Reminder: Goldbugs are a joke

[pereira4]

Gold finally gets a little pump after years of stagnation and underperforming when it should have been performing against the ongoing fiat clusterfucks all over, and goldbugs start giving "told you so" lessons.

Whenever you see a goldbug giving you a 101 on economy and investments lesson (the same goldbugs which told you to buy gold instead of "that Bitcoin scam" since 2012) show them this pic which exposes the mother of all goldbugs:



Unbelievable that this guy and their followers still have the audacity to go around lecturing Bitcoin holders. They should be quietly hiding under a rock at best.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Unbelievable, and I agree with you 100%.  I had to check the gold price after reading this thread, as I don't really follow the metals markets anymore.  It's at $1399, which is somewhat of a pop I agree, but I don't think it's anything anyone should be pissing their pants over. 

Gold and silver have been the worst investments (IMO) since 2011 when they both came crashing down to earth.  If you'd invested in the stock market or in bitcoin at that time, you'd have done quite well for yourself.  But yep, the same goldbugs keep saying the same things over and over again like an idiotic mantra.

When I check precious metals prices, I use coinflation.com, and on that site there are always pro-metals articles.  Always, and they're all the same, with the same arguments for owning gold/silver, and they're all bullshit.  If these people are anti-crypto, they're even more idiotic.

[figmentofmyass]

Unbelievable, and I agree with you 100%.  I had to check the gold price after reading this thread, as I don't really follow the metals markets anymore.  It's at $1399, which is somewhat of a pop I agree, but I don't think it's anything anyone should be pissing their pants over. 

Gold and silver have been the worst investments (IMO) since 2011 when they both came crashing down to earth.  If you'd invested in the stock market or in bitcoin at that time, you'd have done quite well for yourself.  But yep, the same goldbugs keep saying the same things over and over again like an idiotic mantra.

isn't that sort of cherry picking time periods though?

they were fantastic investments between 2001 and 2011. silver rose more than 1100% over that period. very few assets generate returns this strong.

precious metals are much slower moving than bitcoin. it's important to keep that in mind. if we're comparing to bitcoin, then the post-2011 period seen in gold could easily be like the post-2013 period in bitcoin. i see the beginnings of a new bull market when i look at the gold chart today.

[gentlemand]

I don't really get how metal fans don't emphasize the countless ways in which their pet's price is rigged. You'd think they'd want to highlight that as an example of what they're up against.

Crypto fans are pretty smug about this not being the case for them but I have no doubt at all They will attempt the same thing. I only hope crypto's unique qualities are enough to resist it.

[hatshepsut93]

Gold finally gets a little pump after years of stagnation and underperforming when it should have been performing against the ongoing fiat clusterfucks all over, and goldbugs start giving "told you so" lessons.

What clusterfucks are you talking about? Stocks are booming for many years already, while some people are saying that recession is coming soon almost every day. So, no wonder that gold struggles now, and goldbugs are indeed a joke, because how emotional they are about investing. Good investors evaluate potential investments objectively, without letting their personal beliefs interfere with this process, and it's a problem that can plague any investor, not just goldbugs.

[1Referee]

I don't really get how metal fans don't emphasize the countless ways in which their pet's price is rigged. You'd think they'd want to highlight that as an example of what they're up against.

Gold bugs are deluded mostly. They keep talking shit about central banks and whatnot, but the same entities that they want to see bust are buying Gold like there is no tomorrow.  

I watched a recent video where a Gold bug was talking about how it would be a good time to cash out some profits now the Gold price has seen a meteoric rise in the last weeks. I couldn't do anything but laugh the whole time. Their meteoric rise of 10% is a fart for Bitcoin. Imagine what would happen if Gold would go up 25% more, these guys will probably dump their entire metal stash.  

[TheCoinGrabber]

Okay, I've never invested in metals but from what I've seen they don't really move as much as bitcoin prices. If I only have a limited amount of funds I can use for investments, then I'd definitely go for something that will outpace it.

And what do their holders do anyway when there's a rise? Do they just dump all their cache like people do with their stocks?

[Kakmakr]

It is one of my favourite pass times to visit the Gold bug forums and then to post something clever about Bitcoin. If you want to see a cluster fuck... then do the same... they hate it. The truth hurts most, if you expose their lies and that happens frequently. 

