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THX 1138
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June 13, 2019, 06:44:00 PM
Last edit: June 14, 2019, 05:53:17 PM by THX 1138
 #121

I'm acting once again as impartial messenger with this latest (now edited) response from Shelby:

Quote from: Shelby


Before anything, someone needs to send Andreas M. Antonopoulos a link to this thread, because he obviously doesn’t understand that Core will be the hard fork, not vice versa:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnC9AhKjws



Firstly, I want to offer an olive branch to @jbreher by recognizing:

1. I appreciate his effort and participation. It’s frustrating to both appreciate someone and simultaneously deal with the propensity of certain snarky words to be later cited by others as evidence of something I am not. This has happened to me many times, even it is not @jbreher’s intention. IOW, I did not impress upon him how his use of certain words and phrases can by no fault of his, end up taking a life of their own because this forum has often become a “he said, she said” clusterfuck in my past experience. IOW, some people will later claim that @jbreher does not respect me and spanked me. Which is why I am not eager to post on this forum. But again I appreciate his effort and participation.

2. Misunderstandings and learning are part of any human process even between intelligent forms of life. I have a thick skin but it did not help me from being banned. So now I am more of stickler about letting people get away with snarky statements about me, because as I said they take on a life of their own. @jbreher may feel his statements were no big deal, factual, appropriate, and constructive dialogue. But that does not guarantee that others will interpret the way he does. I guess it is very difficult for us to write on forums and not have unintentional misunderstandings. We must be very, very meticulous with our wording if we want to avoid misunderstandings. I can understand any person for not being so meticulous and anal about it. Yet the word “absurd” is reasonably overt admonishment. So I don’t know for sure if my reaction was over the top. In any case, I am expressing a conciliatory tone now. That is not to claim that I never had a snarky Freudian slip. I hope most of my sharp-tongued bullets have been reserved for those who lashed out first with such kind words as “nutjob” (@jbreher did not use that word to describe me, which was instead flung by @exatsie and hopefully he will not again … I’m usually willing to forgive, forget, and be friends, unless there’s a pattern of abuse that never improves).

3. To clarify what I tried to convey, but poorly stated in my prior post, I think @jbreher has been trying to assist in promulgating awareness and meritorious analysis of my views and I do not think he was overtly attempting character assassination. I was slightly put off by him making statements which could be (mis?)interpreted as judgmental, callous, and not giving more understanding to my human suffering and commensurate with fully appreciating the effort I am trying to apply to help us search for the truth. IOW, I thought that he appreciated the effort I am putting in to try to help him understand why I think he is being fooled by Craig and to help him not lose moAr BTC value. I felt this is very noble of me and in the spirit of being a true brother and friend, so I was more shocked to read “absurd”. I thought I was sacrificing myself for the benefit of a group of men who are friends. Perhaps I need to recalibrate my expectations and motivations. Essentially I think both of us got sloppy/careless and should try to appear to be more cooperative and less snarky. Also he and I may at times have a different perspective about philosophical priorities. My philosophical stance is not cast in stone yet. I am still trying to figure it out.

4. After re-reading my prior post, I again did not explain my perspective optimally. So readers are to be forgiven for arguing with me and missing some of my points, when my exposition is somewhat discombobulated.

5. My illness has flared up again the past days (after a few good weeks) and it literally discombobulates my mental state to something that is sort of analogous to being very drunk and inability to connect thoughts clearly, and inability to proof-read text. The energy for the brain becomes severely lacking. It is a struggle I can not describe because it does not have an exact analog in the experience of those who haven’t endured this sort of illness. As I said, I should not even try to write here. I am asking for trouble. But I did it because this issue is so critically important for all of us.

6. I have become very exhausted from this discussion, so I find it very arduous to unravel misunderstandings. But I think this discussion is so important. Which is why I making one more post. I am gravely concerned about where the world might be heading. However I want to also keep an open mind and hope that there is a near-term positive outcome for humanity. (See the bottom of this post for some positive thoughts about our plight against statism) Please do not perceive my comments as entirely rigid and closed minded. I remain open to new data and new mental approaches. Sometimes I am so overloaded just to react to what others have written, that I do not make it clear that I am not so rigid in my beliefs as might be perceived.

7. I do not presume I am absolutely correct. As my illness and energy allow, I revisit my perspective again and again, searching for flaws in my prior statements. Sometimes I want to correct some past statements but it is too late. Inertia builds. I have other work to do. Etc..

Here is a clarification of my main points from my prior post:

1. Unforgeable costliness is all the (proof-of-)work that was burned to mine an asset and it is stored as the confidence—amongst the wealth of the hodlers of that the asset— that the asset is a reliable and good store-of-value. The unforgeable costliness is transferred from a physics phenomenon (i.e. cost of work) to a public confidence. Money exists only due to a Schelling point of public confidence (amongst the extant hodlers of the wealth in the said asset, e.g. Bitcoin’s power-law distributed wealth) which can’t be overridden by the nonexistent Schelling points for forgeries (amongst that power-law distributed wealth, disregarding worthless minions who incorrectly think voting is free but who actually do not matter in the economic equation), i.e. confidence that the store-of-value is unforgeable, reliable, fungible, widely accepted, liquid, etc.. Note recently several of my tweets further clarifying my conceptualization of the valuation of PlanB’s stock-to-flow’s model where deleted by PlanB and I was banned from ever commenting on his tweets again:

https://twitter.com/iamnotback/with_replies (archive of the specific posts)

Is PlanB part of some conspiracy to drive more fools into Core before Craig starts the hard fork? Or is just offended by my tweets? Or does he disagree with my logic? Strange.

2. Block size changes, or any protocol changes other than benevolent bug fixes, break unforgeability. Because there is no single, one-and-only choice for the new protocol. And thus all the various protocol choices for forks are “forgeries” and lack the necessary confidence amongst the hodlers the wealth of that asset. All of us admit that all hard forks of Bitcoin have been sold off to buy more moar real Bitcoin. Core delayed the decision of the Bitcoin wealth, with a deception named “soft fork” which eventually becomes a hard fork, free airdrop for the real (aka legacy) Bitcoin wealth hodlers so that the said wealth can vote with its decision about which fork represents the unforgeable costliness. The only Schelling point of confidence which is definitively never a forgery is the immutable, one-and-only original. Thus it is impossible to transfer to a protocol change, the unforgeable costliness that gives an asset its monetary value (by way of the stocks-to-flows model I have cited numerous times in this thread).

