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[B1tUnl0ck3r]

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[squatz1]

The only point I could see people bring up is the fact that the people who pay tariffs are citizens of the US and firms in the US who are consuming the products that are imported. It's not like this tax is being levied against the Mexican government for each product that is shipped into the US. All this does is make Mexican products more expensive, and make American (or other countries products) seem cheaper.

I'm not saying by this rationale that this is a good/bad decision. I do think that this is going to help force the Mexican government into working towards a solution though. Just wanted to show who pays for this.

[Spendulus]

The only point I could see people bring up is the fact that the people who pay tariffs are citizens of the US and firms in the US who are consuming the products that are imported. It's not like this tax is being levied against the Mexican government for each product that is shipped into the US. All this does is make Mexican products more expensive, and make American (or other countries products) seem cheaper.

I'm not saying by this rationale that this is a good/bad decision. I do think that this is going to help force the Mexican government into working towards a solution though. Just wanted to show who pays for this.

That's not so. Consumers in the USA will not "pay for more expensive Mexican goods that include the US Tariff."

They will see the Mexican goods as one option in a competitive market, and likely pick some other, equally good product, which does not include a tariff. The net effect of this is Mexico losing substantial income and trade, the US getting minimal tariff income, and US consumers paying minimal amounts of tariffs.

[squatz1]

The only point I could see people bring up is the fact that the people who pay tariffs are citizens of the US and firms in the US who are consuming the products that are imported. It's not like this tax is being levied against the Mexican government for each product that is shipped into the US. All this does is make Mexican products more expensive, and make American (or other countries products) seem cheaper.

I'm not saying by this rationale that this is a good/bad decision. I do think that this is going to help force the Mexican government into working towards a solution though. Just wanted to show who pays for this.

That's not so. Consumers in the USA will not "pay for more expensive Mexican goods that include the US Tariff."

They will see the Mexican goods as one option in a competitive market, and likely pick some other, equally good product, which does not include a tariff. The net effect of this is Mexico losing substantial income and trade, the US getting minimal tariff income, and US consumers paying minimal amounts of tariffs.

But you have to understand that the only reason that other goods are going to be bought by Americans due to the fact that Mexican goods are going to be more expensive due to the tarrifs. That's the only reason that the other goods now have to compete with other, more expensive goods.

They may still pay for Mexican products if they are still cheaper than other, comparable products, even with the tariff.

[Spendulus]

The only point I could see people bring up is the fact that the people who pay tariffs are citizens of the US and firms in the US who are consuming the products that are imported. It's not like this tax is being levied against the Mexican government for each product that is shipped into the US. All this does is make Mexican products more expensive, and make American (or other countries products) seem cheaper.

I'm not saying by this rationale that this is a good/bad decision. I do think that this is going to help force the Mexican government into working towards a solution though. Just wanted to show who pays for this.

That's not so. Consumers in the USA will not "pay for more expensive Mexican goods that include the US Tariff."

They will see the Mexican goods as one option in a competitive market, and likely pick some other, equally good product, which does not include a tariff. The net effect of this is Mexico losing substantial income and trade, the US getting minimal tariff income, and US consumers paying minimal amounts of tariffs.

But you have to understand that the only reason that other goods are going to be bought by Americans due to the fact that Mexican goods are going to be more expensive due to the tarrifs. That's the only reason that the other goods now have to compete with other, more expensive goods.

They may still pay for Mexican products if they are still cheaper than other, comparable products, even with the tariff.

You might be right for certain items, say avocados, which are largely imported from Central Mexico, IIRC.  Other growers might start to increase their fields and yields but for this item it might take ten years.

I don't know for sure, but yes that's possible.

Other items, suppliers could be easily and cheaply swapped.

[mayo2u]

The only point I could see people bring up is the fact that the people who pay tariffs are citizens of the US and firms in the US who are consuming the products that are imported. It's not like this tax is being levied against the Mexican government for each product that is shipped into the US. All this does is make Mexican products more expensive, and make American (or other countries products) seem cheaper.

I'm not saying by this rationale that this is a good/bad decision. I do think that this is going to help force the Mexican government into working towards a solution though. Just wanted to show who pays for this.

That's not so. Consumers in the USA will not "pay for more expensive Mexican goods that include the US Tariff."

They will see the Mexican goods as one option in a competitive market, and likely pick some other, equally good product, which does not include a tariff. The net effect of this is Mexico losing substantial income and trade, the US getting minimal tariff income, and US consumers paying minimal amounts of tariffs.

