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Author Topic: Pre fork BTC wallet split  (Read 350 times)
bitbapif
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June 29, 2019, 09:15:54 PM
Merited by vapourminer (3), Foxpup (2), LoyceV (2), joniboini (2), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #1

Hello  fellow bitcoiners. I want  to  divide and sent my BTC to 2 new addresses but do not want lose my BCH and BSV during this process.
Can I safely send BTC to my new addresses ( they are 2 addresses derived from my new seed  ) and when old BTC address will be empty send all BCH to newly generated BCH address and then send all BSV to my new BSV address.
I want to use these programs to make transfers:

BTC: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum https://electrum.org/
BCH: https://github.com/Electron-Cash/Electron-Cash https://electroncash.org/
BSV: https://github.com/electrumsv/electrumsv https://electrumsv.io/

Reason why i want to do BTC transfer first is because i trust electrum wallet and BTC obviously is most valuable. I am not sure if I can divide BTC and sent it  to  2 different addresses or  I must send all BTC to new address first and only then divide it and send to 2 addresses.

Thanks in advance
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June 29, 2019, 09:31:28 PM
Merited by dbshck (4), joniboini (4), Foxpup (3), vapourminer (1)
 #2

BSV doesn't have replay protection. I'm not sure if that also gives a problem when you send the BTC (I would guess not, but that's only a guess).
But when you send BCH, BSV will probably move to the BCH address too. An easy solution is to get a small amount of after-fork-BCH that only exists on the BCH chain, and include that into your transaction so that it can't exist on the BSV chain.

If this is confusing: don't rush things! When in doubt, ask first Smiley And don't give anyone your private keys.

Last: don't forget Bitcoin Gold, it's still worth a few bucks.



I wouldn't trust github anymore, only use the real electrum.org. There have been fakes, and I'm not sure which one is real on github.

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June 29, 2019, 10:21:34 PM
 #3

Last: don't forget Bitcoin Gold, it's still worth a few bucks.

There are other forks which may still be worth claiming, as they have support in decent wallets such as coinomi and some not so shady exchanges... BCD  for example can be claimed in changelly, pretty easy and secure.

I would definetly move the BTC first. Then I would claim BCH, then i would worry about BSV, then BTG, BCD and so on... go claiming the more valuable forks first, and in the end you will have private keys with a lot of shit forks, which can all be claimed and there is no risk of losing any valuable coin.

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June 29, 2019, 10:27:58 PM
Merited by joniboini (4), LoyceV (1)
 #4

BSV doesn't have replay protection. I'm not sure if that also gives a problem when you send the BTC (I would guess not, but that's only a guess).
But when you send BCH, BSV will probably move to the BCH address too. An easy solution is to get a small amount of after-fork-BCH that only exists on the BCH chain, and include that into your transaction so that it can't exist on the BSV chain.

BCH implemented replay protection from BTC from the very beginning of the fork with BTC. Neither BCH nor BSV coins will move if you spend the BTC. However, as you stated, BCH and BSV don't have replay protection against each other. So this will be a more delicate operation. (I think that kind of sucks. But Nakamoto consensus and all of that jazz.  Roll Eyes)

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June 29, 2019, 11:55:11 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #5

An easy solution is to get a small amount of after-fork-BCH that only exists on the BCH chain, and include that into your transaction so that it can't exist on the BSV chain.
yes, this is the best way to ensure successful splitting of BCH/BSV fork
buy a small amount of BCH on an exchange and send it to your BCH wallet
then make a transaction with full balance of your BCH to a new address to complete the split process

note: you lose a bit of privacy when consolidating utxo from multiple addresses

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June 30, 2019, 03:41:32 AM
 #6

BSV doesn't have replay protection. I'm not sure if that also gives a problem when you send the BTC (I would guess not, but that's only a guess).
But when you send BCH, BSV will probably move to the BCH address too. An easy solution is to get a small amount of after-fork-BCH that only exists on the BCH chain, and include that into your transaction so that it can't exist on the BSV chain.

regarding this i have to say by the time that split fiasco happened, there were a couple of faucets which were giving away dust amounts mined from new blocks that people could use for splitting. sites like http://forkfaucet.cash/ but it doesn't seem to work anymore, i didn't search about it that much but there may still be faucets that do that. you may want to ask BCH bag holders like on /r/btc they may know more and have coins to send you.

