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Author Topic: Bitcoin needs something equivalent to a stock split  (Read 5432 times)
klabaki
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Ƶ = µBTC


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March 19, 2014, 03:01:54 AM
 #41

The need is clear, and the microbitcoin is a nice sized unit, but a mess of a word/abbreviation.

What's needed is a new word, related to Bitcoin and just as breezy, but with one unambiguous meaning (µBTC) that still leaves plenty of room for appreciation.

My proposal is here:

Ƶibcoin: Your New Favorite Altcoin

Lots of reasoning there, much of which has already been mentioned here, but the TLDR:
  1          bitcoin = 1,000,000    zibcoin = 100,000,000 satoshi
  0.000001   bitcoin =         1    zibcoin =         100 satoshi           
  0.00000001 bitcoin =         0.01 zibcoin =           1 satoshi
...and...
          Ƶ1 = 1 µBTC = BTC0.000001
      Ƶ1,000 = 1 mBTC = BTC0.001
  Ƶ1,000,000          = BTC1

'Zib' can be used as either a noun or verb in casual conversation:

“I’ll bring you a pizza for 10,000 zib

“when are you going to zib me 10,000 for that pizza Friday night?”

Unless the satoshi is ever made divisible, other new terms won't be necessary. Zibcoin units can be adopted incrementally over time – there's no need for a big synchronized switchover, where old terms change their meaning.

I know it sounds a bit silly, but I think it'll grow on you if you give it a chance.





Sweet. Grin

Ƶ = µBTC

Wer den Satoshi nicht ehrt, der ist den Ƶibcoin nicht wert.
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March 19, 2014, 03:10:54 AM
 #42

Too much confusion and effort for too little a benefit. Using mBTC would work out better in my opinion.
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March 19, 2014, 04:49:49 AM
 #43

I have the solution. Create consensus to rename units as follows:

1 BTC --> becomes 1 Satoshi (the largest unit named in honor of the inventor)
1 mBTC --> becomes 1 BTC

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March 19, 2014, 04:57:53 AM
 #44

I have the solution. Create consensus to rename units as follows:

1 BTC --> becomes 1 Satoshi (the largest unit named in honor of the inventor)
1 mBTC --> becomes 1 BTC


So that the thousands of projects, and millions of users, can switch at the same time, when's the switchover day where 'Bitcoin' is redefined?

Will the markets be closed, like when a country changes the side of the road it drives on?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H

klabaki
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March 19, 2014, 05:47:10 AM
 #45


I would like to know the etymology of "zib". Smiley

Ƶ = µBTC

Wer den Satoshi nicht ehrt, der ist den Ƶibcoin nicht wert.
gojomo
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March 19, 2014, 07:41:19 AM
 #46


I would like to know the etymology of "zib". Smiley

Wanted something similar enough to 'bitcoin' to suggest a relation – same general size/sounds/syllables – but different enough to avoid constant confusion.

Spent some time looking at 'tibcoin' – just reversing the 'bit' part – but was concerned with 'T' having too many colliding meanings (tera-, TiB tebibytes, time, etc), and the abbreviation (TBC) being too much like BTC, and 'tibcoin' being too easily confusable with 'bitcoin' by single-letter transposition typos or flubbed speech.

Still, having the internal 'b' seemed helpful for slight bitcoin-suggestiveness, so went through the alphabet for '*ibcoin' options... Most had problems of colliding meanings or unclear/unhelpful pronunciations. 'Z', though, offered:

  • 'Z' as a fairly distinctive one-letter abbreviation; 'ZBC' just different enough from 'BTC' to avoid too many mistypes/misviews
  • Ƶ (Z-with-slash) available currency-ish unicode character
  • 'zib' pronounceable with no obvious word collisions in English
  • 'zib' very action verb-able, by my native English speaker ears, compared to 'bit' or 'mic' ("I'll bit 10,000 to you" or "I'll mic 10,000 to you" both sound wrongish compared to "I'll zib 10,000 to you")
  • a useful connotation of 'finality' or 'the last' – once this unit is adopted, even satoshi-sized values need no more than 2 decimal places, and the search for new units or places to move the decimal point can end


Stewed on 'zibcoin' for a little while, then decided to write up the case in a few stable public places. I believe it solves the core issue, with the minimum required novelty. But, I know it'll take time to evaluate – to become familiar with the sound/spelling/abbreviations, and observe the compactness/unambiguity benefits compared to other options.