3. @jbreher ponders whether Bitcoin never had a 1 MB limit. He and all big blockers must maintain that Satoshi had an adaptive limit and then put the 1 MB hard cap limit there as an afterthought and not as intentionally immutable. But I have explained and argued that any form of adaptive or mutable block size limit is incompatible with both decentralization and unforgeability. So thus there is no question (at least in my mind) that Satoshi had to make the block size immutable. If he didn’t then Bitcoin would have no Schelling point to provide and sustain unforgeability. This game theory seems to be very solid and comprehensible. I have never read a cogent rebuttal to it.

4. Craig correctly argues that governments will apply their power to attempt to force identity onto cryptocurrency transactions. Bitcoin has very weak to non-existent mechanisms for protections of our identities and correlatable activities which are recorded on-chain. Thus Bitcoin as a system is less of a threat to that aspect of government power than a more anonymous altcoin (although it has been shown that Monero is not very anonymous, may be a honey pot, and there really are not any truly effective anonymity altcoins yet, so Craig’s distinction on that point may not be that germane yet).

5. The lack of strong on-chain privacy and anonymity for Bitcoin is less of an issue for most people, because they were going to be kicked off of Bitcoin anyway by higher and higher transaction fees. And the Bitcoin $millionaires who can afford the txn fees, are going to be targeted by capital controls, taxation, etc... So the problem here is that since unforgeable (i.e. the real, immutable, one-and-only) Bitcoin is not going to be a widely used medium-of-exchange (can not scale transaction volume), the $millionaires are not going to have the political support of the masses. Bitcoin will likely become known/viewed by the public via propaganda of statism as a haven for “crime”, “terrorists”, “political manipulators”, “other religions than your own”, and general as something bad that governments must apply the full force of law to attempt to control:

Bitcoin Will Be Politically Vilified And Confiscated

So many high pride fools who think that the rise of hard money is something that will enrich them at the expense of the rest of society. They want to prioritize living somewhere with a Disneyland or other trappings of normal society, and they fail to realize that the rise of hard money only coincidences with the loss of public confidence in society and government. So many fools wasting time on crypto scams that have no chance at all of being relevant to what is coming nor helping to avert it.

And reflect on how gold will also be vilified as a conduit for money laundering of illicit Bitcoins:

Governments tried to stay relevant in my society by buying Bitcoin, which just made the problem worse, by increasing the value of Bitcoin. Governments did so in secret of course, but my generation's "Snowdens" are in fact greedy government employees who transferred Bitcoin to their own private account, and escaped to anarchic places where no questions are asked as long as you can cough up some money.

All of us will be destroyed as I warned in 2010:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article20327.html

For anyone who hasn't yet figured out what's so backwards about the "inflation is good" argument, here's what's so blatantly wrong with this reasoning:

Whether or not someone saves money instead of spending it is in part due to the expectation of future purchasing power, which, roughly speaking, is positively correlated with economic activity, and negatively correlated with money supply. According to the OP's hypothetical, economic activity is slowing faster than the […] money supply is growing, so one would expect their purchasing power to be constantly decreasing. Decreasing purchasing power provides an incentive to purchase consumables, purchase durable goods for future consumption, or purchase durable goods for future trade. Performing any of those actions increases economic activity, and thus will start reversing the trend of decreasing purchasing power. This is a self-stabilizing system, and there's no reason to think that a constant money supply will lead to runaway collapse of an economy.

What you fail to incorporate in your reasoning is the perpetual halvings and doublings of the S/Fs ratio until 2141. Thus as I explained in detail in another blog, the economic activity of the world will not recover until the opportunity cost of mining is lower than those other productive human activities. Economic devastation due to technological unemployment comes first. Most humans have worthless skills in the new technological knowledge age economy with robotics for example replacing human labor.

6. So governments potentially destroying Bitcoin $millionaires is how the global elite possibly prevent competition for wealth as we go through this crazy period of transition from the Industrial Age to the Knowledge Age. Bitcoin will be a de facto global reserve asset. The uber wealthy who can “lawyer-up” and are essentially above-the-law will use Bitcoin as a way to transport and hodl their UNTAXABLE  wealth independent of nations. The rest of us will be subject to UNCONSTITUTIONAL taxes and be dumped back into the crab bucket mentality of collective, political society. Those who are willing to sell their soul to the devil may be able to be accepted into their private club (<--- please click this link).

7. So with BSV Craig offers us the proposition of a forgeable medium-of-exchange which the governments can use to track everyone with, i.e. the 666 system. Nice! Thanks Craig. Fortunately there’s no means of onboarding and adoption for Craig’s shitcoin (because it was not mined from inception and instead is just a forgery, free airdrop of tokens which everyone will sell) and the Bitcoin wealthy are surely not going to sell the unforgeable and buy the forgeable. Actually if you read carefully Craig’s writings, it is clear that he is going to be buying the real Bitcoin and selling the BSV shitcoin to all those fools who do not read carefully what he is writing and have not read my explanations so they can better understand the double-speak he is intentionally using. Craig is giving the fools a choice. It is a test. To determine whether they can think and analyse clearly. Of course he persumably knows he is selling a shitcoin to fools. My understanding of markets (that the majority must always lose the most so the power-law distribution is not violated) that is what he is supposed to do. He is a market marker for the greater fools. My theory is that he is fulfilling the role he was assigned by the global elite.

And no Bitcoin can not be the same 666 because once again I will repeat that with the 1 MB immutable block size, then it can not become a widespread medium-of-exchange. See all the factors of the analysis must be holistically assimilated. @hv_ if you are mixed up, maybe you are not assimilating?

8. Adding anonymity features to a cryptocurrency might increase the likelihood that miners are eventually targeted by governments, but it might actually decrease it (c.f. below). However, China (and soon India) has banned Bitcoin mining. Many governments may end up trying to ban Bitcoin mining as well. But mining will always continue regardless even if as necessary surreptitiously because it is profitable, e.g. there is no way to detect someone mining in their home. I do not agree with his claim that exchanges (between cryptocurrencies) can not be fully decentralized. We just need cryptocurrencies to implement cross-chain atomic transactions protocols which I helped to perfect. So I am not entirely convinced of Craig’s argument about law. We are headed into a transition of the global economy away from Industrialization towards knowledge work over the Internet and nation-states will lose some of their relevance. Thus a global, private, anonymous medium-of-exchange might just disintermediate the governments. We’ll see. As I wrote before, research continues…

Quote from: Craig
Once you allow terrorist funding, you can start targeting miners. Once you allow for a system that is designed to become more anonymous and bypass the controls that were developed when I built Bitcoin, you create a system that is open to jurisdictional capture. A court can order a miner to freeze a transaction. If the miner does not listen to the court, its assets can be seized. The seizure of criminal assets is possible across jurisdictions in the case of money laundering.

