a nationalized market and a free but regulated market is, for health, 50% more costly for USA and extremely inequal system.


Socialism is horrible right?
Must be why Mick Jagger came to the USA for his surgery....
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May 23, 2019, 06:18:04 PM
Merited by squatz1 (2), PrimeNumber7 (1)
 #6

Poor people actually have the same care than the rich.

Do the poor people get the absolute best health care modern technology can possibly give, as soon as possible, money no object no matter if it costs $100mm?
I highly doubt it..

How about the rich guy? Is he not allowed to have that even if he can pay for it himself?

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May 23, 2019, 06:56:12 PM
 #7

Socialism creates disincentives to work and also to maximize productivity when working. It fails every time it has been tried and each time it has been tried, the country’s people see lower standard of living and the state has had to use violent force to compel people to participate in the socialism.

Socialism has killed hundreds of millions of people over the past 120 years.

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May 23, 2019, 08:46:31 PM
 #8

Do the poor people get the absolute best health care modern technology can possibly give, as soon as possible, money no object no matter if it costs $100mm?
I highly doubt it..
I live in Finland, as long if it's possible to provide, and necessary then yes. Also what the hell costs $100mm per person? Nothing.

How about the rich guy? Is he not allowed to have that even if he can pay for it himself?

Cheesy of course not, rich have no right for healthcare! What an earth are you talking about? They are eligible for the same heatlhcare.
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May 23, 2019, 09:05:33 PM
Merited by squatz1 (2)
 #9

Do the poor people get the absolute best health care modern technology can possibly give, as soon as possible, money no object no matter if it costs $100mm?
I highly doubt it..
I live in Finland, as long if it's possible to provide, and necessary then yes. Also what the hell costs $100mm per person? Nothing.

How necessary?
Is the rich guy allowed to buy products or services that may not meet your definition of necessary?

Like, if an Xray is recommended and will probably do, but the guy also wants a CAT scan and an MRI to be extra sure.. Can he pay extra for that? And also go to another doctor for a 2nd opinion?

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May 23, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
 #10


Socialism has killed hundreds of millions of people over the past 120 years.

Yabut, it was the capitalists that supplied the socialists with the guns to do the killing. They made a load of money doing this.

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May 24, 2019, 12:30:55 AM
 #11

Poor people actually have the same care than the rich.

Do the poor people get the absolute best health care modern technology can possibly give, as soon as possible, money no object no matter if it costs $100mm?
I highly doubt it..

How about the rich guy? Is he not allowed to have that even if he can pay for it himself?

+1 to that.

Socialism isn't a good system, and it leads to a country in disarray as we see in Venezuela. It causes the government to give and give (in the forms of welfare) and take and take and take (in the form of taxes) until there is nothing left to give and nothing more to take. It's not a system that anyone should have to live under, as it will lead to the untimely demise of your government.




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May 24, 2019, 12:57:54 AM
Merited by PrimeNumber7 (1)
 #12

Socialism creates disincentives to work and also to maximize productivity when working. It fails every time it has been tried and each time it has been tried, the country’s people see lower standard of living and the state has had to use violent force to compel people to participate in the socialism.

Socialism has killed hundreds of millions of people over the past 120 years.

Capitalism has killed more people than socialism.
"The thing is most deaths of the last 600 years since neo liberalism and colonialism merged into a single destructive ideology is attributed to capitalism and the capitalist and elite political class need for profit and power. Yet its become so normalised that many wont link it to capitalism"

"Just the distribution of resources, something that is a factor to add to the Communist death toll, is disregarded when addressing Capitalism.

I wonder how many people die a year from not being able to afford basic necessities."

 
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May 24, 2019, 02:24:54 AM
 #13

Socialism creates disincentives to work and also to maximize productivity when working. It fails every time it has been tried and each time it has been tried, the country’s people see lower standard of living and the state has had to use violent force to compel people to participate in the socialism.

Socialism has killed hundreds of millions of people over the past 120 years.