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July 15, 2019, 11:25:37 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #7

First I want to thanks all people who replay to my question. So far I generated new seed with my custom words in offline Electrum wallet.  Now I need to split my pre-fork BTC to three addresses derived from that seed. To be completely honest  I am very scared to do it and mess up things. I have 3 scenarios and I am not sure which one to use.


1a.  Send some BTC to first new address and see if this works ok. But I don’t know if that a good idea since rest of my bitcoin will be send back to my current address ( apparently that things works in bitcoin utxo) and even it has replay  protection from forks am not sure that this is a good idea. Then send sequentially BTC to 2 aditional addresses 
1b. Send ALL my BTC to first address from my seed  ( check double, triple if address is right) and then after many confirmations split them sending to 2 additional addresses. Not the bet solution regarding anonymity and fees but probably most reliable.
1c.  I seen that Electrum support send to multiple addresses at once and even manage to make that kind of transaction in testnet ( without leaving any dust ) but I am not brave enough to do it with my money.
2. Regarding method of transaction I want to use Electrum offline wallet to sign transaction and online watch only wallet to broadcast it. ( I tested this in testnet and am think I can do it reliable)
3. As of transfer  forks can I do it later or even leave them as it is until I research things further. Huh?

Thanks in advance
 
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July 15, 2019, 11:55:37 AM
Last edit: July 15, 2019, 12:06:06 PM by BitCryptex
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1), LoyceV (1)
 #8

1c.  I seen that Electrum support send to multiple addresses at once and even manage to make that kind of transaction in testnet ( without leaving any dust ) but I am not brave enough to do it with my money.

This would be the the best choice. There is nothing to be afraid of as long as you control both addresses. Press Send and fill the Pay to box like this:

Code:
Address1, amount
Address2, amount

Don't forget about comma between the address and the amount and make sure to enter Address2 in a separate line. Don't overpay for a transaction. Check the current recommended transaction fee here (look at sat/byte)

3. As of transfer  forks can I do it later or even leave them as it is until I research things further. Huh?

Yes, you don't have to spend them right after moving BTC.

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July 15, 2019, 12:51:36 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), malevolent (1), ETFbitcoin (1), LoyceV (1)
 #9

You can't really mess up a lot.

The most important thing is to transfer your coins from the highest to the lowest value. This means BTC first -> BCH -> ...

Afterwards, if you always send funds to an address you own, you don't have to worry about your transaction being replayed.
Even if someone is going to take your transaction and replay it to the other chain (e.g. from BCH to BSV), the coins will be sent to your address.

Such an replay attack can only be 'dangerous' if you send funds to a different person, because that person can replay the transactio and also receive funds from the other chain.
But since this is not the case here, you don't have to worry about an replay attack.



I wouldn't trust github anymore, only use the real electrum.org. There have been fakes, and I'm not sure which one is real on github.

https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum is the one and only real github repository from electrum.

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July 15, 2019, 02:59:54 PM
Last edit: July 15, 2019, 04:47:18 PM by LoyceV
 #10

Even if someone is going to take your transaction and replay it to the other chain (e.g. from BCH to BSV), the coins will be sent to your address.
From what I understood (and I'm far from an expert on Forkcoins), the transaction can happen on both chains without someone replaying it "manually". But you're confusing me now Tongue

If (after moving your BTC and waiting for confirmations) your BSV moves too when you move your BCH, I can help you by sending you $0.01 worth of BCH. This was split already, and doesn't exist on the BSV chain. Then, you send all your BCH including my BCH-dust to a new address. This new transaction can't exist on the BSV chain, so your coins are split.

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July 15, 2019, 04:39:18 PM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1), LoyceV (1), BitCryptex (1)
 #11

From what I understood (and I'm far from an expert on Forkcoins), the transaction can happen on both chains without someone replaying it "manually". But you're confusing me now Tongue

Since both networks are completely separated, one entity has to explicitly relay the transaction (taken from the BCH network) to at least one BSV node.

If noone is doing this, the transaction will only be relayed in the BCH network, never reaching any BSV node and therefore also not being confirmed in the BSV network.

Around the date of the split, there was at least one person taking transactions from the one network and relaying it to the other one to create confusion. Don't know whether this is still the case.


