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Author Topic: Bet 365 Account sales – report/feedback/flag – all/some/none – Consensus ?  (Read 313 times)
DdmrDdmr
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June 18, 2019, 10:19:52 AM
Last edit: June 18, 2019, 10:52:34 AM by DdmrDdmr
Merited by Welsh (5), dbshck (4), GreatArkansas (1)
 #1

I was wondering if there was a consensus on the way to deal with the sales of Bet 365 accounts and alike, especially if they are selling the accounts along with IDs/Selfies. I’ve seen a lot of Bitcointalk accounts selling them, with no Trust related feedback (nor flags now), some did have DT feedback, and some had some untrusted feedback.

Conceptually, the sellers are effectively committing a crime by providing other peoples IDs in the transaction, leading to Identity theft, even if for the use of the Bet 365 account. These people seem to be on the dark side as it is, and that alone may call for a yellow flag + negative feedback, as one may be in high risk of losing their money when purchasing an account of the kind (i.e. not get their account in the end (*)).

(*) I came across a Bet 365 account seller the other day that had a Telegram group (or such) to warn people from scam account sellers. Paradoxically, he recommended some trusted sellers, amongst which was himself, his argument being that he always delivers the goods …

I thought that these cases might also fall under rule number 17:
<…> 17. Trading of goods that are illegal in the seller's or buyer's country is forbidden. [2]
But one would, if read verbatim, need to take into account the legislation on a country basis, and since we do not know the country of residence of the sellers/[buyers], then I’m not 100% sure if reporting is the way to go.

In summary, the cases to consider would be:
a.   Selling Bet 365 account (or alike) with ID/selfie (high suspicion that it is not the seller’s own ID).
b.   Selling Bet 365 account (or alike) with no explicit mention to ID.
c.   Buying Bet 365 account (more difficult to find stated in a post, unless he’s been scammed by the seller).

And the possible actions a combination of:
1.   Do nothing.
2.   Report to moderator for potentially breaking rule Nº 17.
3.   Give negative trust.
4.   Yellow Flag.
5.   Red Flag (only by those directly scammed – likely type II flag, being the contract the written price negotiation).

Related thread: bet365 and bitcointalk accounts. I did not see a definite stand there.

Relevant post:re: Hacked invites/accounts are not allowed
Quote
Accounts on sites that require KYC such as bank accounts, PayPal, etc. are assumed to be hacked unless you explain why they're not hacked.

What do you think?  Is there a common stand on the cause of action for cases "a","b" and "c" ?

@Csmiami
The part of the terms and conditions you referred to in English can be retrieved here: https://help.bet365.es/en/terms-and-conditions
Quote
1.2 All information supplied when registering with the site MUST be your information and be accurate and complete in all respects. Where this is not the case, we reserve the right to suspend the user registration and treat any deposits into the gambling account as being invalid (and any winnings arising from such deposit as void). Where a user registration is suspended, the relevant customer should contact Customer Services.

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June 18, 2019, 10:33:51 AM
 #2

Even if I agree with you, I'm not completely sure about this point
Quote
Conceptually, the sellers are effectively committing a crime by providing other peoples IDs in the transaction

What these people are doing is selling verified accounts, not ID's I've know some people off-line that also make this.

They kind of "rent" an account you verify, the place the bets, win (or no), withdraw the balance and pay you some part of that balance. It's usually people whose accounts have been banned for breaking internal rules of the site (winning too much according to them).

So my point is that even if it goes against Bet 365 internal rules:
Quote
1.2 Toda información proporcionada al registrarse en esta página Web DEBERÁ ser su información y ser precisa y completa. De lo contrario, nos reservamos el derecho a suspender la cuenta y anular cualquier ingreso que que se haya realizado a la misma
  (it says that there, but I get redirected to the Spanish site every time)

I'm not that sure about the part of breaking any actual law

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June 18, 2019, 11:03:52 AM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (1)
 #3

Recently I started to ban a lot these account sellers on sight (same goes for other services' accounts with similar KYC), but if I don't ban them it means either:

a) they aren't Newbies anymore, other Global mods and Admins should deal with them; or
b) they have managed to convince me the accounts they are selling haven't been obtained through fraudulent means (I won't say what I'm looking for)

Feel free to report them, many do get banned.

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June 19, 2019, 06:22:46 AM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (1)
 #4

You should report the threads if the Bet 365 account is KYC verified and the OP does not explain how it is not hacked. When I see a thread offing copies of documents with the account, I refer to this post and don't report it:
<>
if the seller can provide the documents used for verification I assume they either belong to them, or they found someone desperate enough who's willing to provide document scans or selfies for a small fee. If they're selling hacked accounts then I assume the accounts even if verified would come without the assorted documents photos/scans. I'm sending a PM to theymos anyway for a clarification.

I have made the argument these sales lead to identity theft, but it was not responded to, so I suppose it was not accepted. If he is not including ID documents and doesn't otherwise give an explanation as to how what he is selling is not hacked, you should report the thread to the moderators.

