The Lightning Network FAQ

[Wind_FURY]

wanted to share with everyone here another interesting article about the lightning network, which was published today by the Kraken exchange

The Lightning Network is a scalability solution built on top of #Bitcoin.

Read our article to learn about:
Benefits of the Lightning Network
History of the network
How Lightning Network works

https://www.kraken.com/learn/lightning-network

Does it say that Jesse Powell be implementing Lightning for Kraken soon, or is it just an article? It’s been years. Exchanges should start becoming some of the main liquidity providers, and client-side UI providers for the Lightning Network, and bring it to a higher point of growth.

[Rath_]

Does it say that Jesse Powell be implementing Lightning for Kraken soon, or is it just an article?

In December, they announced that the Lightning Network support was expected to be available in the first half of 2021. It looks like they are still working on it.

Exchanges should start becoming some of the main liquidity providers, and client-side UI providers for the Lightning Network, and bring it to a higher point of growth.

They probably don't feel any pressure to do so because: 1) The transaction fees have been extremely low for quite some time now. 2) Even if any large exchange implements Lightning late, there still will be a lot of people willing to open a channel with their node.

[DaveF]

Does it say that Jesse Powell be implementing Lightning for Kraken soon, or is it just an article?

In December, they announced that the Lightning Network support was expected to be available in the first half of 2021. It looks like they are still working on it.

Exchanges should start becoming some of the main liquidity providers, and client-side UI providers for the Lightning Network, and bring it to a higher point of growth.

They probably don't feel any pressure to do so because: 1) The transaction fees have been extremely low for quite some time now. 2) Even if any large exchange implements Lightning late, there still will be a lot of people willing to open a channel with their node.

You left out #3 withdrawal fees are a source of profit for exchanges.
https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000767986-Cryptocurrency-withdrawal-fees-and-minimums

Bitcoin    0.00015 BTC (fee)    0.0005 BTC (min withdraw)

So at the moment $9.30 to withdraw. And according to mempool.space and a few others 4 sat/vb will get you into the next block.
And you have to have at least $30 in there to withdraw. How many people will just pay the fee or if they don't have 0.0005BTC trade it for something else (they get the trading fee) and then withdraw that (whatever that coin fee is)

Where if they are doing lightning they can't get away with charging that much. Because, if they do a lot of people will scream.

-Dave

[ndalliard]

Does it say that Jesse Powell be implementing Lightning for Kraken soon, or is it just an article?

In December, they announced that the Lightning Network support was expected to be available in the first half of 2021. It looks like they are still working on it.

i wrote their support an email and they confirm what you said. in my own words: they are working on it and they will support it soonish (whatever soonish means). the support basically said nothing new...

[Rath_]

c-lightning v0.10.2 has been released. You should upgrade your nodes as this update patches the CVE-2021-41592 vulnerability. LND users should also update to v0.13.3-beta.

[n0nce]

c-lightning v0.10.2 has been released. You should upgrade your nodes as this update patches the CVE-2021-41592 vulnerability. LND users should also update to v0.13.3-beta.

How do you recommend to update C-Lightning? I think this is how I did it so far, after having installed by compiling myself and checking out the correct release via git previously.

Code:

cd lightning
git pull
git checkout v0.10.2
./configure
make -j $(nproc)
sudo make install
sudo service lightningd restart

[Rath_]

How do you recommend to update C-Lightning? I think this is how I did it so far, after having installed by compiling myself and checking out the correct release via git previously.

That's also how I have been doing it. This time, I can't compile the update and I am getting the following error ~1 minute after running make.

Code:

/bin/sh: 1: mrkd: not found
make: *** [doc/Makefile:107: doc/lightning-cli.1] Error 127

Edit: It looks like sudo pip3 install mrkd solved the problem. I am not sure why I didn't need it before.

By the way, how is your node n0nce?

[Wind_FURY]

Does it say that Jesse Powell be implementing Lightning for Kraken soon, or is it just an article?

In December, they announced that the Lightning Network support was expected to be available in the first half of 2021. It looks like they are still working on it.

Exchanges should start becoming some of the main liquidity providers, and client-side UI providers for the Lightning Network, and bring it to a higher point of growth.

They probably don't feel any pressure to do so because: 1) The transaction fees have been extremely low for quite some time now. 2) Even if any large exchange implements Lightning late, there still will be a lot of people willing to open a channel with their node.

