did I lose these Bitcoin SV tokens?

[bm453]

Hi,

At the time of the Bitcoin / Bitcoin Cash split (August 1, 2017) I had 40 BTC in a Breadwallet (which uses a BIP32 seed). Some time after that 40 BCH (Bitcoin Cash) were reported by the Breadwallet app. At the time of the Bitcoin Cash ABC / Bitcoin Cash SV split (November 15, 2018) I still had those 40 BCH in that Breadwallet.

A few months ago, I transferred 30 of those BCH from Breadwallet to changelly (and had them converted to Bitcoin). My Breadwallet then reported 10 remaining BCH. Breadwallet does not support Bitcoin SV and did not report any Bitcoin SV tokens. I assumed that I still had those 40 Bitcoin SV tokens and since their value was low I didn't really pay any attention to it.

Over the past few days Bitcoin SV shot up in price so I wanted to claim (and sell) those 40 Bitcoin SV tokens. Breadwallet uses BIP32 so after several false starts, yesterday I did the following:

1. Emptied my Breadwallet of all BTC and BCH (and ETH) by transferring those tokens into new desktop wallets (Electrum and Electron Cash for BTC and BCH).
2. Used bip39-standalone.html from https://github.com/iancoleman/bip39 with the following settings to get the private keys for that Breadwallet:

BIT39 Mnemonic: my Breadwallet "recovery key"
Coin: BTC - Bitcoin
Derivation Path: BIP32
Derivation Path: Client - Custom derivation path
BIP32 Derivation Path: m/0'/0 and then m/0'/1

I then used all of those private keys (went up to 400) to import my Bitcoin SV into Electrum SV.

However, only 10 Bitcoin SV, rather than 40, were swept in. None of the 30 Bitcoin SV for the 30 Bitcoin Cash ABC which I had sent to changelly after the split made it. The Bitcoin SV blockchain explorer (https://bchsvexplorer.com) shows those missing Bitcoin SV tokens being transferred out into keys with several hundred Bitcoin SV tokens (which are certainly not under my control - I don't have that many tokens of any of the bitcoin variants).

Did I permanently lose those 30 Bitcoin SV tokens or is there something I can do?

(For what it's worth, the 10 Bitcoin SV tokens for the 10 BCH ABC tokens which I transferred to my own new Electron Cash wallet yesterday did get swept into my Electrum SV wallet and this morning I transferred them to an exchange and sold them, so that worked as expected.)

Thanks in advance for any help, even if it's just bad news.

[Rath_]

Did I permanently lose those 30 Bitcoin SV tokens or is there something I can do?

There is nothing you can do. Neither Bitcoin SV nor Bitcoin ABC has a replay protection. It looks like your transaction has been replayed. Can you check when you sent 30 BCH and then when your 30 BSV disappeared?

[HCP]

Firstly, Bitcoin SV isn't Bitcoin (in spite of what Craig Wright is attempting to convince the world of), so your request should be in the Altcoin forum.

Secondly, I believe they didn't implement replay protection in Bitcoin SV... creating the so-called "Hashwar". The result being that any BCH transactions that were conducted immediately after the split, could be replayed on the Bitcoin SV network. So, my guess is that Changelly "received" your 40 BSV, due to the transaction being replayed.

I'm not even sure if BitcoinSV ever implemented replay protection...

[bitmover]

The Bitcoin SV blockchain explorer (https://bchsvexplorer.com) shows those missing Bitcoin SV tokens being transferred out into keys with several hundred Bitcoin SV tokens (which are certainly not under my control - I don't have that many tokens of any of the bitcoin variants).

Did I permanently lose those 30 Bitcoin SV tokens or is there something I can do?

Well it really looks like your coins are gone. If the coins moved to privatekeys you don't have, that's it ..

There is nothing you can do. Neither Bitcoin SV nor Bitcoin ABC has a replay protection. It looks like your transaction has been replayed. Can you check when you sent 30 BCH and then when your 30 BSV disappeared?

What a shitcoin.
I thought he may have leaked the privatekeys, but this replayed is also probable

Firstly, Bitcoin SV isn't Bitcoin (in spite of what Craig Wright is attempting to convince the world of), so your request should be in the Altcoin forum.

I think reclaiming forks could be in this session, or beginners and help. In altcoin session his post will be lost in the sea of spam

[Rath_]

I'm not even sure if BitcoinSV ever implemented replay protection...

What a shitcoin.
I thought he may have leaked the privatekeys, but this replayed is also probable

They don't even want to implement replay protection. Bitcoin Cash has a higher hash rate so why would its developers care about it?

[bm453]

Each of the Bitcoin SV transactions is dated a few minutes after the corresponding Bitcoin Cash ABC transaction. These transactions took place on April 18 and May 16, so 5+ months after the split.

There is no way that I leaked my private keys. I only used Breadwallet on iOS, never extracted the private keys until yesterday, and didn't lose any other coins (BTC, BCH or ETH) from that wallet.

If it was a matter of my transaction being "replayed", who would have received those 30 Bitcoin SV tokens. Would it have to be changelly or could it be anyone? Does it make any sense to contact changelly?

EDIT: Mods, feel free to move post if it's in the wrong place.

