How long realistically before global mandatory kyc on all exchange/VASP?

[samdan777712]

Bitseven just pulled the plug on US residents today.

Things seem to be moving fast. I fear the days on bitmex, bybit etc are numbered.

What could Arther possibly do to stop this, what real recourse does he have? I'm sure he has a few tricks to stall. But I'm sure the other small exchange will buckle and comply.

I don't think anyon truly understands how incredibly few options American's have to buy crypto and the type and leverage etc. Regulators are breakin our legs. Total madness, makes me regret that I don't have close canadian family or friends, I'd use their kyc in a heartbeat.

[gentlemand]

I do hope you don't have any money on Bitmex because it's been shut for Americans for ages. Presumably you're accessing through a VPN. Make sure you don't slip up.

The only place I can think of off the top of my head is Kraken, but getting dollars on there is not simple.

[Kemarit]

How about Binance though? They are offering a trading platform customized to US citizens, partnering with BAM Trading Services. But they haven't release any date yet as far as I know. I'm not a US citizen but I can feel where you coming from, US regulators are really coming down very hard on every US crypto enthusiast that it's really hard to get like yourself going in this crypto sphere.

[veleten]

How about Binance though? They are offering a trading platform customized to US citizens, partnering with BAM Trading Services. But they haven't release any date yet as far as I know. I'm not a US citizen but I can feel where you coming from, US regulators are really coming down very hard on every US crypto enthusiast that it's really hard to get like yourself going in this crypto sphere.

it was on the news that Binance is going to stop serving the US customers , so it is not an option anymore
https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/06/15/bitcoin-price-jumps-above-8700-following-binance-us-closure/

not sure if this can be trusted  , but some thought that this news was the reason for the bull run we are seeing, somehow
one thing is for sure - KYC and limitations on bitcoin trading is becoming reality , US first , then , probably , the rest will follow

[gentlemand]

How about Binance though? They are offering a trading platform customized to US citizens, partnering with BAM Trading Services. But they haven't release any date yet as far as I know. I'm not a US citizen but I can feel where you coming from, US regulators are really coming down very hard on every US crypto enthusiast that it's really hard to get like yourself going in this crypto sphere.

They're creating it to presumably be fully US compliant and as this thread ably demonstrates the US doesn't want people playing with margin unless they're big swinging dicks.

The very short lived gdax margin trading was for institutions and stuff only.

[timerland]

Bitseven just pulled the plug on US residents today.

Things seem to be moving fast. I fear the days on bitmex, bybit etc are numbered.

What could Arther possibly do to stop this, what real recourse does he have? I'm sure he has a few tricks to stall. But I'm sure the other small exchange will buckle and comply.

I don't think anyon truly understands how incredibly few options American's have to buy crypto and the type and leverage etc. Regulators are breakin our legs. Total madness, makes me regret that I don't have close canadian family or friends, I'd use their kyc in a heartbeat.

I think that there will always be certain platforms that are unregulated, or exist in jurisdictions where regulated exchanges allow for non-KYC accounts to use their services.

Furthermore, due to the decentralized nature of bitcoin, it is extremely hard for there to be a global consensus for lawmakers as to what path to pursue - especially when revenue is on the line if a country does choose to allow more progressive crypto laws.

But you're right in terms of the fact that we're heading in this direction. Nationally, U.S. I think has already tightened their regulations so much that essentially all regulated exchanges will require KYC from you. Exchanges like Polo and Bittrex used to allow semi-anonymous accounts, but not anymore. But globally, it is extremely hard to enforce, and I think p2p options will always be open.

[1Referee]

I think that there will always be certain platforms that are unregulated

Yobit and the rest of the shitcoin exchanges will happily continue to offer their services to anyone without holding back. The more competent exchanges start to comply with regulations, the more Yobit will benefit. I doubt they will grow out to such size where they become interesting for authorities to chase after. Yobit will continue to have an easy ride.

Too bad Yobit is a shady entity. If they behaved normal I actually would support them to stay unregulated. It's always good to have a non-kyc exchange where you can dump your forks and airdrops without hassle.

[Harlot]

I don't think exchanges have anything to stall for anymore right now they are lucky they are only facing orders and planned actions but if KYC becomes a requirement in written law they cannot fo anything anymore to become a anonymous exchange. It's either they asked KYC earlier to be prepared than be put out of business temporarily without them able to show up KYC requirements for their clients once the madatory requirement become in order. Binance already pulled the plug in the U.S. market which is showing signs that U.S.A will be the first one to strike with it, so I'll probably move out my funds ffrom those exchanges who aren't already asking KYCs.