I have been banned from several of these forums and most excuses was posting "spam" ….so anything related to Bitcoin on a Gold forum is classified as Spam.   

Disclaimer : I have some Gold investments as part of my portfolio, but it is relatively small. 

[gentlemand]

I have been banned from several of these forums and most excuses was posting "spam" ….so anything related to Bitcoin on a Gold forum is classified as Spam.   

Are gold fanatics any more welcome here? I can see why they'd give a Bitcoin fan the boot. They're there to discuss their shininess. I don't have negative feelings about metals but I've no desire to own any beyond having a lump as a paperweight, and I may as well buy some of the fool's variety and save a load of money.

[BitHodler]

Peter Schiff is smart and a man with a plan. He uses his authoritative position to convince people to buy spot gold while most of his exposure consists of stocks of gold miners.

For every 1% that gold increases in value, these stocks go up like 2-3%. In an interview he even admitted that these stocks account for the main part of his portfolio, which just points out how hes only driven by greed.

He knows that gold will not reach $5-10k unless the dollar undergoes hyperinflation. He's just trying to pump his stocks because they function as a leveraged investment tool during actual spot movements.

[Kakmakr]

I have been banned from several of these forums and most excuses was posting "spam" ….so anything related to Bitcoin on a Gold forum is classified as Spam.   

Are gold fanatics any more welcome here? I can see why they'd give a Bitcoin fan the boot. They're there to discuss their shininess. I don't have negative feelings about metals but I've no desire to own any beyond having a lump as a paperweight, and I may as well buy some of the fool's variety and save a load of money.

Well not all of them are invested into physical Gold... a lot of them only have a piece of paper that promises them that they own that percentage of Gold somewhere in a vault.    <That is actually the biggest flaw in most of their arguments, because they say Bitcoin is not a physical thing, but they invest in digital numbers on a Ledger that might or might not exist somewhere in a vault.> 

They trust centralized entities with their wealth and they trust that the digital entry next to their name would guarantee them ownership of that so-called asset/commodity.    Most of them have never even saw the physical Gold in those vaults... they just trust that it is there. 

[pereira4]

Gold finally gets a little pump after years of stagnation and underperforming when it should have been performing against the ongoing fiat clusterfucks all over, and goldbugs start giving "told you so" lessons.

What clusterfucks are you talking about? Stocks are booming for many years already, while some people are saying that recession is coming soon almost every day. So, no wonder that gold struggles now, and goldbugs are indeed a joke, because how emotional they are about investing. Good investors evaluate potential investments objectively, without letting their personal beliefs interfere with this process, and it's a problem that can plague any investor, not just goldbugs.

The entire market is obviously rigged. When you can pump stocks by printing money you don't get a clear view of what's going on. The metals market are also rigged. Spoofing in future markets is an ongoing thing. When JP morgan's ass was saved when they did the wrong trade on silver back on 2012 which resulted on Blythe Masters being executed.
They meet in chatrooms / telegram and manipulate prices, this is no crazy conspiracy theory. Obviously this is happening in all markets to some extent including Bitcoin but with the difference being that with Bitcoin it's the only thing you can know and audit to be strictly limited in amount so any Maddof scheme attemps to disturb real price discovery are short-lived.

[coolcoinz]

I still find gold and silver interesting and worth having but if you compare these two charts you can see how bitcoin took in gold refugees in 2017 or maybe it's better to say it ripped a hole in gold's value. You can see a sharp drop on the gold chart and a nice big FOMO candle on bitcoin at the same time. Some gold holders got bored after 3 years of waiting on gold to go back up, saw bitcoin rising and sold to jump on the moon rocket. I bet that it will happen again if Bitcoin breaks 20k, gold will go even lower.

[BrewMaster]

Peter Schiff is smart and a man with a plan. He uses his authoritative position to convince people to buy spot gold while most of his exposure consists of stocks of gold miners.

For every 1% that gold increases in value, these stocks go up like 2-3%. In an interview he even admitted that these stocks account for the main part of his portfolio, which just points out how hes only driven by greed.

