Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2021, 03:48:28 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 22.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: The most challenging thing  (Read 261 times)
qubitasic
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 48
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 17, 2019, 03:41:19 PM
 #1

The most challenging thing will be:

When the privatekeys of the lost coins with no owners - 'shalecoins' - will be 'fracked'.
The first group will then sell all these coins because they will then know that it is possible to get the privatekeys and that others could 'frack' them. No matter what the BTC price, they will sell them.

There are more than 1,000,000 'shalecoins' with a 10+ billion US$ value. So we can expect that there are private groups - not institutions like the link below - who want/try to build a supercomputer.

But thereafter 'shalecoin' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134441.0 will be solved and the blockchain will be clean.
That is important for the Bitcoin development.


"Quantum computers will soon outperform classical machines"
"The project is part of the EU’s €1 billion, 10-year Quantum Flagship initiative to kickstart a competitive European industry in quantum technologies."
http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2019/07/01/quantum-computers-will-soon-outperform-classical-machines/
https://medium.com/the-quantum-resistant-ledger/no-ibms-quantum-computer-won-t-break-bitcoin-but-we-should-be-prepared-for-one-that-can-cc3e178ebff0
1638978508
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1638978508

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1638978508
Reply with quote  #2

1638978508
Report to moderator
"Your bitcoin is secured in a way that is physically impossible for others to access, no matter for what reason, no matter how good the excuse, no matter a majority of miners, no matter what." -- Greg Maxwell
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
kryptqnick
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 1223


Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!


View Profile
July 17, 2019, 04:11:36 PM
 #2

Do you mean "crack" instead of frack? Because otherwise, I am not sure I'm following you. Assuming you mean that, I think you are making a mistake in the argument. Yes, there are lots of coins in the wallets to which nobody currently has access. Yes, if these wallets are opened and the belongings are sold pretty much simultaneously with those from other wallets, it could be a big hit on the market. But no, it's not 100% clear that there'll ever be computers able to make it possible. And if we imagine there are some, then Bitcoin will have a much bigger problem: the whole thing makes no sense if the private keys can be obtained so fast. However, even this won't be the end of crypto per se, since even nowadays there're already some (at least, allegedly) quantum-resistant cryptos.

  ▄▄█████▄▄███████▄▄
 ███████████
     ▀▀███▄
█████████████        ▀██▄
█████████████          ██▄
███████████            ██▄
██▀▀█████▀▀              ██
██                       ██
██                       ██
▀██                     ██▀
 ▀██                   ██▀
  ▀██▄               ▄██▀
    ▀███▄▄       ▄▄███▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
███████████    LEADING CRYPTO SPORTSBOOK & CASINO    ███████████
MULTI
CURRENCY
1500+
CASINO GAMES
CRYPTO EXCLUSIVE
CLUBHOUSE
FAST & SECURE
PAYMENTS
..PLAY NOW!..
qubitasic
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 48
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 17, 2019, 04:44:33 PM
 #3

Do you mean "crack" instead of frack?
"crack": all coins
"fracking": only 'shalecoins' - see deifinition:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134441.0


Quote
..if the private keys can be obtained so fast.
It will start slowly but the BTC community will then know that these 'shalecoins' are being 'fracked' and sold until there are no 'shalecoins' there.


Quote
However, even this won't be the end of crypto per se, since even nowadays there're already some (at least, allegedly) quantum-resistant cryptos.
Yes, you are right. This will be the new beginning.
But thereafter 'shalecoin' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134441.0 will be solved and the blockchain will be clean.
That is important for the Bitcoin development.
dothebeats
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2758
Merit: 1292


www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games


View Profile
July 17, 2019, 04:46:07 PM
 #4

There are more than 1,000,000 'shalecoins' with a 10+ billion US$ value. So we can expect that there are private groups - not institutions like the link below - who want/try to build a supercomputer.

If the potential cost outweighs the potential profit, then I think this will only be written in diagrams and blueprints and will never materialize. We are still not close into designing a viable quantum computer that would be able to decode SHA-256, ECDSA and other involved algorithms contained within the bitcoin protocol. Even if it does, well, it will still take a huge amount of time, and by then we may have moved into other algorithms that are quantum-resistant.


