buying bitcoin is like immigrating to a new country

[franklin2058]

It seems nobody knows how many whales are out there, these whales maybe extremely selfish. Therefore, it is like a country with UNKNOWN Gini coefficient and UNKNOWN leaders, therefore very UNCLEAR economic future. In other words, it is very difficult to predict its future.

From what I understand, if we consider in the near future, even if the scaling problem are completely solved, bitcoin may still fail because reasons list above in terms of wealth distribution. If you buy bitcoin now, it is like immigrating to a new country. Never underestimate the possibility that bitcoin may go to zero. Do NOT be too confident with bitcoin and put all your money in it.

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[Coyster]

It seems nobody knows how many whales are out there, these whales maybe extremely selfish

That's if there are any actually, and even if they do exist, they can only manipulate the price for a short period of time, not totally run it down to zero as you claim possible.

Therefore, it is like a country with UNKNOWN Gini coefficient and UNKNOWN leaders, therefore very UNCLEAR economic future. In other words, it is very difficult to predict its future

Bitcoin cannot even be likened to a country in any way possible, this network is decentralized, no one can control it, there are no leaders(whales) and it's future seems bright judging by how it's doom has been predicted time and again, yet failed.

Do NOT be too confident with bitcoin and put all your money in it.

The first rule is never to invest more than you can lose, every investor should be aware of that.

[franklin2058]

That's if there are any actually, and even if they do exist, they can only manipulate the price for a short period of time, not totally run it down to zero as you claim possible.

We don't know for sure that "they can only manipulate the price for a short period of time", people with advanced manipulation techniques is difficult to imagine. How comes there are so many dictators out there? Because they manipulate people for long period of time.

Bitcoin cannot even be likened to a country in any way possible, this network is decentralized, no one can control it, there are no leaders(whales) and it's future seems bright judging by how it's doom has been predicted time and again, yet failed.

Bitcoin is a currency, a country issues currency, therefore I can't see why it can't be likened to a country. Many countries issues currency that depreciate over time, bitcoin doesn't issue a lot, that is the difference. The network may not decentralized: mining is probably centralized in China and a lot of whale may exist to manipulate to market. (See the part "Trend towards centralization" in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Decentralization).

Could you please give data or source to proof the claim that there is no whale? I really don't understand this.

[Stedsm]

That's if there are any actually, and even if they do exist, they can only manipulate the price for a short period of time, not totally run it down to zero as you claim possible.

We don't know for sure that "they can only manipulate the price for a short period of time", people with advanced manipulation techniques is difficult to imagine. How comes there are so many dictators out there? Because they manipulate people for long period of time.

You must be aware of forex, indexes, commodities, shares, stocks, etc. right? Don't tell me that these such things can't be manipulated? Then why not crypto when it is still very early for many users to understand the basics of trading in crypto? Anyways, it was long ago when people used to do it, but now investors have gone smart and they know that the sentiments can't really be controlled due to the fact that this crypto sphere is being spread at a wider margin and they can't really get to pay the price it takes to manipulate it. A recent example was when a trader tried to keep BTC stable at 12100 on Binance with a huge 1.5k BTC sell wall over there while other exchanges were having its value going in surplus with more than (at least) $400 extra on each exchange. What happened? His BTC got eaten up by other whales who wanted the markets to stay up. So, we've got a very strong buyers' base here if we've got shorts.

Bitcoin cannot even be likened to a country in any way possible, this network is decentralized, no one can control it, there are no leaders(whales) and it's future seems bright judging by how it's doom has been predicted time and again, yet failed.

Could you please give data or source to proof the claim that there is no whale? I really don't understand this.

I'd vice-versa your question on you and would like to ask you if you've got the data to prove us that there are such whales who got the guts to still control the markets?

[Coyster]

Bitcoin is a currency, a country issues currency, therefore I can't see why it can't be likened to a country. Many countries issues currency that depreciate over time, bitcoin doesn't issue a lot, that is the difference. The network may not decentralized: mining is probably centralized in China and a lot of whale may exist to manipulate to market

Bitcoin is a crptocurrency, it's a digital form of currency, it's far different from the regular fiat currencies, it's decentralized(no body controls it) as opposed to fiat currencies that's controlled by the government and banks.

As for mining been centralized, anyone may be possible to  a mining rig, but cannot control or hijack bitcoin transactions, all miners do is to validate the transaction, they have no effect on the price and doesn't make bitcoin any centralized.

[Aveatrex]

Bitcoin is a currency, a country issues currency, therefore I can't see why it can't be likened to a country.

To me,it can't be linked to a country simply because it's an universal currency that can be used worldwide but contrariwise each country issues their own fiat currency that can solely be used in that country.Can you see the difference now?

The network may not decentralized: mining is probably centralized in China and a lot of whale may exist to manipulate to market.

If most of Bitcoin is mined in China that doesn't mean that Bitcoin is centralized in China; you should reconsider your definition of centralization.Having most of the mining power coming from China isn't an issue at all,if China or miners in China decide to stop mining Bitcoin, the network won't be destroyed or heavilyaffected,there will always be someone who is happy to mine the free Bitcoins.