[timerland]

I think that there will always be certain platforms that are unregulated

Yobit and the rest of the shitcoin exchanges will happily continue to offer their services to anyone without holding back. The more competent exchanges start to comply with regulations, the more Yobit will benefit. I doubt they will grow out to such size where they become interesting for authorities to chase after. Yobit will continue to have an easy ride.

Too bad Yobit is a shady entity. If they behaved normal I actually would support them to stay unregulated. It's always good to have a non-kyc exchange where you can dump your forks and airdrops without hassle.

Unfortunately, unregulated exchanges I think will always have this notion of them being shady associated with their platform, and a lot of that will be of good reason. So you're definitely right in that regard.

However, p2p trading I think will continue to go on, independent of even unregulated exchanges. And I doubt that for their own profitability, all of these p2p platforms will be willing to comply with the standards of a regulated exchange.

I think we'll see the trend continue where smaller exchanges get popular because of the fact that they accept anonymous accounts, and then once they reach a certain size of operation, they are forced into offering KYC. But there is also a possibility that countries like Malta will offer a safe haven for services which do not want to do KYC, which it is already doing on a small-medium scale.

[figmentofmyass]

there seems to be a consensus that codification of the local laws (and taking effect) will take some time---some months at least. at the same time, we're seeing exchanges prepare for the inevitable. one government (lithuania) has already passed legislation reflecting the new FATF rules even before they've officially been published.

I do hope you don't have any money on Bitmex because it's been shut for Americans for ages. Presumably you're accessing through a VPN. Make sure you don't slip up.

they've been known to liquidate positions and terminate accounts over logging in from the USA, but i've never heard of them confiscating deposits over it. americans should definitely limit the funds they keep there, but for many of us it's a risk worth taking.

[gentlemand]

they've been known to liquidate positions and terminate accounts over logging in from the USA, but i've never heard of them confiscating deposits over it. americans should definitely limit the funds they keep there, but for many of us it's a risk worth taking.

I'm not saying they'll deprive you of your money. You may find yourself cut off with some sort of open position that winds up getting screwed though. I dunno what their process is. I'm sure they're still infested with Americans and they know it.

[dothebeats]

They're creating it to presumably be fully US compliant and as this thread ably demonstrates the US doesn't want people playing with margin unless they're big swinging dicks.

This is true. For the most part they'd side on those who can do big favors for them and not really the average Joes who don't have deep pockets on them. The rich always gets the exception for silly rules applied to all who can't afford to be in the 1%, and that's just saddening.

The very short lived gdax margin trading was for institutions and stuff only.

Yup, it was rebranded as Coinbase Pro but totally different in terms of rules and ToS. I wish they bring that back, or at least get a working DEX which everyone can use freely without having to submit lousy KYC to regulators and exchange operators every so often.

[BitHodler]

Yup, it was rebranded as Coinbase Pro but totally different in terms of rules and ToS. I wish they bring that back, or at least get a working DEX which everyone can use freely without having to submit lousy KYC to regulators and exchange operators every so often.

I don't think the right course of action is to see centralized exchanges set up decentralized exchanges, because it counters their main business and for that reason will end up being similar to BinanceDEX.

People have been hyping up Binance DEX for a long time now (very likely because they own BNB and think it will go up), but for people watching from a distance not being biased it's clear that it isn't a decentralized exchange at all.

If decentralized exchanges will be a thing of the future, the last thing we need is to have centralized exchanges get into it. The sole reason decentralized exchanges are needed is because to no longer deal with them.

[figmentofmyass]

it'd be awesome if some crypto-only exchanges gave the finger to these rules. since they don't even need transmit fiat to/from customers, it might even be sustainable for a while. but this would definitely move services like bitmex from the "grey market" to the "black market" because if history is any indicator, most of the world will be enforcing these rules within a couple years. exchanges won't be able to keep running to new jurisdictions for long.

[magneto]

Bitseven just pulled the plug on US residents today.

Things seem to be moving fast. I fear the days on bitmex, bybit etc are numbered.

What could Arther possibly do to stop this, what real recourse does he have? I'm sure he has a few tricks to stall. But I'm sure the other small exchange will buckle and comply.