I believe there will come a point when we will truly sorry for the developers building Lightning, because they might be working veey hard for something that no one really wants. How many years has it been in development? Everyone is throwing money in shitcoin DeFi.

[ndalliard]

Code:

cd lightning
git pull
git checkout v0.10.2
./configure
make -j $(nproc)
sudo make install
sudo service lightningd restart

you don't need the ./configure step if you don't change anything with configure

Code:

/bin/sh: 1: mrkd: not found
make: *** [doc/Makefile:107: doc/lightning-cli.1] Error 127

Edit: It looks like sudo pip3 install mrkd solved the problem. I am not sure why I didn't need it before.

mrkd is used to generate the documentation (manpages) from markdown files and before this release, the generated files were part of the source code. now you need to generate them yourself with mrkd

[n0nce]

How do you recommend to update C-Lightning? I think this is how I did it so far, after having installed by compiling myself and checking out the correct release via git previously.

That's also how I have been doing it.

Alright, thanks!

By the way, how is your node n0nce?

It's running fine now; this node just uses Tor, nothing else, since it's simpler and (in my opinion) safer than exposing personal IP and stuff. Especially since for a while now, I don't get the usual 'new IP every 24h' anymore that I did in the past.

But I had some issues with my Tor config in the beginning. We can connect now, but maybe I'll swap out the drive for a larger one, so in that case it would be better to postpone the process

Code:

/bin/sh: 1: mrkd: not found
make: *** [doc/Makefile:107: doc/lightning-cli.1] Error 127

Edit: It looks like sudo pip3 install mrkd solved the problem. I am not sure why I didn't need it before.

mrkd is used to generate the documentation (manpages) from markdown files and before this release, the generated files were part of the source code. now you need to generate them yourself with mrkd

Is is possible to just not generate docs using a compile flag? Seen that before but not sure if it's supported here. I usually only install pips into virtualenv's; not sure if this would work here if I activate the environment before running make.

[psycodad]

Code:

/bin/sh: 1: mrkd: not found
make: *** [doc/Makefile:107: doc/lightning-cli.1] Error 127

Edit: It looks like sudo pip3 install mrkd solved the problem. I am not sure why I didn't need it before.

mrkd is used to generate the documentation (manpages) from markdown files and before this release, the generated files were part of the source code. now you need to generate them yourself with mrkd

Is is possible to just not generate docs using a compile flag? Seen that before but not sure if it's supported here. I usually only install pips into virtualenv's; not sure if this would work here if I activate the environment before running make.

I wondered the same, especially after I noticed that the mrkd I get from pip3 install mrkd in Devuan/Debian 9 doesn't work with the installed Python 3.5.3.
After some fruitless digging through the Makefile and configure (for something like --no-docs) I gave up and just did:

Code:

sudo echo -e '#!/bin/sh\ntouch $2\nexit 0' > /usr/local/bin/mrkd
sudo chmod 755 /usr/local/bin/mrkd
make && sudo make install-program

This whole mrkd thing is a unnecessary annoyance IMO.

[Rath_]

We can connect now, but maybe I'll swap out the drive for a larger one, so in that case it would be better to postpone the process

I don't mind if your node is offline for a couple of days after we open a channel. We can do whatever you are more comfortable with. Would you like to try opening a dual-funded channel with me? I could contribute at least 1M satoshi to the channel.

[n0nce]

Is is possible to just not generate docs using a compile flag? Seen that before but not sure if it's supported here. I usually only install pips into virtualenv's; not sure if this would work here if I activate the environment before running make.

I wondered the same, especially after I noticed that the mrkd I get from pip3 install mrkd in Devuan/Debian 9 doesn't work with the installed Python 3.5.3.
After some fruitless digging through the Makefile and configure (for something like --no-docs) I gave up and just did:

Code:

sudo echo -e '#!/bin/sh\ntouch $2\nexit 0' > /usr/local/bin/mrkd
sudo chmod 755 /usr/local/bin/mrkd
make && sudo make install-program

This whole mrkd thing is a unnecessary annoyance IMO.

I love your solution, it's the kind of hacky thing I like to do as well!
Since the syntax would be $ mrkd my-file.1.md my-file.1, your shell script just creates an empty file with the correct name so c-lightning is happy about the file's existence and the compilation runs smoothly! I don't use the manpage of it anyway, so that will be fine.