Getting the case out in a few forums lets it enter the thinkable-solution-set for people struggling with BTC-deep-decimal/mBTC/µBTC display issues, which come up repeatedly (including recently among core & wallet developers).

If Zibcoin doesn't sound quite right on first consideration... maybe it will over time, as more people repeatedly face BTC appreciation/denomination/communication issues.

(I thought a microbitcoin-based denomination would be overkill/superficial/silly the first few times I heard the idea... but now see it as so obviously beneficial that I just want to help remove the major remaining obstacle, the awkward language of 'microbitcoin' and 'µBTC'.)
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March 19, 2014, 08:26:50 AM
 #47

OP's idea is the most idiotic idea I have heard for a long time.

1 BTC = 1 BTC
A=A

0.001 of a bitcoin is a millibit if you wish.

If bitcoin's spread is contingent on a change in a decimal place then the human race deserves to fail.

Do you really think the unbanked, the oppressed, those under hyperinflation give a f**k about where the BTC decimal place is?

Should we edit the historical internet so all mentions of BTC amounts are multiplied by 1000?

Perhaps we should airbrush all images of Mark Karpeles from history?

Grow up and get an abacus or something.

Dogecoin has enough numbers above 1 for you - although that crowd are too smart for you.

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March 19, 2014, 09:15:53 AM
 #48

It is funny how people create inexistent problems and then propose even more absurd solutions to them.

Just use millibitcoin instead of bitcoin. 0.65 instead of 650. problem solved.

Just use millibitcoin now and in 10 years, use microbitcoin, then in 50 years, use statoshi.
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March 19, 2014, 09:42:43 AM
 #49


I would like to know the etymology of "zib". Smiley

While my previous long answer is the true origin - that I searched for made-up words that might fit the need until finding a good one – I've since learned that ZIB was also the name given to a stray dog that was drafted into the Soviet Space Program in September 1951, and flew a successful suborbital test flight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_dogs#Bolik_and_ZIB

http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2011/04/05/bark-at-the-moon-a-history-of-soviet-space-dogs/

Thus I'm retconning the Zibcoin name as an homage to ZIB, the unlikeliest space mutt.

Without any formal preparation, I'm guessing ZIB got closer to the moon than any Shiba Inu. Attaboy, ZIB!

ZIB, we remember you.
klabaki
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March 19, 2014, 10:20:33 AM
 #50

While my previous long answer is the true origin - that I searched for made-up words that might fit the need until finding a good one – I've since learned that ZIB was also the name given to a stray dog that was drafted into the Soviet Space Program in September 1951, and flew a successful suborbital test flight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_dogs#Bolik_and_ZIB

http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2011/04/05/bark-at-the-moon-a-history-of-soviet-space-dogs/

Thus I'm retconning the Zibcoin name as an homage to ZIB, the unlikeliest space mutt.

Without any formal preparation, I'm guessing ZIB got closer to the moon than any Shiba Inu. Attaboy, ZIB!

ZIB, we remember you.

When you look into an etymological dictionary, you'll see that many words have two (or more) etymologies... so I'll give another one:

Zibcoin is the short form of zipped microbitcoin, which is a technical term for "compressed microbitcoin", i.e. a shorter version of the word "microbitcoin".




But the etymology shouldn't bother us to much; what I really care about is whether we will get these images...

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/res/icons/bitcoin.png
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/res/icons/bitcoin_testnet.png
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/res/images/splash.png
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/res/images/splash_testnet.png

...with a Ƶ instead of a BTC?

Then we would have the most important ingredients for a successful altcoin(-age). Cheesy

Ƶ = µBTC

Wer den Satoshi nicht ehrt, der ist den Ƶibcoin nicht wert.
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March 19, 2014, 12:41:21 PM
 #51



take FIAT for instance. dollar notes are called benjamins, lincolns, etc. in the UK. a monkey, a pony, etc.

In 29 years I've NEVER heard anyone refer to a 5$ bill as a 'lincoln'. Ever.

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March 19, 2014, 12:54:20 PM
 #52

agree - the issue is to use bitcoins for its purpose ie low cost transactions. the yen is about 1% of the US dollar but people get their head around it. its the opposite to something being about 650 times one dollar but it is the same fundamental issue.

It's not the same issue, just a similar one. Here's the difference:


Imagine a can of coke is valued 0.99 $, and also imagine people would prefer to use the unit "kilodollar" (k$) for some insane reason.
Now, how would that can of coke be priced?