A business opens up shop in Mexico to save on labor and have relaxed environmental laws. In exchange for this positive (from the business' perspective) there are negatives: language and cultural issues, the infrastructure may not be as reliable, etc....

Now the net positive may only be 5% or 3% but 3% for a 10 billion dollar company is 300 million. That's nothing to sneeze at. Now, if there is a 5% tariff, or 10% tariff the following month. Now there's a problem here.

[BADecker]

Here's what the US is going to be doing, and why and how it will work - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5085852.msg51302621#msg51302621.

[PrimeNumber7]

The only point I could see people bring up is the fact that the people who pay tariffs are citizens of the US and firms in the US who are consuming the products that are imported. It's not like this tax is being levied against the Mexican government for each product that is shipped into the US. All this does is make Mexican products more expensive, and make American (or other countries products) seem cheaper.

I'm not saying by this rationale that this is a good/bad decision. I do think that this is going to help force the Mexican government into working towards a solution though. Just wanted to show who pays for this.

That's not so. Consumers in the USA will not "pay for more expensive Mexican goods that include the US Tariff."

They will see the Mexican goods as one option in a competitive market, and likely pick some other, equally good product, which does not include a tariff. The net effect of this is Mexico losing substantial income and trade, the US getting minimal tariff income, and US consumers paying minimal amounts of tariffs.

But you have to understand that the only reason that other goods are going to be bought by Americans due to the fact that Mexican goods are going to be more expensive due to the tarrifs. That's the only reason that the other goods now have to compete with other, more expensive goods.

They may still pay for Mexican products if they are still cheaper than other, comparable products, even with the tariff.

Tariffs on Mexican goods will cause less Mexican goods to be consumed, and will hurt Mexico. These tariffs will not push consumption of Mexican goods to zero, and US consumers will pay more for Mexican goods. As Spendulus stated, US consumers will substitute other goods if price/quality of the substituted goods makes sense, and US consumers will also buy less Mexican goods even when there is no comparable substitute when the goods are not needed to cover basic needs (less luxury goods will be purchased from Mexico).

Additional empirical evidence that tariffs hurt the country they are levied against is that the various countries Trump has levied tariffs against have issued retaliatory tariffs, and have tried to negotiate with the US to get the tariffs removed.

[Naida_BR]

I am not aware of the situation there. I have heard many things that people who live there can truly understand what's going on.
Maybe Mexico wants this influx of people to happen and they probably get benefited from it and they don't want to stop it.
The situation is serious and it can probably cause a significant crisis in the US or even raise extremist rights in power.

[BADecker]

Tariffs on Mexican goods will cause less Mexican goods to be consumed, and will hurt Mexico. These tariffs will not push consumption of Mexican goods to zero, and US consumers will pay more for Mexican goods. As Spendulus stated, US consumers will substitute other goods if price/quality of the substituted goods makes sense, and US consumers will also buy less Mexican goods even when there is no comparable substitute when the goods are not needed to cover basic needs (less luxury goods will be purchased from Mexico).

Additional empirical evidence that tariffs hurt the country they are levied against is that the various countries Trump has levied tariffs against have issued retaliatory tariffs, and have tried to negotiate with the US to get the tariffs removed.

Tariffs will cause the Mexican government to monitor their own borders to keep illegals from passing through Mexico to the U.S. Why? Because Mexico will have to recover the funds it loses in sales or tariffs.

A side effect will be that U.S. companies that moved to Mexico will want to move to some more favorable place in the world. This will really hurt the Mexican economy. If Mexico doesn't want this, they will hold people back, away from the U.S. border in the hopes that the U.S. will lift the tariffs.

Another side effect will be that some jobs will come back to the U.S., and that tariff money will help support the U.S.

Can anyone see the downside of this against the general populace of the American people?

[TheCoinGrabber]

OK, this may hurt Mexico but where else would Americans be getting the cheaper goods? They seem to be also in a trade war with China. Is there any Latin American country that can supply goods that would have come from Mexico?

I think someone should also be helping Mexico fix their borders, they're also being swamped by "immigrants" coming from South America. They also don't seem to have a strong border with Guatemala and Belize.

IMHO America should be doing what China is doing with Southeast Asia - pour investments into most neighbors. Get a stronger foothold on those countries by entangling their economy with yours and raise the standard of living just enough to reduce the number of people trying to go to America.