Could you please give data or source to proof the claim that there is no whale? I really don't understand this.

Whales do exist and no one can prove the opposite.

[1Referee]

As for mining been centralized, anyone may be possible to  a mining rig, but cannot control or hijack bitcoin transactions, all miners do is to validate the transaction, they have no effect on the price and doesn't make bitcoin any centralized.

Mining looks centralized, but isn't so under the hood. Behind a seemingly big pool there are thousands of smaller miners pointing their hashrate to them.

Bitcoin's smaller blocks give miners the incentive to include transactions in a block, while before they may have not really done it. I remember a time where Jihan Wu was mining empty blocks just for the heck of it; the transaction fees didn't add up to a decent enough amount so he couldn't care less about transactions waiting for confirmation, which is completely different right now.

Look at BCash's network for example. Some miners have been mining empty blocks or just the transactions that were of their own. It's an easy to exploit attack factor.

[dothebeats]

It seems nobody knows how many whales are out there, these whales maybe extremely selfish. Therefore, it is like a country with UNKNOWN Gini coefficient and UNKNOWN leaders, therefore very UNCLEAR economic future. In other words, it is very difficult to predict its future.

Whales do not control bitcoin directly to issue bitcoin. They might be holding a lot of coins on their arsenal but knowing how many whales are there, and knowing that they may possibly not know each other, they still have their own agenda and own moves in the market making making the whole control of the economy seem almost impossible, not unless they band together and manipulate everything up to the tiniest bit.

From what I understand, if we consider in the near future, even if the scaling problem are completely solved, bitcoin may still fail because reasons list above in terms of wealth distribution. If you buy bitcoin now, it is like immigrating to a new country.

I'm pretty sure wealth is always distributed amongst those who stayed on the bitcoin train every time the coin dies a little, or faces an extreme correction, and it's just that the whales know better that's why they end up buying the most coins, stacking it up and sell at the right opportunity. It may be a flaw for wealth distribution but it still is wealth distribution nonetheless.

Never underestimate the possibility that bitcoin may go to zero. Do NOT be too confident with bitcoin and put all your money in it.

That's why one should always be 100% sure before investing their money into high-risk assets such as bitcoin. Remember the Lehman Brother's which effectively closed down in 2008? They were confident that they were 'too big to fail' and jokes on them, they fell down and bankruptcy went after. Bitcoin is no different. Anytime, a similar scenario could happen and it could fall down to zero so don't ever put all of your eggs in a single basket.

[bitbunnny]

It's an interesting comparison but actually I can't see any connection. Bitcoin is not tied to.any country and to be more precise it's not actually a currency so it's not tied to any economy or monetary system of any particular country. Amd that is advantage of Bitcoin and that is why is available to everyone, everywhere.

[abeecrypto]

Of course. It is like a new country; a new country where the people actually make real decisions. I quite agree with you that there are selfish whales out there. There have always been those kinds of whales, even before the advent of bitcoin. And those whales only have little effect on Bitcoin.
And of course, It is not advisable for one to put in all their money in one place. Not just Bitcoin.

[timerland]

First of all, I appreciate your skepticism. But I'm not sure whether or not "immigrating to a new country" is the right analogy to make.

It seems nobody knows how many whales are out there, these whales maybe extremely selfish. Therefore, it is like a country with UNKNOWN Gini coefficient and UNKNOWN leaders, therefore very UNCLEAR economic future. In other words, it is very difficult to predict its future.

The question probably boils down to, do the whales matter in terms of keeping bitcoin's network running? Is a leader required for the network to function? The answer to both these questions is a clear and decisive no.

Sure, traders with large positions are able to influence the markets in a drastic way; but in what open market is this statement not true? Virtually in every market, futures, stocks, commodities there are big players and small players, that's just the way it is.

From what I understand, if we consider in the near future, even if the scaling problem are completely solved, bitcoin may still fail because reasons list above in terms of wealth distribution. If you buy bitcoin now, it is like immigrating to a new country. Never underestimate the possibility that bitcoin may go to zero. Do NOT be too confident with bitcoin and put all your money in it.

You have to realize that wealth distribution isn't something that the currency itself can solve. Also, looking at the gini coefficient of BTC alone doesn't tell you the whole picture, since a lot of coins are centralized at certain exchanges that do not legally belong to these exchanges.

At least with bitcoin, you are sure that wealth distribution is transparent and immutable. Contrast that to fiat, and you'll see the obvious benefits.

[Duzter]

Market manipulation is done by the whales, and the same is possible to some extent, beyond which it is completely based on the demand to the supply. Scaling issues have been found long back and the same is being rectified with better development plans. It isn't same as getting into a new country as immigrant, because to use bitcoin or cryptocurrency it is a very simple process you doesn't need to follow a big process as there is no authority, while to be an immigrant it takes even years.

[FlightyPouch]

Bitcoin is not like immigrating, you are using a crypto currency and being introduced to financial freedom. You don't need to follow cultures or traditions, you just go with your own methods or wants. We don't have the government, we don't have leaders but we all have that people who can affect the price of it in their own profit.