"Quantum computers will soon outperform classical machines"
"The project is part of the EU’s €1 billion, 10-year Quantum Flagship initiative to kickstart a competitive European industry in quantum technologies."
http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2019/07/01/quantum-computers-will-soon-outperform-classical-machines/
https://medium.com/the-quantum-resistant-ledger/no-ibms-quantum-computer-won-t-break-bitcoin-but-we-should-be-prepared-for-one-that-can-cc3e178ebff0

Truly so, though honestly I don't see why many are crazy about it being applied to bitcoin, and if in case it was successful, it will only damage the value of the said crypto as everyone holding bitcoins and their mothers would rush into selling it immediately to the highest bidder at that time.

████  ███████  ███
██████████
███      ███████
███      ███████████
██████████████████
████████
███   ████  ███████████
███ ███████████████
█████████
█████████████████
███  ███████
██████████████
███        ████████
███████████▀▀███▀▀███████████
██████▀▀     ███     ▀▀██████
████▀   ▄▄█████████▄▄   ▀████
████▄▄▄███▀  ▀█▀  ▀███▄▄▄████
██▀▀▀██▀      ▀      ▀██▀▀▀██
█▀  ▄██               ██▄  ▀█
█   ████▄▄         ▄▄████   █
█▄  ▀██▀             ▀██▀  ▄█
██▄▄▄██▄             ▄██▄▄▄██
████▀▀▀███▄ ▄█ █▄ ▄███▀▀▀████
████▄   ▀▀███▄█████▀▀   ▄████
███████▄     ███     ▄███████
███████████▄▄███▄▄███████████
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
..PLAY NOW..
███  ███████  ████
██████████
███████      ███
███████████      ███
██████████████████
████████
███████████  ████   ███
███████████████ ███
█████████
█████████████████
███████  ███
██████████████
████████        ███
Chlotide
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 274
Merit: 101



View Profile
July 17, 2019, 06:38:56 PM
 #5

If SHA256 is "fracked"... we would have much more things to worry about than a big BTC dump. Satellites will crash, governments will fall..... BTC will be later on our problem list.!
pooya87
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 5244


End of Year discount(?)


View Profile
July 18, 2019, 03:17:04 AM
 #6

you can't just come up with new terms on your own and expect people to accept them and know them already! not to mention that things you are posting here already have names. for starters what you are calling "shalecoin" is called "provably burnt coins". these coins are burnt by being sent to a burn address and will never be retrieved. if someday EDCSA is broken (which probably won't be in our lifetime) bitcoin will have already been changed to disable claiming of such coins. which means they can not be sold.

darklus123
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 587


Crypto Casino & Sportsbook


View Profile
July 18, 2019, 03:41:58 AM
 #7

If the private keys will really be access easily in the near future, If I am still alive during that time I will probably keep my self out of this ecosystem. Eventually tho, it is also pretty convincing that throughout the process bitcoin development will be able to handle this issue but if not then we are all doomed and it might be the fall of bitcoin.

Then there will be new sets of technology that will solve the problem why the hell are we even worrying about it.