[serhanni]

I have just found this medium article and probably it will help to you. Could you please check and confirm it?
https://medium.com/@normal_rc/easiest-ways-to-split-your-bitcoin-cash-forked-coins-bch-bsv-7e545d046b31

Edit: If it is not working, try to contact with breadwallet support team. Their support department is very professional.

[Rath_]

Each of the Bitcoin SV transactions is dated a few minutes after the corresponding Bitcoin Cash ABC transaction.

This proves that your transaction has been replayed without your knowledge.

Would it have to be changelly or could it be anyone? Does it make any sense to contact changelly?

Have you tried googling the address which now has your BSV coins? You can try to contact them but I doubt that they will help you.

[bm453]

Each of the Bitcoin SV transactions is dated a few minutes after the corresponding Bitcoin Cash ABC transaction.

This proves that your transaction has been replayed without your knowledge.

Would it have to be changelly or could it be anyone? Does it make any sense to contact changelly?

Have you tried googling the address which now has your BSV coins? You can try to contact them but I doubt that they will help you.

Here is a transaction on April 18 where 10 Bitcoin SV coins were first transferred to an address outside of my control:

https://bchsvexplorer.com/tx/2e6670cd63f96193f4278d5541b6de52fe040488e0dfb4271e8c5ba7eca32e2b

(The 14.4 BSV were transferred to another address of mine in the BIP32 sequence, the 10 BSV were transferred out of my control.)

Three days later, those 10 coins were moved again:

https://bchsvexplorer.com/address/bitcoincash:qq0afd9l8gylearnansg5ljh2f29q5uumyvdk8rz94

The address they were moved to is here:

https://bchsvexplorer.com/address/bitcoincash:qpsqn5ghnm02jdajm5l9w8ddvk6uqxvqwymk2wt9ht

This seems to be some sort of aggregator address, with daily incoming and outgoing traffic and a total of 88,000 Bitcoin SV coins moved throughout its history.

Googling for that address doesn't bring up anything aside from the blockchain inspector.

Would anyone besides the recipient of the original Bitcoin Cash ABC transfer have the information needed to perform (and benefit from) this "replay"? In other words, is this foul play on the part of changelly or could any blockchain observer do this?

[HCP]

Would anyone besides the recipient of the original Bitcoin Cash ABC transfer have the information needed to perform (and benefit from) this "replay"? In other words, is this foul play on the part of changelly or could any blockchain observer do this?

Anyone with a copy of the BCH ABC blockchain, or access to a BCH ABC block explorer has all the information required to perform the replay.

All they need is the raw transaction (or TXID to look it up on block explorer)... and then you broadcast it on the BSV network. Without replay protection, it's a perfectly valid transaction on both networks.

Only the initial receiver would benefit, as you can't change the transaction (it'll break the signature after all)... but that doesn't necessarily mean they were the ones who
actually did replay it. Given that a LOT of people seem to have had BSV transferred while moving BCH, I'm guessing that there were simply BSV nodes that were automatically rebroadcasting any BCH transaction, on the BSV network... all part of the "hashwar" etc...

[bm453]

Would anyone besides the recipient of the original Bitcoin Cash ABC transfer have the information needed to perform (and benefit from) this "replay"? In other words, is this foul play on the part of changelly or could any blockchain observer do this?

Anyone with a copy of the BCH ABC blockchain, or access to a BCH ABC block explorer has all the information required to perform the replay.

All they need is the raw transaction (or TXID to look it up on block explorer)... and then you broadcast it on the BSV network. Without replay protection, it's a perfectly valid transaction on both networks.

Only the initial receiver would benefit, as you can't change the transaction (it'll break the signature after all)... but that doesn't necessarily mean they were the ones who
actually did replay it. Given that a LOT of people seem to have had BSV transferred while moving BCH, I'm guessing that there were simply BSV nodes that were automatically rebroadcasting any BCH transaction, on the BSV network... all part of the "hashwar" etc...

Thanks for the explanation.

Is it technically feasible for changelly to return the replayed BSV coins? After receiving the replayed BSV they could “split” them properly and return just the BSV while keeping the BCH, right?

FWIW - when I transferred BCH from my Breadwallet to my own desktop Electron Cash wallet the corresponding BSV did not get transferred. Only the BCH transfers to changelly were replayed. The dates of the transactions weren't that different (April 18 & May 16 for the changelly transfers, May 29 for the self-transfer).

[disconnectme]

Looking at your explanation, your coins is likely with Changelly but the question is will they do refund the coins, and know this mos exchanges do not support Bitcoin SV and if Changelly do not support it then they have no obligation to send the tokens because it is possible they don't have your coins also, remember ETH and ETC

[bm453]

Mini update: It seems that changelly is willing to return the replayed BSV coins, although it will take up to twenty business days. Will post an update once that is completed. Pretty awesome, IMO, if true.

Don't know the ETH/ETC story, didn't have either before that fork.

[bitcoinmar]

Mini update: It seems that changelly is willing to return the replayed BSV coins, although it will take up to twenty business days. Will post an update once that is completed. Pretty awesome, IMO, if true.

Don't know the ETH/ETC story, didn't have either before that fork.

I can't believe it if you split up another coin from it, too much altcoin has been separated from Bitcoin from 2017 up to now