It's 0.00099 k$.

...or was it 0.00990 k$?
...or maybe .000099 k$?

On the other hand, let's imagine people would prefer to use "millidollar" (m$) for some other insane reason.
Taking the same can of coke, how would the price look like?

It's 990 m$.

This cannot be mistaken as 9900 m$.
And it cannot be mistaken as 99 m$.


Have a look at the numbers above. As you can see, it is much much more difficult to count the post-decimal zeros than to just measure the length of the number. That's a big difference.
So, if we're in doubt, we should prefer to use a too small-sized unit rather than a too big-sized unit.


Currently, people use a too big-sized unit (BTC), which makes it necessary to count post-decimal zeros. This is inconvenient and error-prone.


Exactly, when I try to explain the decimals to people their eyes glaze over and they mentally check out. I mean, a bitcoin is currently worth a take-home paycheck for a lot of people, when you tell them that they lose interest immediately and that's in the U.S., if you want half the world to adopt it (that make far far far far far less money) 1 bitcoin is currently worth more than most of them will make in a YEAR, worldwide, the median household income is only about $10,000 (16.12BTC) and it's fairly lower in a lot of places... If you want people to adopt it as a currency, it needs to be easy to understand and not make people feel like they'll be bitcoin poor.

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Kazimir
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March 19, 2014, 01:39:10 PM
 #53

Having "new" bitcoins vs "old" bitcoins (where 2 or 10 or 50 news ones equal one old) is WAY more confusing than using "milliBits".

Currently, one milliBit is about $ 0.61. That's REALLY cheap! Sounds like pennystocks to me, let's pick up a few of those Smiley

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Insert coin(s): 1KazimirL9MNcnFnoosGrEkmMsbYLxPPob
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March 19, 2014, 01:50:27 PM
 #54

Having "new" bitcoins vs "old" bitcoins (where 2 or 10 or 50 news ones equal one old) is WAY more confusing than using "milliBits".

Currently, one milliBit is about $ 0.61. That's REALLY cheap! Sounds like pennystocks to me, let's pick up a few of those Smiley

We don't need 'new bitcoins' we just need to shift the decimal right some. Sooner we do it, easier it will be.

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Kazimir
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March 19, 2014, 02:49:52 PM
 #55

We don't need 'new bitcoins' we just need to shift the decimal right some. Sooner we do it, easier it will be.
Same problem. Or even worse probably. Having "shifted" vs "unshifted" bitcoins is gonna confuse the hell out of people.

You seriously don't see how this is gonna cause TONS of people wine "I PAID 0.17 BTC FOR MY PIZZA, I GOT RIPPED OFF" etc?

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Insert coin(s): 1KazimirL9MNcnFnoosGrEkmMsbYLxPPob
ryanmnercer
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March 19, 2014, 02:51:48 PM
 #56

We don't need 'new bitcoins' we just need to shift the decimal right some. Sooner we do it, easier it will be.
Same problem. Or even worse probably. Having "shifted" vs "unshifted" bitcoins is gonna confuse the hell out of people.

You seriously don't see how this is gonna cause TONS of people wine "I PAID 0.17 BTC FOR MY PIZZA, I GOT RIPPED OFF" etc?

Then they are morons. All that needs to be done is the community needs to approve a shift, official bitcoin client gets release with said shift and all wallets are forced to be updated. Period. People wake up and notice they have a hell of a lot more whole numbers than they went to sleep with.

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Kazimir
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March 19, 2014, 03:12:46 PM
 #57

Then they are morons.
Hello..! 95% of all people ARE morons.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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ryanmnercer
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March 19, 2014, 03:19:00 PM
 #58

Then they are morons.
Hello..! 95% of all people ARE morons.

I resemble that remark!!!

I mean, heh yup.

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March 19, 2014, 05:29:34 PM
 #59

I see that there is a big unification towards the "millibit" terminology, but I think that is too confusing for the average person.  In the united states, we have resisted switching to the Metric system because "it's just too damn confusing." (which is insane, because inches and feet are arbitrary.  We should have switched to the metric system ages ago.)
Maybe the average person in US. But fortunately, everybody else uses the confusing metric system and since bitcoin is a global currency that just seems fair. Besides, you don't have prefixes in imperial system (at least afaik) and no one wants to own 50 foot bitcoins.
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March 19, 2014, 05:39:29 PM
 #60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLGgzN8Kd7Q&feature=kp
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