I have seen several people in the Invites & Accounts section say they have negative trust only because they were selling forum accounts, when they are primarily selling other things. I think creating flags on these sellers without some other red flags is counterproductive in warning inexperienced users.

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June 19, 2019, 11:54:14 AM
 #5

You should report the threads if the Bet 365 account is KYC verified and the OP does not explain how it is not hacked. When I see a thread offing copies of documents with the account, I refer to this post and don't report it:
<>
if the seller can provide the documents used for verification I assume they either belong to them, or they found someone desperate enough who's willing to provide document scans or selfies for a small fee. If they're selling hacked accounts then I assume the accounts even if verified would come without the assorted documents photos/scans. I'm sending a PM to theymos anyway for a clarification.

I consulted with theymos on this subject later that day, you can report these kinds of posts, I also ban many of them now.

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June 19, 2019, 09:16:41 PM
 #6

I've reported a lot of them in these 2 months but if I'm not wrong (I've checked only few days after the report) the message will be deleted but accounts are often not nuked.

Do you ban or nuke newbies?

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June 19, 2019, 09:58:51 PM
 #7

If they're Newbies and their topic has disappeared it means they have been nuked (= all posts are deleted and the account is banned).

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June 20, 2019, 06:04:23 AM
 #8

You should report the threads if the Bet 365 account is KYC verified and the OP does not explain how it is not hacked. When I see a thread offing copies of documents with the account, I refer to this post and don't report it:
<>
if the seller can provide the documents used for verification I assume they either belong to them, or they found someone desperate enough who's willing to provide document scans or selfies for a small fee. If they're selling hacked accounts then I assume the accounts even if verified would come without the assorted documents photos/scans. I'm sending a PM to theymos anyway for a clarification.

I consulted with theymos on this subject later that day, you can report these kinds of posts, I also ban many of them now.
Thanks. I'll keep this in mind when reviewing the Invites & Accounts section.

Most of these kinds of sellers appears to be cleaned up now.

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June 20, 2019, 07:51:22 AM
 #9

So far then, it seems that:

- We should report these type of posts, especially if they announce that KYC related documents are provided.

- Trust, in any of its variants, may not really do much good, since the buyer knows what he’s getting into, and negative trust or flags will likely not deter him.

 
Questions that remain unclear to me:

Q1) What if the seller sells Bet 365 accounts (or alike), but does not explicitly mention that they come along with KYC (i.e. simply sells Bet 365 accounts and redirects to a Telegram id)?

Q2) What if the seller sells Bet 365 accounts (or alike), and mentions that they are verified, but does not mention that the IDs will be provided?

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June 20, 2019, 07:16:40 PM
 #10

Q1) What if the seller sells Bet 365 accounts (or alike), but does not explicitly mention that they come along with KYC (i.e. simply sells Bet 365 accounts and redirects to a Telegram id)?
Q2) What if the seller sells Bet 365 accounts (or alike), and mentions that they are verified, but does not mention that the IDs will be provided?

A1) For now, if I don't see any info about accounts being ID verified/having passed KYC/real document scans being provided/etc. (which is rare) I don't do anything.
A2) Report them. Sometimes I can find something that can convince me that they're legit, but usually they aren't, or they aren't convincing enough.

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June 20, 2019, 11:27:00 PM
 #11

Q1) What if the seller sells Bet 365 accounts (or alike), but does not explicitly mention that they come along with KYC (i.e. simply sells Bet 365 accounts and redirects to a Telegram id)?
I believe Bet365 requires all accounts to be KYC verified. When you try to sign up for an account, they require you to input your name and address, and it says to enter accurate information, and that your identity must be verified for continued use of the account.

Based on the above, I believe it is safe to assume any Bet365 account for sale is KYC verified.

I have found a couple of other websites whose accounts also require KYC verification, and when I find a thread selling an account to one of these websites, I put in the note how I determined that KYC is required to actually use the account.

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June 21, 2019, 09:24:24 AM
 #12

Bet365 accounts require identity verification if you want to use all their services. You are required to verify your age and there is also an address verification. They will send you a letter via post containing a code, this code has to be entered into the system. There is no way to avoid this.

If someone is selling multiple bet365 accounts and can't provide proof how he has access to those accounts I would consider those hacked or stolen. 

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June 21, 2019, 09:37:22 AM
 #13

Bet365 accounts require identity verification if you want to use all their services. You are required to verify your age and there is also an address verification. They will send you a letter via post containing a code, this code has to be entered into the system. There is no way to avoid this.

If someone is selling multiple bet365 accounts and can't provide proof how he has access to those accounts I would consider those hacked or stolen. 

The next question is on why they are selling only bet365 accounts when we have hundreds of bookmakers worldwide?

Something is strange here, must be the same guy over and over or most likely fail on their security protocol ?!?

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June 21, 2019, 11:30:08 AM
 #14

The next question is on why they are selling only bet365 accounts when we have hundreds of bookmakers worldwide?
Not sure. Bet365 is one of the better bookies I have tried. A wide selection of bets and a variety of different sports are available. They have a good streaming service that used to be world class in terms of stability and delay, it seems slower now but is still very useful. Not to go off topic here but those could be some of the reasons why. 

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