I don't think anyon truly understands how incredibly few options American's have to buy crypto and the type and leverage etc. Regulators are breakin our legs. Total madness, makes me regret that I don't have close canadian family or friends, I'd use their kyc in a heartbeat.

I think that the trend right now is really something that is US-based, with so many exchanges seemingly closing their doors on US residents.

It's unlikely to become a global phenomenon, in my opinion, because of the fact that countries such as Japan, Malta, etc. now have somewhat of a vested interest when it comes to regulating bitcoin businesses positively, because they're actively gaining revenue from these activities and firms.

Despite all the talks of global regulation, I also highly doubt that one uniform set of restrictions can be put in place against crypto exchanges per se. Unregulated exchanges, as mentioned above, should always exist.

[squatter]

It's unlikely to become a global phenomenon, in my opinion, because of the fact that countries such as Japan, Malta, etc. now have somewhat of a vested interest when it comes to regulating bitcoin businesses positively, because they're actively gaining revenue from these activities and firms.

Japan is a member of the G20. All G20 members have already pledged to implement the recently published FATF rules.

Why do people think Japanese regulation is so great anyway? The FSA has been clamping down on privacy coins as a requisite for licensing, and their self-regulatory agency is prohibiting exchanges from listing them. Now they are taking things even further with new nanny state regulations:

Further, any company even storing cryptocurrency will be considered a “cryptographic asset exchange” and thus required to register and maintain what experts believe will be an expensive license.

“Smaller companies will need abundant funds if more stringent management systems are required. It may be impossible to maintain existing business unless it changes,” said Masahiro Yasu, CEO of ALIS, token-based social media system that will be affected by the change.

The new law, which had been in the works for months, will also limit margin trading in cryptocurrency.

[jseverson]

Despite all the talks of global regulation, I also highly doubt that one uniform set of restrictions can be put in place against crypto exchanges per se. Unregulated exchanges, as mentioned above, should always exist.

They won't necessarily be uniform, but restrictions could be similar, a la global banking. I expect regulation to reach every country eventually, but considering crypto's small size, it'll happen much sooner on certain jurisdictions as others have more pressing issues to prioritize. Exchanges could, in the meantime, choose to set up shop in these places to avoid (or at least postpone getting hit by) the wave.

Unregulated exchanges are always going to exist for sure, but I also expect them to get targeted by regulators once they get large enough. They're also likely going to be ignored by the general public (who view regulations as protection) and would need to cater to a niche audience.

[Theb]

If we are talking about laws then this might take a while because international laws are just some kind of set standard where the country still has some choice to follow the rest or not, still domestic laws are what most follow if we are only talking about that certain country. The tricky part here is if this KYC requirement was passed into law then all the local exchanges that operate internationally might as well require all their users to have KYC which will obviously affect as all.

[magneto]

Despite all the talks of global regulation, I also highly doubt that one uniform set of restrictions can be put in place against crypto exchanges per se. Unregulated exchanges, as mentioned above, should always exist.

Unregulated exchanges are always going to exist for sure, but I also expect them to get targeted by regulators once they get large enough. They're also likely going to be ignored by the general public (who view regulations as protection) and would need to cater to a niche audience.

You raise a very good point.

It'll be a long way to go before any DEXs will fulfill the functions of a centralised exchange, in my opinion, which is why I think that if regulations do tighten in the future, the default thing that people are going to do is to go to newer exchanges that are willing to potentially operate unregulated.

Of course, eventually we'll see them succumb to regulations, if global mandatory KYC was ever going to be a thing. But I think that the profit margins for a new exchange will incentivise a lot of them to pop up so that there will never be a concern where you can't buy BTC without KYC as a consumer, if you are willing to carry a certain amount of risk.

[squatter]

If we are talking about laws then this might take a while because international laws are just some kind of set standard where the country still has some choice to follow the rest or not, still domestic laws are what most follow if we are only talking about that certain country.

The FATF expects countries to begin implementing domestic laws within a year. They'll be reviewing compliance in June 2020. The G20 countries already pledged to implement the rules, so we'll probably see most of them passing laws -- or at least in the process of it -- by then.

Most monitored countries are still noncompliant with existing FATF rules, though. So there will probably be plenty of places where non-KYC exchanges can still set up shop.

The big question then becomes, how will highly compliant and tightly regulated exchanges (like Gemini) deal with noncompliant exchanges? Will they close your account for depositing coins from them? Gemini already prohibits mixing services, for example.