We can connect now, but maybe I'll swap out the drive for a larger one, so in that case it would be better to postpone the process

I don't mind if your node is offline for a couple of days after we open a channel. We can do whatever you are more comfortable with. Would you like to try opening a dual-funded channel with me? I could contribute at least 1M satoshi to the channel.

Yeah, I'm not sure / confident about the whole backup & restore of the channel states and all, though.. I would just get the new drive, close my channels and reinstall (I have a guide now, right ) in the worst case, so let's open a channel after that. As for the capacity, 1M is not the amount I'd put on this old & worn out drive either, to be completely honest. Also one reason for swapping to a new SSD..

[Rath_]

Yeah, I'm not sure / confident about the whole backup & restore of the channel states and all, though..

There's a great entry in the documentation about various backup practices. You will probably end up using the backup plugin with a remote directory or some removable drive.

I would just get the new drive, close my channels and reinstall

You could simply copy your hsm_secret and lightningd.sqlite3 files to your new node. This way, you wouldn't have to close your channels. Just make sure to copy lightnind.sqlite3 while your node is not running and don't turn it on afterwards.

[Wind_FURY]

OP, another wallet for Lightning to include in your list. It’s non-custodial, https://blixtwallet.github.io/

I haven’t tried, or downloaded it, but it claims to be a wallet that focuses on good UX/UI for usability, and for users who want to try the Lightning Network for the first time.

[Rath_]

I haven’t tried, or downloaded it, but it claims to be a wallet that focuses on good UX/UI for usability, and for users who want to try the Lightning Network for the first time.

I have actually tried it out some time ago and I really liked that it supports keysend payments. Thanks for reminding me about it; I will add it to the list.

By the way, in case some of you missed it, I created The Lightning Network node experience thread in which I and a few other members shared our statistics and feelings about running a Lightning Network node.

[DaveF]

So the other day one of my nodes had an issue and I shut it down:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5369431.msg58486063#msg58486063

Then a couple of posts later @Rath_ did point out that you could tweak the config files of both LND and c-lightning to change the lock times that you create and accept. I knew that but never really thought about it. We should probably come up with a list of "things you might not want to leave at default" that can be discussed.  Timelock / fees / min and max channel size /

-Dave

[LoyceV]

Today, I wanted to fund my Phoenix Wallet. An on-chain deposit takes 1% (and a minimum of 10,000 sat) in fees to open a new channel. Since I already have open channels with sufficient incoming capacity, I found the best solution to be CoinPlaza.it: A 2 mBTC (the minimum) on-chain deposit results in 1.998 mBTC LN funds. Including on-chain fees, I saved over 95% compared to a direct deposit to Phoenix.

You can do the same (without an account) from FixedFloat.com, which has a lower minimum amount (but fees are higher).

[n0nce]

Today, I wanted to fund my Phoenix Wallet. An on-chain deposit takes 1% (and a minimum of 10,000 sat) in fees to open a new channel. Since I already have open channels with sufficient incoming capacity, I found the best solution to be CoinPlaza.it: A 2 mBTC (the minimum) on-chain deposit results in 1.998 mBTC LN funds. Including on-chain fees, I saved over 95% compared to a direct deposit to Phoenix.

You can do the same (without an account) from FixedFloat.com, which has a lower minimum amount (but fees are higher).

+1 recommendation for FixedFloat; also suited for e.g. cashing out on an exchange with lower fees (in fiat terms) than cashing out BTC; withdraw cheapo coin to FixedFloat and instant swap it to on-chain or Lightning Bitcoin.
However, I should definitely try CoinPlaza for larger amounts. Lower fees are always appreciated!

[LoyceV]

+1 recommendation for FixedFloat; also suited for e.g. cashing out on an exchange with lower fees (in fiat terms) than cashing out BTC; withdraw cheapo coin to FixedFloat and instant swap it to on-chain or Lightning Bitcoin.

That's my preferred route indeed: withdrawing small amounts straight to LN. $30 withdrawal fees are so anti Bitcoin.

I should definitely try CoinPlaza for larger amounts. Lower fees are always appreciated!

Both exchangers have their pros and cons, switching sometimes gets a better deal. BestChange.com gives many more exchangers.
Note that I wouldn't trust them with any substantial amounts.