[NavI_027]

From what I understand, if we consider in the near future, even if the scaling problem are completely solved, bitcoin may still fail because reasons list above in terms of wealth distribution. If you buy bitcoin now, it is like immigrating to a new country.

Ah, I understand your point. So what are you trying to say with "immigrating to a new country" is that you are buying more but getting less in return just like converting 1 Peso to 1 Dollar,. They have same amount but got different values since P1 is only equivalent to $.02 assuming a $1 = P50 rate; and the same thing applied when converting fiat to btc. Well, that's the nature of crypto and the only thing we can do is to adapt. If you are complaining about the wealth distribution then ask yourself once again, ask "Why I didn't invest into it when its price is very cheap", "Why I didn't believe on its future during its pioneer days?" Apparently, its your fault not the whales simply because they knew how to risk something to get something bigger and here they are now the billionaires of our time. If you think they are unfair for having huge amount of btc then you're wrong, they deserve it for all of the sacrifices they made. Anyway, if you really don't like crypto then you can stop it using anyway but just don't expext that everybody follow your lead .

My advice is try to look at the better picture. Imagine what if the price soar very high? That was so great, right? Because it means that you are "immigrating to a new country" once again — from a wealthier country to a poorer country. That was a lotvof money this time. I hope you get my point .  

Never underestimate the possibility that bitcoin may go to zero. Do NOT be too confident with bitcoin and put all your money in it.

Yeah, the possibilities were always there but its price will not drop suddenly to zero in just one day so there's nothing to worry about. Its price declines in a slow manner, and knowing that, you still have the adequate time to assess yourself; to decide whether it is now the right time for you to continue hodling or stop. Losing a lot of money is still preventable.

[Janation]

Buying bitcoin is like immigrating at the best and higher country, we have make good investment for the future with bitcoin and altcoin keep as our investment assets for the future.

We can base on that.

It is like immigrating there with a lot of dangerous people and expensive living. It is fast and reliable but there are a lot of people lurking around taking advantage of the status they are in.

[davis196]

It seems nobody knows how many whales are out there, these whales maybe extremely selfish. Therefore, it is like a country with UNKNOWN Gini coefficient and UNKNOWN leaders, therefore very UNCLEAR economic future. In other words, it is very difficult to predict its future.

From what I understand, if we consider in the near future, even if the scaling problem are completely solved, bitcoin may still fail because reasons list above in terms of wealth distribution. If you buy bitcoin now, it is like immigrating to a new country. Never underestimate the possibility that bitcoin may go to zero. Do NOT be too confident with bitcoin and put all your money in it.

So to summarize your theory,bitcoin is like another country just because rich crypto whales are using it and there's inequality.Sounds stupid to me.
If there leaders were KNOWN,would this fact make the economic future CLEAR?
I know that bitcoin price might go to zero and i'm not over-confident about the future of bitcoin,but all your statements are plain stupid.

[Febo]

It seems nobody knows how many whales are out there, these whales maybe extremely selfish. Therefore, it is like a country with UNKNOWN Gini coefficient and UNKNOWN leaders, therefore very UNCLEAR economic future. In other words, it is very difficult to predict its future.

From what I understand, if we consider in the near future, even if the scaling problem are completely solved, bitcoin may still fail because reasons list above in terms of wealth distribution. If you buy bitcoin now, it is like immigrating to a new country. Never underestimate the possibility that bitcoin may go to zero. Do NOT be too confident with bitcoin and put all your money in it.

Owning Bitcoin dont mean you lead it.  I have no correlation. Bitcoin is money to use. Bitcoin is lead by developers, miners and infrastructure. Those that use Bitcoin are part of infrastructure.

[beerlover]

The difference between bitcoin and other nations is that whales can only affect the price but not bitcoin itself.

Even if you are huge miner we have seen that people like Jihan Wu and Roger Ver who have controlled the biggest mining operations everywhere failed to bring their own version of bitcoin to life and we moved on with segwith whereas they had to create their own version of bitcoin with bitcoin cash. That is why even though we do have whales and do have some rights and can ruin the economy whenever they want, that will only affect the price of bitcoin and nothing else. That is the freedom we like in bitcoin, a person with a lot of money will not be able to bribe their way into making bitcoin 31 million limited instead of 21, or they can't make the blocks bigger, or times slower or whatever else, it is not possible, that is the type of innovation finance needed.

[brotherwood12]

so true , but i think its same as other investment  we dont know how or who make that price or the cause of price rising or lowering
what we can do its just analyze and hope the best for our investment

[fiulpro]

It is more like placing a bet , a long term bet .. which can show gains in the upcoming year or even show a downside and hit mere a dollar per Bitcoins.
When we are going to some other country at least we know what to expect and we are well prepared,but actually sometimes it happens that you were asleep , saw the price 3k and then in the morning price was 4k suddenly .. even opposite'
But we can back out anytime is something that is a good thing, we don't have any time limit, while trading for gold you need to specify the time period of holding here everything is according to us ..