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July 28, 2019, 06:00:45 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #12

Even if someone is going to take your transaction and replay it to the other chain (e.g. from BCH to BSV), the coins will be sent to your address.
From what I understood (and I'm far from an expert on Forkcoins), the transaction can happen on both chains without someone replaying it "manually". But you're confusing me now Tongue
If there is no replay protection, a transaction is valid on both chains provided both inputs exist on both chains. If you use inputs A, B and C in transaction X on BCH, the transaction will be valid on BSV until one of the inputs A B or C are spent on the BSV chain. Alternatively, the transaction will not be valid on the BSV chain if A B or C was never a valid input on BSV because they can be traced to a transaction that successfully split coins between the chains, or can be traced to the block reward of a post split block. 

There is no requirement that transaction must be replayed "manually"; I think most replayed transaction are replayed using some automated means, probably someone with both BCH and BSV nodes who checked if one transaction received on one chain is valid on the other, and if so broadcasting it to the other chain.

If you move your BCH coins to a new address, and don't move your BSV coins to a different address, the coins could possibly move in the future if the transaction is not replayed immediately.
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August 05, 2019, 07:25:45 PM
 #13

You can't really mess up a lot.

The most important thing is to transfer your coins from the highest to the lowest value. This means BTC first -> BCH -> ...

Afterwards, if you always send funds to an address you own, you don't have to worry about your transaction being replayed.
Even if someone is going to take your transaction and replay it to the other chain (e.g. from BCH to BSV), the coins will be sent to your address.

Such an replay attack can only be 'dangerous' if you send funds to a different person, because that person can replay the transactio and also receive funds from the other chain.
But since this is not the case here, you don't have to worry about an replay attack.



I wouldn't trust github anymore, only use the real electrum.org. There have been fakes, and I'm not sure which one is real on github.

https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum is the one and only real github repository from electrum.

In my opinion, you can mess up a lot.

1) There's tons of crapware taking advantage of the assorted forkcoin clients as "free money" is too tempting to not get the thing done and dump said forkcoins
2) You can ruin your privacy when you are moving your BTC to import the private keys into the BCH/BSV clusterfuck

In order to avoid 1, use an VM, ideally use a different device, and download the official full client. Double check checksums.
In order to avoid 2, use Coin Control to properly move inputs.

I have always been torn about forks. It is our duty to dump the shitcoins to 0, however it is just insanity to move your entire f*cking stack if you have tons of different transactions and want to avoid 2). Result, I haven't even sold any of the shitcoins yet. Doesn't seem that I need to, they continue tanking as predicted.




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August 06, 2019, 04:48:35 AM
 #14

In order to avoid 1, use an VM, ideally use a different device, and download the official full client. Double check checksums.

these are copies of bitcoin we are talking about which means they are copying bitcoin's blockchain hence when you download their "official full client" you will have to download the full blockchain too. i think it was 100-150 GB in 2017 when they copied. and the problem is that sometimes there aren't that many shitcoinNodes to connect to and your download would be much slower.

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August 06, 2019, 05:33:59 PM
 #15

In order to avoid 2, use Coin Control to properly move inputs.

It's annoying option when you have lots of inputs & you want to sell the forked coins quickly. You're forced to create a transaction for an input & request new address on exchange on each transaction (otherwise you gonna send all your inputs to same address, which totally break your privacy)

In order to avoid 1, use an VM, ideally use a different device, and download the official full client. Double check checksums.

these are copies of bitcoin we are talking about which means they are copying bitcoin's blockchain hence when you download their "official full client" you will have to download the full blockchain too. i think it was 100-150 GB in 2017 when they copied. and the problem is that sometimes there aren't that many shitcoinNodes to connect to and your download would be much slower.

It's around 126721 MB according to blockchain.com on 2018/08/01, excluding chainstate and txindex (if you enable it).
Additionally, you can't simply copy blocks file because few forks made major change such as 1 BTC = 10 BCD

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August 13, 2019, 08:51:48 PM
 #16

In order to avoid 1, use an VM, ideally use a different device, and download the official full client. Double check checksums.

these are copies of bitcoin we are talking about which means they are copying bitcoin's blockchain hence when you download their "official full client" you will have to download the full blockchain too. i think it was 100-150 GB in 2017 when they copied. and the problem is that sometimes there aren't that many shitcoinNodes to connect to and your download would be much slower.

You can figure out the number of blkXXXXX.dat in which the fork occurred and stopped being shared with the original Bitcoin and thus copy-paste those files within the forkcoin client, just do not reuse the chainstate files. This is what I reckon I did back then when I attempted to dump Bcash became too lazy to deal with the problem described above involving the nightmare of sorting out inputs and outputs to not break your privacy.




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