[coins4commies]

So the US is trying to extort Mexico into violating international law and human rights?

Any "logical" argument on behalf of this sick plan is irrelevant once the moral one is considered.  Human rights are such a nuisance sometimes huh?

[KingScorpio]

So the US is trying to extort Mexico into violating international law and human rights?

Any "logical" argument on behalf of this sick plan is irrelevant once the moral one is considered.  Human rights are such a nuisance sometimes huh?

jeah you've got to have the "cash" to afford human rights that's the true american philosophy.

[BADecker]

OK, this may hurt Mexico but where else would Americans be getting the cheaper goods? They seem to be also in a trade war with China. Is there any Latin American country that can supply goods that would have come from Mexico?

I think someone should also be helping Mexico fix their borders, they're also being swamped by "immigrants" coming from South America. They also don't seem to have a strong border with Guatemala and Belize.

IMHO America should be doing what China is doing with Southeast Asia - pour investments into most neighbors. Get a stronger foothold on those countries by entangling their economy with yours and raise the standard of living just enough to reduce the number of people trying to go to America.

Cheaper goods means cheap junk. Americans are fed up with junk. Let's bring our companies back home so that they can make good stuff rather than cheap stuff.

[BADecker]

So the US is trying to extort Mexico into violating international law and human rights?

Any "logical" argument on behalf of this sick plan is irrelevant once the moral one is considered.  Human rights are such a nuisance sometimes huh?

jeah you've got to have the "cash" to afford human rights that's the true american philosophy.

International law isn't binding on any country except when a country accepts such binbing. It's a farce. Just ask Chad in his Seasteading venture.

Human rights for Americans in America is more important than human rights for Mexicans in America. Let the Mexicans stay home.

[TheCoinGrabber]

OK, this may hurt Mexico but where else would Americans be getting the cheaper goods? They seem to be also in a trade war with China. Is there any Latin American country that can supply goods that would have come from Mexico?

I think someone should also be helping Mexico fix their borders, they're also being swamped by "immigrants" coming from South America. They also don't seem to have a strong border with Guatemala and Belize.

IMHO America should be doing what China is doing with Southeast Asia - pour investments into most neighbors. Get a stronger foothold on those countries by entangling their economy with yours and raise the standard of living just enough to reduce the number of people trying to go to America.

Cheaper goods means cheap junk. Americans are fed up with junk. Let's bring our companies back home so that they can make good stuff rather than cheap stuff.

And how likely is that? It seems the companies leaving China are just moving to Vietnam for example. But yeah, if Americans didn't wanted cheaper goods, everything could have been produced at home anyway.

[PrimeNumber7]

Can anyone see the downside of this against the general populace of the American people?

This is not risk free to America. Prices of some goods will go up. Instead of addressing the migration issue, the Mexico government may issue retaliatory tariffs on US goods.

The Mexican government is very corrupt, and does not care about its people the same way an American President should. The Mexican government has also dumped many of its problems into the US over many decades. 

[TECSHARE]

Can anyone see the downside of this against the general populace of the American people?

This is not risk free to America. Prices of some goods will go up. Instead of addressing the migration issue, the Mexico government may issue retaliatory tariffs on US goods.

The Mexican government is very corrupt, and does not care about its people the same way an American President should. The Mexican government has also dumped many of its problems into the US over many decades. 

Mexico is not in any position to make demands from the USA. Its primary income is from remittances from workers in the USA. All the USA would have to do is put its foot on that hose of money and they would choke.

[PrimeNumber7]

Can anyone see the downside of this against the general populace of the American people?

This is not risk free to America. Prices of some goods will go up. Instead of addressing the migration issue, the Mexico government may issue retaliatory tariffs on US goods.

The Mexican government is very corrupt, and does not care about its people the same way an American President should. The Mexican government has also dumped many of its problems into the US over many decades. 

Mexico is not in any position to make demands from the USA. Its primary income is from remittances from workers in the USA. All the USA would have to do is put its foot on that hose of money and they would choke.

In 2017, remittances to Mexico were $28 billion, compared to a GDP of $1,150 Billion ($1.15 trillion), or about 2.4% of the Mexican economy. According to a recent New York Times article, Mexico exported ~$346 Billion in goods to the US last year, or 30% of their economy.

A tax on Remittances would slow the inflow of migrants into the US because migrants would be unable to send many times the local wage back home to support their families.

[coins4commies]

If only there was a way to send money abroad instantly and anonymously.  #coins4migrants