Capitalism has killed more people than socialism.
"The thing is most deaths of the last 600 years since neo liberalism and colonialism merged into a single destructive ideology is attributed to capitalism and the capitalist and elite political class need for profit and power. Yet its become so normalised that many wont link it to capitalism"

"Just the distribution of resources, something that is a factor to add to the Communist death toll, is disregarded when addressing Capitalism.

I wonder how many people die a year from not being able to afford basic necessities."

I SEE! Now every death due to starvation is now a result of Capitalism! Maybe you can expand that net even further and blame Capitalism for the fact that we are not yet immortal. It is too bad we didn't discover how evil Capitalism was back in the days that humans were hunter gatherers, it could have saved so many lives!


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May 24, 2019, 04:14:30 AM
 #14

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.76.6.661
Socialism doesn't work 7% of the time.

Do the poor people get the absolute best health care modern technology can possibly give, as soon as possible, money no object no matter if it costs $100mm?
I highly doubt it..
I live in Finland, as long if it's possible to provide, and necessary then yes. Also what the hell costs $100mm per person? Nothing.

How necessary?
Is the rich guy allowed to buy products or services that may not meet your definition of necessary?

Like, if an Xray is recommended and will probably do, but the guy also wants a CAT scan and an MRI to be extra sure.. Can he pay extra for that? And also go to another doctor for a 2nd opinion?
Wanting a scan is not how healthcare works.  The experts determine what is needed and get a 2nd opinion if they aren't sure and only recommend what is needed.

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May 24, 2019, 04:28:14 AM
Merited by eddie13 (2)
 #15

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.76.6.661
Socialism doesn't work 7% of the time.

Do the poor people get the absolute best health care modern technology can possibly give, as soon as possible, money no object no matter if it costs $100mm?
I highly doubt it..
I live in Finland, as long if it's possible to provide, and necessary then yes. Also what the hell costs $100mm per person? Nothing.

How necessary?
Is the rich guy allowed to buy products or services that may not meet your definition of necessary?

Like, if an Xray is recommended and will probably do, but the guy also wants a CAT scan and an MRI to be extra sure.. Can he pay extra for that? And also go to another doctor for a 2nd opinion?
Wanting a scan is not how healthcare works.  The experts determine what is needed and get a 2nd opinion if they aren't sure and only recommend what is needed.

By experts you mean employees of the government? So what you are saying is under socialism you don't choose what kind of health care you get, the government does? Sounds wonderful. Tell me, did you eat lots of paint chips as a kid?


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May 24, 2019, 04:37:09 AM
 #16

Let me tell a secret: free healthcare system doesn't work.

image loading...

image loading...

Sadly, healthcare is an expensive service, who promises it for free is lying to people.
We need to be realistic and look for real solutions to solve issues. Demagogy like offering free stuff to the poors doesn't help us fixing any problems.

 
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May 24, 2019, 05:25:37 AM
 #17

Socialism creates disincentives to work and also to maximize productivity when working. It fails every time it has been tried and each time it has been tried, the country’s people see lower standard of living and the state has had to use violent force to compel people to participate in the socialism.

Socialism has killed hundreds of millions of people over the past 120 years.

Capitalism has killed more people than socialism.
"The thing is most deaths of the last 600 years since neo liberalism and colonialism merged into a single destructive ideology is attributed to capitalism and the capitalist and elite political class need for profit and power. Yet its become so normalised that many wont link it to capitalism"

"Just the distribution of resources, something that is a factor to add to the Communist death toll, is disregarded when addressing Capitalism.

I wonder how many people die a year from not being able to afford basic necessities."
I strongly disagree with your conclusions, but I believe you are fair to make that argument.

I very strongly believe in personal responsibility, for the most part, in a capitalist society, a person's situation is the result of their own actions. Over time, a person has choices they can make with regards to their job, their earnings and what they spend their money on. If someone buys luxuries they cannot afford, and later is unable to pay for certain items they need, this is their own fault. There are many social programs, both government funded welfare and private charities that provide a safety net to those in need and those in crisis.