One could argue that making transactions non-anonymous increases the likelihood that governments will have an incentive to require miners to censor certain UTXO and transactions. Craig’s logic here is not a slam dunk.

Quote from: Craig
Proceeds of crime rules allow miners who knowingly act to validate a transaction from an unknown illicit address to become targets themselves.

He is arguing against himself. Lol. Because a miner of a cryptocurrency that has anonymity will never “knowingly…” because they are prevented from knowing by the anonymity.

Quote from: Craig
I would like to add a big thank you to Mr Antonopoulos who is helping ensure that all of the illegitimate and useless cryptocurrencies such as Monero and Core coin (BTC) are made illegal. With their blatantly erroneous statements about decentralised exchanges, Lightning, and other systems designed to breach anti-money laundering laws and facilitate crime, such individuals are helping ensure that you will wake up one day and find BTC, Monero, and Zcash to be illegal criminal assets and the mere possession to be a crime.

Craig welcome to reality. Cryptocurrency is going to be vilified regardless of whether there is anonymity. Cryptocurrency is a technological, economic evolution phenomenon that no one can stop. It is going to happen regardless of anything Craig and/or governments do.

Quote from: Craig
If it wasn’t for people like him, my job and getting law enforcement to understand such kinds of the blockchain would be much harder. I guess it is necessary for those seeking justice, law, and order to have criminals on the other side to make the case. It’s very helpful that they’re so incredibly incompetent when promoting crime.

And the thing is that the criminals will be able to figure out how to use Bitcoin (including any of its forks) entirely untraceable by chain analysis, whilst the rest of us will not. So all that effort of governments to stop “crime” is bullshit when in fact the government and those who buy off the government are the criminals.

So Craig’s feigned altruism is bullshit and vacuous.

Cryptocurrency has arrived as a phenomenon which will shake-up the foundations of human civilization to the core. This is an earthquake that never stops and only grows more violent and disruptive (and in creative destruction and constructive disintermediation) over time.



Italy's Deputy Prime Minister has proposed a plan to "tax" money and valuables held by citizens in their private safety deposit boxes.

Don't be surprised if more people around the world start looking for a non-censorable, non-seizable asset to store their wealth in. 🔥

https://twitter.com/apompliano/status/1138803120119648258?s=21

Lol

As a fellow Italian I suggest you an alternative way of looking at that.
They are desperate.
Nobody in her right mind would voluntarily open her own security safe box just to be taxed.
So? How does it works?
If I work on the illegal economy, or simply I never paid my taxes I have a LOT of cash I store there.
If I want to “clean it” I can take it off, being taxed on it (15%-20%) and deposit in the bank.
State money laundering, at a very competitive rate I also would add.

gawds i love good spin

+1 WOsMerit

Thanks for some education about Europe.

Jurisdictional arbitrage of this form (between just hodling whilst their socialist, clusterfucked kleptocracies collapse or declaring assets if they offer a good enough deal) is a plausible reason to be more optimistic.

This can be another interpretation of what is meant by positing that Bitcoin is here to enable the wealthy to perserve their wealth through the chaos coming to the world, not as a (especially if forgeable) medium-of-exchange.

And there are apparently a lot of Italian descendants in Argentina. And I might even become one of them.



You definitely cannot create the accumulated Proof Of Work of Bitcoin within your basement, nobody can, which is why Bitcoin has value.

Fine example of the dipshit scammer slogans you see plastered over Reddit all day.  The kind of bumper sticker slogan lies Andreas Antonopolous pushes.  Proof of work DOES NOT CREATE value.  It's sunk cost fallacy.  Jesus Christ, reading this continuous stream of mindless shit from you is too much.  This accumulated sunk cost fallacy also has ZERO bearing on future security.
It preserves value.

You are getting annoying. It's not like you don't know how it works.

Sunk cost fallacy does not "preserve" value.  Sunk cost fallacy by definition has NO BEARING on future value.  For example, if the Chicom miners band together and collude with their 70% hash power or whatever they have (I know it's at least 60% but probably higher), if you're on the minority fork with 30% or less, how has the current or past hash power "preserved" your value?  It hasn't.  You're now on a minority fork that might wither away and die off.  

Yea, you still have your Jihan Wu tokens on the majority fork, but maybe the tokens on that fork don't even have anything to do with the Bitcoin of yesterday at all and are instead Chinese social credit score tokens with built-in chain anchor.  Where is this so called "immutable" bullshit ledger again?  It doesn't exist.  Your chain can just be nullified by becoming an unsupported minority fork that dies. There is no Nash equilibrium in bitcoin. Arguably, no change would ever take place in the software if there was since there's no such thing as inherently 'good' code that can't have some hidden repurposed motives to it.

Read my prior post in this thread. Bitcoin mining is ostensibly becoming more decentralized, not more centralized, at least until some singularity is reached wherein the minted coinbase reward (aka the flow of new stock) becomes too small. I will be blogging about my thoughts about that eventual singularity, but it is a decade or decades from now, but not later then 2141.

Sunk costs are not what provides value to Bitcoin in the stocks-to-flows valuation model. The mining cost of the new annual flow provides the baseline for valuation of all the above ground stock. (<--- click that link for more detailed explanation). I explained in this post that the sunk costs is transferred to the Schelling point of public confidence. Read this post and my prior one carefully.

There’s no Schelling point for the Bitcoin wealth to sell the immutable protocol and buy any fork. So the only Schelling point is to sell all the forks and buy the one-and-only, real, immutable Bitcoin with the proceeds.

So you are entirely incorrect about Schelling points and numerous forks. The forks have no (lasting) value thus they are irrelevant.

And you are also incorrect if you think Bitcoin is not physical. The physical mass of Bitcoin is all the mining equipment out there. It just so happens that unlike gold, the mass is detached and only tethered virtually, which gives Bitcoin utility that gold does not have.

You sold Bitcoin at $600. Lol. Announce it to the world. Refuse to buy back into Bitcoin at every chance you have been given to rectify your mistake. Ditto some guys in this thread who perhaps will not be wise enough to sell BSV when the greater fools rush in. Because they refuse to acknowledge reality.

I have explained this all very clearly now. There is no excuse.

.

.

I debunk the incorrect belief that gold is physical (aka tangible) and Bitcoin is not. They are both physical. Bitcoin’s physical mass is not tethered to the ability to transport the value. So Bitcoin has all of gold’s properties, plus we do not need to use fractional reserve receipts, because the physical mass (the mining hardware) stays in the “vault” whilst the value can be transferred cryptographically. Amazing!

