The Lightning Network FAQ

[Wind_FURY]

Casey Rodarmor suggests an Open Source dedicated Dark Market app/TOR plugin with a better UX and to utilize the Lightning Network.

The user experience of existing markets is insanely bad, but in pretty fixable ways. They have insane captchas, insane password / pin / backup password requirements, private messages between buyers and sellers must be encrypted and decrypted out-of-browser using PGP, and payments are made primarily with on-chain Monero payments.

This can be solved by creating dedicated client and backend apps which communicate over tor and are able to hold keys, authenticate in both directions using actual cryptography instead of passwords, encrypt and decrypt private messages without needing to download and upload cyphertext manually, and send and receive using lightning.

I think you could produce something with a literal 10x better user experience.

Lightning is under-explored as a privacy technology. Send privacy is good, while recipient privacy is not great. However, recipients can easily make a self-payment to regain privacy.

https://x.com/rodarmor/status/1820207858090410363

What's everyone's opinion about Casey Rodarmor's idea? Because it's going to be Open Source, the Dark Markets will be standardized and less susceptible to exploits and backdoors.

[BlackHatCoiner]

What's everyone's opinion about Casey Rodarmor's idea? Because it's going to be Open Source, the Dark Markets will be standardized and less susceptible to exploits and backdoors.

I share the same opinion as @maxibitcat:

Why would they prefer dealing with LN channel management instead of just using Monero?

Another thing is micro-payments. I'd bet that darknet market transactions aren't... "micro".

[NotATether]

Another thing is micro-payments. I'd bet that darknet market transactions aren't... "micro".

Macro, actually, with payments from several hundred to several thousands of dollars. Lightning Network is not designed to handle such a thing. Also channel creation continues to be a pain in the ass.

Besides, dark markets are intentionally designed without Javascript support for security reasons. I don't think they care about UX at all. In fact, I think all the complaints that Rodarmor mentioned are actually good things.

[JayJuanGee]

What's everyone's opinion about Casey Rodarmor's idea? Because it's going to be Open Source, the Dark Markets will be standardized and less susceptible to exploits and backdoors.

I share the same opinion as @maxibitcat:

Why would they prefer dealing with LN channel management instead of just using Monero?

To answer maxibitcat - because monero is a shitcoin.

[Wind_FURY]

What's everyone's opinion about Casey Rodarmor's idea? Because it's going to be Open Source, the Dark Markets will be standardized and less susceptible to exploits and backdoors.

I share the same opinion as @maxibitcat:

Why would they prefer dealing with LN channel management instead of just using Monero?

Another thing is micro-payments. I'd bet that darknet market transactions aren't... "micro".

Aren't most of the transactions that happens in the Dark Markets are from retail buyers? LN probably could handle $500.00 Dollar transactions maximum for thousands and thousands of users, no?

Another thing is micro-payments. I'd bet that darknet market transactions aren't... "micro".

Macro, actually, with payments from several hundred to several thousands of dollars. Lightning Network is not designed to handle such a thing. Also channel creation continues to be a pain in the ass.

Besides, dark markets are intentionally designed without Javascript support for security reasons. I don't think they care about UX at all. In fact, I think all the complaints that Rodarmor mentioned are actually good things.

They currently don't care, but if someone built a TOR plugin with better UX like what Casey envisions that's safe, secure, and private enough, I believe they will start to care.

What's everyone's opinion about Casey Rodarmor's idea? Because it's going to be Open Source, the Dark Markets will be standardized and less susceptible to exploits and backdoors.

I share the same opinion as @maxibitcat:

Why would they prefer dealing with LN channel management instead of just using Monero?

To answer maxibitcat - because monero is a shitcoin.

 

[Wind_FURY]

What's that upgrade that would make the transactions for opening/closing Lightning channels indistinct from regular Bitcoin on-chain transactions? Was that Taproot/Schnorr multi-signatures? What's its current state of usage in the Lightning Network?

I believe the developers should have something implemented as soon as possible before the government notices the layer of privacy Lightning gives for its users.

[Cricktor]

...

It's Taproot with Schnorr signatures that allows multisig transaction to appear like normal ones. I still fall short to understand Taproot/Tapscript/Schnorr stuff in detail as so far I barely had to interact with it. Excuse my ignorance but I can't even tell if any of the common Lightning nodes have implemented this magic.

Maybe have a look here: https://medium.com/interdax/what-is-taproot-and-how-will-it-benefit-bitcoin-5c8944eed8da

I closed my few LN channels quite some time ago. For my use cases too much hassle to maintain liquidity and channel balances. Phoenix wallet suits me more, totally personal experience, opinion and use case.

[Wind_FURY]

...

It's Taproot with Schnorr signatures that allows multisig transaction to appear like normal ones. I still fall short to understand Taproot/Tapscript/Schnorr stuff in detail as so far I barely had to interact with it. Excuse my ignorance but I can't even tell if any of the common Lightning nodes have implemented this magic.

Maybe have a look here: https://medium.com/interdax/what-is-taproot-and-how-will-it-benefit-bitcoin-5c8944eed8da

I closed my few LN channels quite some time ago. For my use cases too much hassle to maintain liquidity and channel balances. Phoenix wallet suits me more, totally personal experience, opinion and use case.

That's the upgrade! Lightning payment channels utilize 2-of-2 multisig addresses. Does having the feature of making them look like regular Bitcoin transactions require an upgrade in Lightning too? Or does that happen automatically of it's already available on-chain? 🤔

[Cricktor]

That's the upgrade! Lightning payment channels utilize 2-of-2 multisig addresses. Does having the feature of making them look like regular Bitcoin transactions require an upgrade in Lightning too? Or does that happen automatically of it's already available on-chain? 🤔

Your Lightning node software should handle this, in most cases that's LND or c-Lightning. Don't ask me if both Lightning node softwares do actually have implemented it already. I'm lagging behind current feature status of both. If you do it on the command line or use some fancy interface like Ride The Lighning or similar, all of those "interfaces" talk to LND or c-Lightning to create channels, close them or submit transactions and more.

[Wind_FURY]

That's the upgrade! Lightning payment channels utilize 2-of-2 multisig addresses. Does having the feature of making them look like regular Bitcoin transactions require an upgrade in Lightning too? Or does that happen automatically of it's already available on-chain? 🤔

Your Lightning node software should handle this, in most cases that's LND or c-Lightning. Don't ask me if both Lightning node softwares do actually have implemented it already. I'm lagging behind current feature status of both. If you do it on the command line or use some fancy interface like Ride The Lighning or similar, all of those "interfaces" talk to LND or c-Lightning to create channels, close them or submit transactions and more.

That's actually the question I wanted to be answered. OK, then the developers should have it implemented for the Lightning node/client/software before it can make multi-sig transactions look the same as the normal transactions. 🤔

Does anyone know if that upgrade is already being discussed in their forums/developer's mailing lists? I believe it's going to be the most important upgrade for Lightning, that will also add more benefit to Bitcoin on-chain transactions - a layer of privacy.