In the winter, I will sometimes read about some number of homeless people and some people without heat dying due to severe cold in Northern CA and in Washington state, and I have every reason to believe this happens on the east coast as well. This is obviously very unfortunate, but the percentage of deaths is very low. I found an article that claims ~1300 people die from cold exposure every year in the US, and I don't believe all of these are the result of being poor. I also found a quora article about starvation in the US, and one of the answers cites a website that claims 0.64 people per 100,000 die every year from starvation.  

Wanting a scan is not how healthcare works.  The experts determine what is needed and get a 2nd opinion if they aren't sure and only recommend what is needed.
An "expert" can give their opinion, but they have no authority to direct another person how to live their life. The decision to get treated or not get treated, and the exact treatment is ultimately the choice of the patient.

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May 24, 2019, 11:43:39 AM
 #18

Hey

I just wanted to share this study proving something reaaaaaaally horrible. In horrible socialist countries like France... Poor people actually have the same care than the rich.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w24623.pdf

Joke aside, health is a major proof that free market is just market controled by money. Nothing else.

Do you want a society where health is dependant on your wealth?


There is a persistent lie spread saying that nationalizing a market is making it inneficient and stupidly buraucratic.

Well sorry to say but difference between a nationalized market and a free but regulated market is, for health, 50% more costly for USA and extremely inequal system.


Socialism is horrible right?
The only reason that allows some western countries to provide some socialistic policy is that everything is based on a capitalistic economy. And such policy is drowning those countries to shit, especially France.

In 20 century we had a long story of socialistic experiments that took lives of millions of people around the world and still left socialistic countries in poverty.
Maybe socialism let those poor people live in the afterlife, duno.
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May 24, 2019, 01:27:12 PM
 #19

Do the poor people get the absolute best health care modern technology can possibly give, as soon as possible, money no object no matter if it costs $100mm?
I highly doubt it..
I live in Finland, as long if it's possible to provide, and necessary then yes. Also what the hell costs $100mm per person? Nothing.

How necessary?
Is the rich guy allowed to buy products or services that may not meet your definition of necessary?

Like, if an Xray is recommended and will probably do, but the guy also wants a CAT scan and an MRI to be extra sure.. Can he pay extra for that? And also go to another doctor for a 2nd opinion?

You can google Finnish healthcare regulations if you really are interested, but i think you are not.
I'll answer to these and after these you might want to google rest by yourself.
Doctors determine if you need a Cat scan or MRI, not you. If you need 2nd opinion you are entilted to it. And you still aren't satified you can always go to the private sector if you can afford it.
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May 24, 2019, 01:52:26 PM
 #20

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.76.6.661
Socialism doesn't work 7% of the time.

Do the poor people get the absolute best health care modern technology can possibly give, as soon as possible, money no object no matter if it costs $100mm?
I highly doubt it..
I live in Finland, as long if it's possible to provide, and necessary then yes. Also what the hell costs $100mm per person? Nothing.

How necessary?
Is the rich guy allowed to buy products or services that may not meet your definition of necessary?

Like, if an Xray is recommended and will probably do, but the guy also wants a CAT scan and an MRI to be extra sure.. Can he pay extra for that? And also go to another doctor for a 2nd opinion?
Wanting a scan is not how healthcare works.  The experts determine what is needed and get a 2nd opinion if they aren't sure and only recommend what is needed.

By experts you mean employees of the government? So what you are saying is under socialism you don't choose what kind of health care you get, the government does? Sounds wonderful. Tell me, did you eat lots of paint chips as a kid?

With this in mind, how could I ensure this doctor isn't just doing this to save some time and money? Would I be able to go see another doctor shortly, or would it take me another 2 months to get another appointment? I feel like in some ways, with these restrictions on time it's going to make regular people just say 'fuck it' and accept the first doctor's recommendation as correct.

I'm not saying that all doctors are horrible people or something along those lines, I just think that there is a conflict of interest in doctors being paid by the government in which they can be forced to be very very conservative in the tests that they administer -- as they could be bullied into doing less instead of more.




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