Indeed no one can predict all the potential outcomes w.r.t. Bitcoin. But the problem with gold is that government has an asymmetrical advantage because gold has to be physically transported. Thus the government and thieves can physically take it from me if I need to move between countries. Look for example at Armstrong’s current reopened (“new”) court case. Apparently someone stole his rare coins while he was unjustly imprisoned. Gold is an albatross around my neck (which I painstakingly learned by getting burned after shipping my precious metals to the Philippines). It limits my freedom to react to different situations that might arise. So it is actually the antithesis of diversification. A little bit of gold yeah maybe, especially given that as of Basel-III European banks will have an incentive to increase their gold reserves. But exceedingly large hodlings of gold diverge from diversification. We’re a sitting duck in that case with the gold albatross around our neck.

Again I also refer readers to @fillippone’s point and my reaction to it in this post. That to perserve our wealth through what is coming we may need to just hodl BTC for decade(s) until the governments become so bankrupted and desperate that they agree to legitimize our wealth. We have to squeeze those criminals until they acquiesce.

If you have a way to transport gold without actually transporting it which does not involve a trusted party, I would appreciate if you would share with me how to accomplish it. Bitcoin is trustless. I do not need to trust anyone in order to store my Bitcoin and transport it.

Yes I know you are very conservative and unwilling to accept that (the real not the fake) Bitcoin is a ~2000 – 3000 year monetary cycle event that radically changes the old order of money. That is what I believe based on the facts that I am aware of. Even the Bible says we will throw our gold into the streets. Gold was not even money at the inception of human civilization. Gold is not some permanent form of money.

Humility is a multifarious phenomena. Is it humble for you to assume that gold is forever money and nothing could possible replace it overnight? I look at the model that explains why Bitcoin can rise in value so quickly and I understand. I have not yet seen you correctly refute that model.

The only significant uncertainty facet I am willing to grant (in comparison to gold) is that is is unclear what happens to Bitcoin when the aforementioned model’s S/Fs ratio and market cap far exceeds that of gold. But that will not be the case until Bitcoin is over $1 million. So why would I trade a currently $10k asset that is going to $1 million in the next ~8 years or less, for a currently $1300 asset that is going to maybe ~$5000 in that time frame.

Diversification must factor in adjusted for risk versus reward, and risk of loss as well as gain. With gold I have a huge risk of it entirely being stolen, stuck in some legal jurisdiction where I can not liquidate it, and other risks because it is not digital. So huge risk of loss and not very much upside. Whereas with Bitcoin, there is a very high probability of huge upside and very low risk of loss if I am careful about my opsec (which is entirely in my control, and trustless). Bitcoin is about self-responsibility. Gold is more of fiat instrument because it depends on trust for storage and/or for liquidity. Bitcoin is sovereign, gold is not so anymore. For example, gold forces me to come face-to-face with a buyer or seller, unless I rely on trusted 3rd parties. In the scenarios where I need gold to perform, it could be very dangerous to even transact in gold. Whereas with Bitcoin I can transact digitally and no need to come face-to-face not rely on trusted parties.

Yeah I might have some dozens of gold coins just in case. But I am not going to put $millions into gold (presuming I own at least 1 BTC now and the expected future price). Sorry that would be a huge albatross around my neck.

For astute diversification, I would probably choose to have enough gold coins to support my simple life and daily expenses. Gold that I can reliably carry with me where I need to go (or copies of that small hoard in each country where I might reside). Any Bitcoin we hodl is God’s money, not for me personally but for me to use for God’s objectives. Gold will be less effective for that and thus I think by the Parable of the Talents I am to put more in Bitcoin otherwise the talents will be taken from me and given to someone who will.

What good is it for me 20 years ago to have buried gold at different places in the world? It is entirely useless if I can not get my hands on it when I need to direct it to accomplishing good. We are still digging up buried hoards from the Dark Ages.

The Core address 3s are not Bitcoin. That is just fundamental. Bitcoin has no value whatsoever if any development group can “soft fork” it.

The ability to discern good ideas from bad ones is essential to wealth generation. The fallacy of diversification is that any person could generate wealth without any expertise or maximum division-of-labor, which would be equivalent to the fallacy of egalitarianism and Marxism.





If the chinese colluded to do such a change, they would end up with an useless token and those smart would see the opportunity to mine Bitcoin at a discount while the scammers burn money on their pretend Bitcoin, before the difficulty picks up traction again.

No, that is not how the world works such as how people like Bitcoin core erroneously state that only "nodes" or "users" matter and not miners.  Miners determine the fate of Bitcoin because without miners you have no chain security. Yes, you can choose to boycott the majority fork...and then be attacked by them.  Then you get to open the can of worms of being forced to change algo.  Regardless, since Bitcoin has no Nash equilibrium, no Schelling point, and mining and transaction validators are all designed to centralize, it's nothing more than a corrupt political power vacuum like you would see in a senate.

Miners need transactions to happen in order to stay solvent, and nobody would use inflationcoin. Also, literally all whales (except miners that are part of the attack, assuming they don't back-peddle) would dump their share on the attackers chain, collapsing the price, thus collapsing the hashrate, and forcing miners to come back to the original chain or go out of business.

Nobody said anything about inflation.  You erroneously claimed "21 million coins" constitutes a Schelling point for Bitcoin.  You're making shit up on the fly.  You can have infinite different forks all with a 21 million coin count.  There is no Schelling point in shitcoins.  Stop constantly lying.  It's also 100% guaranteed for Bitcoin to be co-opted by the state since transaction validators are designed to centralize, not that the state wasn't involved in it's creation in the first place.

There is no Schelling point to sell the one-and-only, immutable Bitcoin. Forks are worthless if everybody sells their free airdrop tokens on the forks and buys moar of the one-and-only, immutable Bitcoin with the proceeds.

Miners have no power to change the protocol. Period.

I explained that already upthread. Even the miners who will force Core to stop its “soft fork” deception and hard fork off, will not have any power to change the immutable protocol. They will be merely restoring the Nash Equilibrium by taking as donations the massive, generous SegWit (aka Core) UTXO addresses booty. Then the Nash Equilibrium will be restored and Core will fuck off and die. And the real, immutable Bitcoin will chug along to $1 million per BTC before 2028. Whilst your gold will go to at most $5000ish.

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June 15, 2019, 02:54:30 PM
 #122

I guess the only thing I want to reply to is point 2 about centralization. Yes, megagigaterapetablocks will likely result in fewer fully-validating, non-mining entities. It will also likely result in fewer full-stack mining entities. So what?