He knows that gold will not reach $5-10k unless the dollar undergoes hyperinflation. He's just trying to pump his stocks because they function as a leveraged investment tool during actual spot movements.

what most people forget is that whenever someone keeps publicly giving investment advice they are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. they have a benefit in what they are saying and that benefit isn't something that is going to come to them in 2 years as they encourage others, it will be that day and week.

[hatshepsut93]

The entire market is obviously rigged. When you can pump stocks by printing money you don't get a clear view of what's going on. The metals market are also rigged. Spoofing in future markets is an ongoing thing. When JP morgan's ass was saved when they did the wrong trade on silver back on 2012 which resulted on Blythe Masters being executed.

People are saying the same thing about Bitcoin, that banks/governments can print money and buy it, that futures are used to manipulate the price. People are talking about whales and manipulators in Bitcoin every day.

They meet in chatrooms / telegram and manipulate prices, this is no crazy conspiracy theory. Obviously this is happening in all markets to some extent including Bitcoin but with the difference being that with Bitcoin it's the only thing you can know and audit to be strictly limited in amount so any Maddof scheme attemps to disturb real price discovery are short-lived.

Everything is a [conspiracy] theory until there is evidence. Manipulation, insider trading and other illegal practices happen all the time, on any market, but it doesn't mean that the whole market is rigged, especially if the market is huge.

[gentlemand]

Well not all of them are invested into physical Gold... a lot of them only have a piece of paper that promises them that they own that percentage of Gold somewhere in a vault.    <That is actually the biggest flaw in most of their arguments, because they say Bitcoin is not a physical thing, but they invest in digital numbers on a Ledger that might or might not exist somewhere in a vault.>  

They trust centralized entities with their wealth and they trust that the digital entry next to their name would guarantee them ownership of that so-called asset/commodity.    Most of them have never even saw the physical Gold in those vaults... they just trust that it is there.  

If you spend all day tapping away about how corrupt everything is and have nothing but an IOU to cuddle at night then you're no better than anyone else.

Can't be arsed to check a gold forum but I presume such people are tracked down and forced to post leg spreading photos for being maggots.

[pereira4]

The entire market is obviously rigged. When you can pump stocks by printing money you don't get a clear view of what's going on. The metals market are also rigged. Spoofing in future markets is an ongoing thing. When JP morgan's ass was saved when they did the wrong trade on silver back on 2012 which resulted on Blythe Masters being executed.

People are saying the same thing about Bitcoin, that banks/governments can print money and buy it, that futures are used to manipulate the price. People are talking about whales and manipulators in Bitcoin every day.

They meet in chatrooms / telegram and manipulate prices, this is no crazy conspiracy theory. Obviously this is happening in all markets to some extent including Bitcoin but with the difference being that with Bitcoin it's the only thing you can know and audit to be strictly limited in amount so any Maddof scheme attemps to disturb real price discovery are short-lived.

Everything is a [conspiracy] theory until there is evidence. Manipulation, insider trading and other illegal practices happen all the time, on any market, but it doesn't mean that the whole market is rigged, especially if the market is huge.

There is evidence of manipulation everywhere. Just with JP morgan, here is a nice list of their "practices":

In October 2018, the U.S. Treasury imposed a $5.3 billion fine in a settlement with JPMorgan Chase for the violation of Cuban Assets Control Regulations, Iranian sanctions and Weapons of Mass Destruction sanctions 87 times. Back then, the U.S. Treasury also said it had found the bank violated sanctions on narcotics and Syria, when it processed 85 transactions and maintained accounts for six sanctioned individuals.

In December 2018, JPMorgan Chase agreed to pay $135 million to settle Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) allegations that it mishandled U.S. securities that represent shares of foreign companies, the latest bank fined in an industry crackdown on the practice. The bank improperly provided what's known as American depository receipts (ADR) to brokers when neither the brokers nor their clients held shares in foreign companies that were required to support such transactions.

Again in December 2018, the Hong Kong Monetary Authority (HKMA) said on Friday that it had fined the Hong Kong branch of JPMorgan Chase $1.60 million and reprimanded it for breaching anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist financing rules. An investigation by the HKMA had found that between April 2012 and February 2014 JPMorgan Hong Kong contravened six provisions of the anti-money laundering and anti-terrorist financing rules.