People keep talking about decentralization as if it is an end in itself. Why? AFAIC, as long as there are no structural barriers to entry by new participants, the network is as decentralized as it need be. If there is no discernible marginal benefit from adding one more participant to the network, then by definition further decentralization is of no benefit.

And quite frankly, all public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

Not to mention the fact that non-mining nodes provide zero benefit to the network anyhow. If you have sufficient economic interest to be a first-class tx creator, then fine. Pony up for a validating client. But don't delude yourself that your participation brings any benefit to anyone but yourself.

By having megagigaterapetablocks you are giving full control of blockchain audit to the "operators". I guess the only way some people would understand why centralization is bad is when forces collude to censor certain transactions, such as donating to Wikileaks or anything else that wouldn't comply with what they consider a morally correct transaction.

All public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

A blockchain is not public if it cannot be audited, and that is the dead end of BSV if it ever go to be used at scale. Just because you can see the transactions on some website, it doesn't mean anything in terms of how valid the data being shown is and thus it's private.

There's no incentive for miners to screw up Bitcoin as they have the most skin in the game along with the mega-whales.
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June 15, 2019, 07:07:47 PM
 #123

I guess the only thing I want to reply to is point 2 about centralization. Yes, megagigaterapetablocks will likely result in fewer fully-validating, non-mining entities. It will also likely result in fewer full-stack mining entities. So what?

People keep talking about decentralization as if it is an end in itself. Why? AFAIC, as long as there are no structural barriers to entry by new participants, the network is as decentralized as it need be. If there is no discernible marginal benefit from adding one more participant to the network, then by definition further decentralization is of no benefit.

And quite frankly, all public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

Not to mention the fact that non-mining nodes provide zero benefit to the network anyhow. If you have sufficient economic interest to be a first-class tx creator, then fine. Pony up for a validating client. But don't delude yourself that your participation brings any benefit to anyone but yourself.

By having megagigaterapetablocks you are giving full control of blockchain audit to the "operators". I guess the only way some people would understand why centralization is bad is when forces collude to censor certain transactions, such as donating to Wikileaks or anything else that wouldn't comply with what they consider a morally correct transaction.

All public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

A blockchain is not public if it cannot be audited, and that is the dead end of BSV if it ever go to be used at scale. Just because you can see the transactions on some website, it doesn't mean anything in terms of how valid the data being shown is and thus it's private.

Anyone who cares to invest the requisite time, talent, and treasure is free to audit the blockchain. In SV as it is in BTC.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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June 15, 2019, 08:09:43 PM
 #124

https://news.bitcoin.com/theymos-bitcoins-satoshi-destroyed/

He is sure and full of fear it will happen.

Bye btc

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June 15, 2019, 09:21:50 PM
 #125

Here is a good article about the immutable protocol, Satoshi's coins, CSW and Paul Le Roux:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/i-m-a-former-green-beret-here-s-how-i-would-bring-down-bitcoin-1456165726
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June 16, 2019, 02:15:58 AM
 #126

I guess the only thing I want to reply to is point 2 about centralization. Yes, megagigaterapetablocks will likely result in fewer fully-validating, non-mining entities. It will also likely result in fewer full-stack mining entities. So what?

People keep talking about decentralization as if it is an end in itself. Why? AFAIC, as long as there are no structural barriers to entry by new participants, the network is as decentralized as it need be. If there is no discernible marginal benefit from adding one more participant to the network, then by definition further decentralization is of no benefit.

And quite frankly, all public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

Not to mention the fact that non-mining nodes provide zero benefit to the network anyhow. If you have sufficient economic interest to be a first-class tx creator, then fine. Pony up for a validating client. But don't delude yourself that your participation brings any benefit to anyone but yourself.

By having megagigaterapetablocks you are giving full control of blockchain audit to the "operators". I guess the only way some people would understand why centralization is bad is when forces collude to censor certain transactions, such as donating to Wikileaks or anything else that wouldn't comply with what they consider a morally correct transaction.

All public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

A blockchain is not public if it cannot be audited, and that is the dead end of BSV if it ever go to be used at scale. Just because you can see the transactions on some website, it doesn't mean anything in terms of how valid the data being shown is and thus it's private.

Anyone who cares to invest the requisite time, talent, and treasure is free to audit the blockchain. In SV as it is in BTC.


Auditing means running a full node, validating the entire blockchain and confirming that everything checks in within the rest of the network, something you can't do on centralized, running-at-scale-on-chain approaches like SV or any other altcoin for that matter, since the entry point to do so is basically be an NSA datacenter.
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June 16, 2019, 03:43:33 AM
 #127

I guess the only thing I want to reply to is point 2 about centralization. Yes, megagigaterapetablocks will likely result in fewer fully-validating, non-mining entities. It will also likely result in fewer full-stack mining entities. So what?

People keep talking about decentralization as if it is an end in itself. Why? AFAIC, as long as there are no structural barriers to entry by new participants, the network is as decentralized as it need be. If there is no discernible marginal benefit from adding one more participant to the network, then by definition further decentralization is of no benefit.

And quite frankly, all public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

Not to mention the fact that non-mining nodes provide zero benefit to the network anyhow. If you have sufficient economic interest to be a first-class tx creator, then fine. Pony up for a validating client. But don't delude yourself that your participation brings any benefit to anyone but yourself.

By having megagigaterapetablocks you are giving full control of blockchain audit to the "operators". I guess the only way some people would understand why centralization is bad is when forces collude to censor certain transactions, such as donating to Wikileaks or anything else that wouldn't comply with what they consider a morally correct transaction.

All public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

A blockchain is not public if it cannot be audited, and that is the dead end of BSV if it ever go to be used at scale. Just because you can see the transactions on some website, it doesn't mean anything in terms of how valid the data being shown is and thus it's private.

Anyone who cares to invest the requisite time, talent, and treasure is free to audit the blockchain. In SV as it is in BTC.


Auditing means running a full node,

Okaaayy....

Quote
validating the entire blockchain and confirming that everything checks in within the rest of the network, something you can't do on centralized, running-at-scale-on-chain approaches

Ok, so what's your point?

Quote
like SV

Oh I see - you're deluded. Carry on.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

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June 16, 2019, 02:07:59 PM
 #128

I guess the only thing I want to reply to is point 2 about centralization. Yes, megagigaterapetablocks will likely result in fewer fully-validating, non-mining entities. It will also likely result in fewer full-stack mining entities. So what?

People keep talking about decentralization as if it is an end in itself. Why? AFAIC, as long as there are no structural barriers to entry by new participants, the network is as decentralized as it need be. If there is no discernible marginal benefit from adding one more participant to the network, then by definition further decentralization is of no benefit.

And quite frankly, all public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

Not to mention the fact that non-mining nodes provide zero benefit to the network anyhow. If you have sufficient economic interest to be a first-class tx creator, then fine. Pony up for a validating client. But don't delude yourself that your participation brings any benefit to anyone but yourself.

By having megagigaterapetablocks you are giving full control of blockchain audit to the "operators". I guess the only way some people would understand why centralization is bad is when forces collude to censor certain transactions, such as donating to Wikileaks or anything else that wouldn't comply with what they consider a morally correct transaction.

All public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

A blockchain is not public if it cannot be audited, and that is the dead end of BSV if it ever go to be used at scale. Just because you can see the transactions on some website, it doesn't mean anything in terms of how valid the data being shown is and thus it's private.

Anyone who cares to invest the requisite time, talent, and treasure is free to audit the blockchain. In SV as it is in BTC.


Auditing means running a full node,

Okaaayy....

Quote
validating the entire blockchain and confirming that everything checks in within the rest of the network, something you can't do on centralized, running-at-scale-on-chain approaches

Ok, so what's your point?

Quote
like SV

Oh I see - you're deluded. Carry on.

My point is that you are bagholding an altcoin (BSV) from the look of your posts, and you are not understand the game theory at play when it comes to what makes Bitcoin valuable on the first place.

A Bitcoin which is ran on datacenters on both the auditing and mining part is basically fiat. At that point if there were no alternatives, you could just keep using fiat (which is already digital) and use gold as store of value.
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June 16, 2019, 02:53:08 PM
 #129

I guess the only thing I want to reply to is point 2 about centralization. Yes, megagigaterapetablocks will likely result in fewer fully-validating, non-mining entities. It will also likely result in fewer full-stack mining entities. So what?

People keep talking about decentralization as if it is an end in itself. Why? AFAIC, as long as there are no structural barriers to entry by new participants, the network is as decentralized as it need be. If there is no discernible marginal benefit from adding one more participant to the network, then by definition further decentralization is of no benefit.

And quite frankly, all public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

Not to mention the fact that non-mining nodes provide zero benefit to the network anyhow. If you have sufficient economic interest to be a first-class tx creator, then fine. Pony up for a validating client. But don't delude yourself that your participation brings any benefit to anyone but yourself.

By having megagigaterapetablocks you are giving full control of blockchain audit to the "operators". I guess the only way some people would understand why centralization is bad is when forces collude to censor certain transactions, such as donating to Wikileaks or anything else that wouldn't comply with what they consider a morally correct transaction.

All public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

A blockchain is not public if it cannot be audited, and that is the dead end of BSV if it ever go to be used at scale. Just because you can see the transactions on some website, it doesn't mean anything in terms of how valid the data being shown is and thus it's private.

Anyone who cares to invest the requisite time, talent, and treasure is free to audit the blockchain. In SV as it is in BTC.


Auditing means running a full node,

Okaaayy....

Quote
validating the entire blockchain and confirming that everything checks in within the rest of the network, something you can't do on centralized, running-at-scale-on-chain approaches

Ok, so what's your point?

Quote
like SV

Oh I see - you're deluded. Carry on.

My point is that you are bagholding an altcoin (BSV) from the look of your posts, and you are not understand the game theory at play when it comes to what makes Bitcoin valuable on the first place.

A Bitcoin which is ran on datacenters on both the auditing and mining part is basically fiat. At that point if there were no alternatives, you could just keep using fiat (which is already digital) and use gold as store of value.


A bitcoin where core devs and PoSM tells u what to change in the protocol and MUST sell u new 'features' not needed for Bitcoin is fiat . More than a stable protocol where all new features are on the app layer.

Sigh

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June 16, 2019, 03:06:28 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #130

In a market perspective, the consequences of such stealing of Segwit outputs would be like what happened to the ethereum blockchain. Ethereum forked after the DAO hack, rolling back and thus, having the shortest blockchain at that point. The original one (that is, the one retaining the original chain after the DAO hack) was hence called "ethereum classic". However, both investors and miners flocked to the forked chain, and it gained more hashrate, surpassing the classic chain both in value and power. It also retained its original name.

So, what would happen, in a market perspective, is that both chains would start with the same value, but the one forked by Core (technically, Core would have to rollback, to reverse the stealing of Segwit outputs, thus forking like ethereum did) would receive more value, even if dont go straight to a PoS model at first.

We need to weigh down human behaviour on this event. Investors dont have a clue about immutability in the protocol, they dont even know how the protocol works, so they would mistrust the miners, and in such a way that it would put the PoW model into question. It could even affect the altcoin market, with several coins switching to a PoS model. Notice that, right now, ethereum is going to a hybrid between PoS and PoW, and this give a clue of what would happen to bitcoin in case of this attack.

The PoS model would also attract institutional money. Banks gained power through stacking in the debt-based fiat system. They dont like bitcoin because they dont have more power than the miners over it. The miners would lose their power if they steal the Segwit outputs, and ultimately, the theft would be reversed, like it happened with ethereum. So, I believe this wont happen at all, unless the miners want to consciously end their business. If the electrical companies benefit from mining, I dont see why this should happen.

But in case it happens, it would be better to have most of your output in legacy addresses, as this would maximize the airdrop. People who only hold in Segwit adresses would not receive coins from the miners chain, as their coins would be the ones stolen on that chain.

You just have described the Schelling point case for legacy addresses as the be-all-end-all place to be when it comes to perma-hodling relevant amounts of money. Why would one not be exposed to giveaway forkcoins when you can be sitting on legacy addresses and receive them at no cost? (well, cost being, moving the coins properly to get the forkcoins which is a massive pain in the ass in itself but you would get nothing sitting on non-legacy addresses.
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June 16, 2019, 03:31:47 PM
 #131

I guess the only thing I want to reply to is point 2 about centralization. Yes, megagigaterapetablocks will likely result in fewer fully-validating, non-mining entities. It will also likely result in fewer full-stack mining entities. So what?

People keep talking about decentralization as if it is an end in itself. Why? AFAIC, as long as there are no structural barriers to entry by new participants, the network is as decentralized as it need be. If there is no discernible marginal benefit from adding one more participant to the network, then by definition further decentralization is of no benefit.

And quite frankly, all public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

Not to mention the fact that non-mining nodes provide zero benefit to the network anyhow. If you have sufficient economic interest to be a first-class tx creator, then fine. Pony up for a validating client. But don't delude yourself that your participation brings any benefit to anyone but yourself.

By having megagigaterapetablocks you are giving full control of blockchain audit to the "operators". I guess the only way some people would understand why centralization is bad is when forces collude to censor certain transactions, such as donating to Wikileaks or anything else that wouldn't comply with what they consider a morally correct transaction.