In January 2017, the Indonesian government suspended ties with JPMorgan Chase after the bank's research analysts issued a negative report on the country and stopped using the bank for bond issuance. The ban on the U.S. investment bank was lifted and the Indonesian government commissioned JPMorgan Chase to issue bonds on May 2.

In 2016, an investigation by U.S. authorities found out that the JPMorgan Chase hired children of Chinese authorities from 2006 to 2013 in order to do jobs in China. The bank had to pay a $264 million fine to settle claims that its hiring violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA).

In 2014, JPMorgan Chase agreed to pay over $2 billion for failing to alert federal courts about the largest Ponzi scheme fraud in U.S. history, the Bernie Madoff scandal. The bank had to pay over $1 billion to settle criminal charges, millions to settle civil claims by Madoff's victims and millions to be paid to the Treasury Department.

Serving as Madoff's primary bank for more than two decades, JPMorgan had a unique window into his scheme. In a document outlining the bank's wrongdoing, prosecutors had argued that "the Madoff Ponzi scheme was conducted almost exclusively" through various accounts held at JPMorgan. A fraudulent investor, Bernie Madoff was estimated to have swindled nearly $65 billion into his own accounts.

In 2013, the American investment bank was fined $13 billion for its manipulations on the quality of the mortgages it had been selling to investors in the runup to the 2008 financial crisis. The deal included a $4 billion consumer relief package, and a $4 billion settlement with the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which oversees government mortgage financing companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Again in 2013, the bank had to pay $410 million in fines for its manipulation of the American power market in California and the Midwest, as an investigation by the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) revealed. JPMorgan Ventures Energy Corp, the commodity trading unit of the bank, agreed to pay a civil penalty of $285 million and disgorge $125 million for "manipulative bidding strategies" from September 2010 through November 2012.

In 2010, JPMorgan Chase was fined $49 million by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) of the U.K. for failing to protect billions of dollars of client money over almost seven years between November 2002 and July 2009.

And this is only what is in the clear, imagine all the moves that don't get reported. The main point here was to show how Bitcoin cannot be manipulated long term due it's auditable, open source, strictly limited in amount nature.

[angel55]

I agree that most goldbugs are really insane about how much they think the price will increase.  However gold is still worth buying and most wealthy people keep a percentage of their net worth in precious metals.  Gold has been valuable for thousands of years and with that type of track record it is worth buying.

[Linkkoin]

I agree that most goldbugs are really insane about how much they think the price will increase.  However gold is still worth buying and most wealthy people keep a percentage of their net worth in precious metals.  Gold has been valuable for thousands of years and with that type of track record it is worth buying.

On the other hand, if you check the inflation rates (and by it, we do mean as well the cost of food/things) it is not a superb form of investing with huge rates of profits.

[MTL4]

Anyone promoting any asset relentlessly either doesn't understand markets very well or they are profiting from the rise in that asset in some way (such as goldbugs like Schiff).  It doesn't matter if you're talking about art, real estate, metals or crypto, they all rise and fall based on their perceived value.  Rare buttons could become more valuable that bitcoins if everyone agreed that they held immense value, it's really all just perception.  Both gold and bitcoin have risen again recently for technical (price breakout) reasons.  Some assets in the market get value from their use while others may be more primarily a store of value.  As an asset Bitcoin primarily benefits from two main advantages to create it's value: 1) it can circumvent capital controls because it's easy to transmit and 2) its relative rarity creates a store of value which allows it to be easily exchanged for other currencies/assets.  Blockchain is another benefit but in terms of market cap very few people can wrap their head around how that works so it's a relatively small part of the value currently.  So if the modern markets since the last crash had not been distorted beyond repair by central banks (and greedy governments with endless deficits) trying to stop the business cycle, then the reality is that cryptos would not likely have grown nearly as fast as they did.  As the Cryptos markets mature they too will not be immune to the distortions of the markets (think highly leveraged derivatives).  The other issue is that making the supply fixed means it will likely function more like a commodity than money (since money must allow for population expansion or it becomes deflationary).  In any case cryptos have solved some very difficult problems and for that their recent value has been greatly rewarded.