All public blockchains -- to the extent that said blockchain is economically significant -- will centralize thusly - at least with respect to mining. How many parties make up 51% of BTC hashpower? Four. Already.

A blockchain is not public if it cannot be audited, and that is the dead end of BSV if it ever go to be used at scale. Just because you can see the transactions on some website, it doesn't mean anything in terms of how valid the data being shown is and thus it's private.

Anyone who cares to invest the requisite time, talent, and treasure is free to audit the blockchain. In SV as it is in BTC.


Auditing means running a full node,

Okaaayy....

Quote
validating the entire blockchain and confirming that everything checks in within the rest of the network, something you can't do on centralized, running-at-scale-on-chain approaches

Ok, so what's your point?

Quote
like SV

Oh I see - you're deluded. Carry on.

My point is that you are bagholding an altcoin (BSV) from the look of your posts, and you are not understand the game theory at play when it comes to what makes Bitcoin valuable on the first place.

A Bitcoin which is ran on datacenters on both the auditing and mining part is basically fiat.

Not if there are multiple competing entities at each of these roles.

Let me tell you a parable:

Once in the early days of cryptocurrency, there was a person. This person was a principal in a mining collective. A mining collective that at one point was one of the largest holders of hashpower on the planet. This mining collective went through several technologies leading the pack in H/W efficiency. This effort was very profitable. Yet this effort was a huge PITA.  Hence, every block win, all the principals whined all the way to the bank. Eventually, some of the principals decided the PITA factor was not worth the effort. So they decided to get out of mining. They offered to sell the entire system to the other principals. Those other principals debated ROI, colocation services, expected technology node upgrades, power distribution, geographical location, possible competition, etc. And decided that they had had enough as well.

The mining entity shut down.

Some time later, a cabal of economic ignoramuses (albeit quite talented as coders) somehow wrested control of the hearts and minds of the Bitcoin faithful. These economic ignoramuses foisted a negative and potentially fatal change upon the Bitcoin protocol. There was a short battle held over the adoption of this flaw.

Our protagonist, who had been a principal in the mining collective, was aware of the negative aspects of this protocol change. He wished to fight against this abomination. Having divested himself of mining power, however, he was absolutely powerless to do anything about the situation.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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June 16, 2019, 03:38:44 PM
 #132

LoL 7 pages of talk about an idiotic guy that says something..... (keep on thinking its the guy claimed to be Satoshi) Roll Eyes

Close thread never look back, by CSW!

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June 17, 2019, 08:49:31 AM
 #133

Relaying a summary post.

Quote from: Shelby


LoL 7 pages of talk about an idiotic guy that says something..... (keep on thinking its the guy claimed to be Satoshi) Roll Eyes

Close thread never look back, by CSW!

You may end up eating your hat.

Dammit I did not want to reply to this thread again. But you essentially incorrectly summarized the thread and will cause new readers to think that there is not something much more important discussed in this thread than Craig Wright.

My posts in this thread have explained why Core BitcOn is a fake/forgery. And that there will eventually be huge donations of more than half of all the BTC from those who hold the Core fork of Bitcoin back to those miners who will mine Satoshi’s original, immutable, one-and-only actual Bitcoin. This “real Bitcoin” is not BSV nor BCH. It is the Bitcoin that never stopped and will never stop being the one-and-only Bitcoin. It is the Bitcoin with 1 MB blocks.



Also I am replying because I tried via private messages to get @jbreher and @pereira4 to clarify their debate, but apparently they’re unwilling to do so.

Essentially I believe the point @pereira4 is trying to make is that if the block sizes become too gargantuan then there is some size at which offline user clients would be unable to validate the blockchain because their computational power could not keep up with the rate at which new transactions are added to blocks. Each full node client (even if offline) has to validate every transaction in every block. That is what makes proof-of-work trustless, unlike proof-of-stake which is proof-of-nothing because due to the nothing-at-stake problem, validating clients had to actually be online always to know whether a blockchain was the “longest” chain.

I have not done the computations to determine what size of block would meet @pereira4’s presume criticism. That is not the main criticism against BSV.




My point is that you are bagholding an altcoin (BSV) from the look of your posts, and you are not understand the game theory at play when it comes to what makes Bitcoin valuable on the first place.

A Bitcoin which is ran on datacenters on both the auditing and mining part is basically fiat.

Not if there are multiple competing entities at each of these roles.

Sorry friend but you are provably incorrect.

Let me tell you a parable:

[…]

Our protagonist, who had been a principal in the mining collective, was aware of the negative aspects of this protocol change. He wished to fight against this abomination. Having divested himself of mining power, however, he was absolutely powerless to do anything about the situation.

Our protagonist Craig Wright (a scammer[1]) has attempted to modify the protocol of Bitcoin, converting it into a fiat with centrally controlled block sizes. Any reply you make has already been discussed upthread. You’ll just be beating a dead horse as there are no new arguments that can be made.

Anyway, you will learn your lesson the hard way, by losing your BTC. Enjoy.

Q.E.D.



[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/9sexx0/craig_wright_actually_did_completely_original/
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/06/15/craig-wright-sees-motion-to-compel-him-to-reveal-his-bitcoin-holdings-granted/

Here follows a recent quote from the Trilema.com dude who claims to have 0.5 million BTC:

Quote
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-11#1917889
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/06/uk-wankers-imagineer-power-to-force-customer-due-diligence-into-bitcoin-client-software/ << Qntra -- UK Wankers Imagineer Power To Force "Customer Due Diligence" Into Bitcoin Client Software
mircea_popescu: i betcha the retards wil lactually do it.
BingoBoingo: Well, they have quite the gerontocracy
asciilifeform: anyone still recall the 1990s-era 'reich pgp' where castrated key bitness ?
mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: by "the retards" i meant whatever's currently left holding the power ranger flag
mircea_popescu: there should be a short story about this, 1988 soviets don't spontaneously combust, but instead invade. find a mexican dude in all of new york
mircea_popescu: "are you the americans ?" "BY JOE I IS!"
BingoBoingo: Apparently they added another XY old woman to the "maintainer" team
asciilifeform hasn't looked at prb in years, wouldn't at this point be surprised by anything at all
mircea_popescu: kinda same here.
mircea_popescu: sorta "unity"/"ubuntu"/whatever intellectual-abandonware.
mircea_popescu: "america"

intellectual-abandonware!

The Trilema.com folks just hate the fact the idiots in collectivism always make the wrong decisions. The “power rangers” are Core/Blockstream and their fake BitcOn Core.

They do not care if these idiots and all their followers (which also includes all the idiots who think they have a vote in democracy) perish. Because they see that all the trouble they create.

Although I agree with the problem, I do not agree with their eugenics/genocide solution, because the power-law concentration is a “nobody left standing” phenomenon if not counteracted by the breakdown of order in nature.

My goal for a solution is to find technological means to enforce decentralization.

P.S. Someone should post that in the Long-term advance notice thread to remind them that the Trilema.com dude is still preparing to join in the destruction of Core BitcOn.

Readers for your edification about reality:

http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/

http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-piss-me-the-fuck-off-a-guide/

http://trilema.com/2016/to-the-dao-and-the-ethereum-community-fuck-you/

http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/

http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/


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June 24, 2019, 01:13:13 PM
Last edit: August 03, 2019, 07:34:29 AM by Traxo
 #134

Follow up:  

https://medium.com/@shelby_78386/change-to-a-diversity-of-beliefs-thus-not-a-schelling-point-21eddc03bdc1

Also see The rogue wave topic:  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5157964.0


Quote from: Shelby
I explained in a post upthread that CSW is providing advance notice of the SegWit donations taking which will destroy the Core BitcOn altcoin/shitcoin probably at the May 2020 halving event:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5147618.msg51306669#msg51306669

CSW has recently clarified that this is indeed the plan:

http://web.archive.org/web/20190720165108/https:/twitter.com/riverish333/status/1152575517176020993

So he clearly is planning to dump the BTC ticker (aka BitcOn Core). But what he is not telling you is that his group (or backers, which are probably the global elite) will be hodling the legacy Bitcoin (aka the immutable Satoshi “v0.1” Bitcoin). Again do read the linked Rogue Wave thread for more information.

Note where CSW states the BTC he will dump is less than 5% of the outstanding token supply, he is arguing that he is in legal compliance and thus not manipulating markets. Also he has provided advance public notice.



Quote from: Update from Shelby
Craig Wright (CSW) has also confirmed my aforementioned expectation of selling Core BTC for Tether and other USD pegged assets:

http://web.archive.org/web/20190802201319/https://twitter.com/riverish333/status/1157272246890745856

So the SegWit donations taking restoration of legacy Bitcoin (and the attempted destruction of the forgery known as Bitcoin Core) is now entirely confirmed for the Bitcoin halving event in May 2020.


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August 20, 2019, 04:12:08 AM
 #135

Quote
Craig Wright has attempted to modify the protocol of Bitcoin, converting it into a fiat with centrally controlled block sizes.

Wow.   Try the opposite of this.

Restore original protocol
Blocksize decided by nobody but what the block-finding node is willing to risk


Although it isn't accurate to say "Craig Wright is doing it".  Plenty of people are "doing it", if Craig wasn't around there are many others who understand the real power of bitcoins, and all the things BTC did to remove that power.    Cool
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August 20, 2019, 06:53:45 AM
 #136

Quote
Craig Wright has attempted to modify the protocol of Bitcoin, converting it into a fiat with centrally controlled block sizes.

Wow.   Try the opposite of this.

Restore original protocol
Blocksize decided by nobody but what the block-finding node is willing to risk


Although it isn't accurate to say "Craig Wright is doing it".  Plenty of people are "doing it", if Craig wasn't around there are many others who understand the real power of bitcoins, and all the things BTC did to remove that power.    Cool

There are a lot 'protocol minimalists'  out there Wink

Good protocols gettting a KISS from anyone who needs to code against it or analyse all the risks related to it

Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
Fix real world issues: Check out b-vote.com
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boomboom
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August 20, 2019, 07:45:28 AM
 #137

This 2018 post will be entertaining when it happens.

Capital C for capitalism. BitCoin.

Is the plan that this all starts happening in January 2020?
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August 20, 2019, 08:49:51 AM
 #138

Is the plan that this all starts happening in January 2020?

Seems like it, but I'd expect him to do whatever works out best to maximise value at the time.   He doesn't need to do that just to "tank BTC", it will do that itself eventually.
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August 24, 2019, 12:09:47 AM
 #139

Relaying response.

Quote from: Shelby Moore

Quote
Craig Wright has attempted to modify the protocol of Bitcoin, converting it into a fiat with centrally controlled block sizes.

Wow.   Try the opposite of this.

Restore original protocol
Blocksize decided by nobody but what the block-finding node is willing to risk

Quote correctly without deleting portions so that readers can search and find the original discussion:

Let me tell you a parable:

[…]

Our protagonist, who had been a principal in the mining collective, was aware of the negative aspects of this protocol change. He wished to fight against this abomination. Having divested himself of mining power, however, he was absolutely powerless to do anything about the situation.

Our protagonist Craig Wright (a scammer[1]) has attempted to modify the protocol of Bitcoin, converting it into a fiat with centrally controlled block sizes. Any reply you make has already been discussed upthread. You’ll just be beating a dead horse as there are no new arguments that can be made.

[…]

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/9sexx0/craig_wright_actually_did_completely_original/
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/06/15/craig-wright-sees-motion-to-compel-him-to-reveal-his-bitcoin-holdings-granted/

In that discussion (which preceded the post you quoted from), I had explained that BSV’s theory (of miner’s converging on an adaptive block size) is nonsense. Will never work. It only works if and while BSV mining is centralized.

Please do not reply to prior discussion and pretend that what you are writing wasn’t already refuted. That’s very disingenuous.


Although it isn't accurate to say "Craig Wright is doing it".  Plenty of people are "doing it", if Craig wasn't around there are many others who understand the real power of bitcoins, and all the things BTC did to remove that power.    Cool

Agreed. The SegWit attack is coming regardless if Craig’s group led the way.

Remember BSV is only a decoy. The legacy, immutable Bitcoin is what survives. Read this entire and the entire linked threads! Educate yourself.




Is the plan that this all starts happening in January 2020?

Seems like it, but I'd expect him to do whatever works out best to maximise value at the time.   He doesn't need to do that just to "tank BTC", it will do that itself eventually.

Incorrect. The SegWit attack will begin at the May 2020 Bitcoin halving. Read my prior post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5147618.msg51584165#msg51584165

Remember BSV is only a decoy. The legacy, immutable Bitcoin is what survives. Read the entire thread!


davewantsmoore
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August 24, 2019, 12:27:48 AM
 #140

Quote
I had explained that BSV’s theory (of miner’s converging on an adaptive block size) is nonsense.

Not BSV's theory.  Bitcoin's.

There was no block size cap in the original bitcoin protocol, and one was only added to mitigate an attack vector which is no longer economically viable.
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