██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
████████▀▀▀        ▀▀█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████▀    ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄    ███████████████████████████████████████████████
█████    ▄█████████▌   ▐█████▀  ▐███████████████▌  ▀██████████████████
████▌   ▐██████████    █████    ████████████████    ██████████████████
████▌   ▐█████████▄▄▄▄█████▌   ▐███████████████▌   ▐███▀▀█████████████
█████    ▀███████████████▀▀        ▄███████████    ██▀   ▐████████████
██████▄     ▀▀███████▀▀         ▄▄███▀▀▀▀█████▌   ▐▀   ▄███▀▀   ▀█████
█████████▄▄     ▀▀███▄  ▄▄    ████▀    ▄   ███       ▄███▀   ▄█  ▐████
█████████████▄▄     ▀████▌   ▐███▀   ███   ██▌      ████    ██▀  █████
██████▀▀   ▀█████▄    ███    ████   ███▌  ▐██    ▌  ▐██▌      ▄▄██████
█████    ▄████████    ▐██    ██▀▀   ██▀   ▐▀    ▐█   ██▌   ▀██▀▀  ████
████▌   ▐████████▀    ███▄     ▄▄▄     ▄    ▄   ▐██   ██▄      ▄▄█████
████▌   ███████▀    ▄███████████████████████████████▄  ▀▀██████▀▀ ████
█████    ▀▀▀▀     ▄█████████▀    ▀█▀    ▀█       ▀████▄▄         ▄████
██████▄▄    ▄▄▄▄████████████  █████  ██  █  █  █  ████████████████████
█████████████████████████  █▄    ▄█▄    ▄█  █  █  ████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄
█  ▄▀▄             █▀▀▐▀▄▄
█  █▀█             █  ▐  ▐▌
█       ▄██▄       █  ▌  █
█     ▄██████▄     █  ▌ ▐▌
█    ██████████    █ ▐  █
█   ▐██████████▌   █ ▐ ▐▌
█    ▀▀██████▀▀    █ ▌ █
█     ▄▄▄██▄▄▄     █ ▌▐▌
█                  █▐ █
█                  █▐▐▌
█                  █▐█
▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█
▄▄█████████▄▄
▄█▀▀▀█████████▀▀▀█▄
▄█▀    ▄▀█████▀     ▀█▄
▄█▄    █        ▀▄   ███▄
▄████▀▀▀▀▄       ▄▀▀▀▀▀███▄
████      ▀▄▄▄▄▄▀       ███
███     ▄▄███████▄▄     ▄▀█
█  ▀▄ ▄▀ ▀███████▀ ▀▄ ▄▀  █
▀█   █     ▀███▀     ▀▄  █▀
▀█▄▄█▄      █        █▄█▀
▀█████▄ ▄▀▀ ▀▀▄▄ ▄▄███▀
▀█████        ████▀
▀▀█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▀▀
● OVER 1000 GAMES
● DAILY RACES AND BONUSES
● 24/7 LIVE SUPPORT
joelsamuya
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 41

https://emirex.com


View Profile
July 18, 2019, 04:56:00 AM
 #8



I am not worried about this projected development because by then I am sure that a solution could have been found addressing the said scenario. And if ever this scenario will really materialize then all of us will suffer the consequences so that is fine with me. We should be more worrying with the present and leave this whole thing to people who have the business of doing so. The possibility that soon we will have quantum computers is real though but by then we could already have a way to deal with it. In every problem there can be a solution as long as there is an incentive to produce them.
jseverson
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834
Merit: 756


View Profile
July 18, 2019, 05:19:38 AM
 #9

You can expect Bitcoin to be quantum-proof long before people are able to use quantum computers to steal even lost coins. It simply isn't necessary to do this yet.

Another thing to note is that Bitcoin would be one of the last things thieves will be looking at considering they'll have enough firepower to break through basically any encryption -- banking systems, corporations' infrastructure, etc., will yield much higher returns. They're not quantum proof yet either, because again, it's not necessary as of now.

figmentofmyass
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1481



View Profile
July 18, 2019, 06:34:54 AM
Last edit: July 18, 2019, 07:46:39 AM by figmentofmyass
 #10

for starters what you are calling "shalecoin" is called "provably burnt coins". these coins are burnt by being sent to a burn address and will never be retrieved. if someday EDCSA is broken (which probably won't be in our lifetime) bitcoin will have already been changed to disable claiming of such coins.

if ECDSA is broken, aren't re-used addresses and p2pk outputs (like satoshi's coins) a much bigger problem? for all we know, there are millions of lost coins that would be vulnerable.

i hope your right about the "not in our lifetime" bit. i've seen some projections that ECDSA could be broken within a decade.

Kakmakr
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 1654



View Profile
July 18, 2019, 06:49:24 AM
 #11

I think you are applying "old" names to new concepts. Fracking is the process of injecting liquid at high pressure into subterranean rocks, boreholes, etc. so as to force open existing fissures and extract oil or gas. Source : https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fracking

The "Quantum computing" issue has been discussed to death on this forum and most people do not see it as a threat, because encryption can be strengthened to make it impossible for Quantum technologies to "crack" the private keys.  Tongue 

.
████▄             ▄████
██████▄    ▄    ▄██████
▀████▀  ▄███▄  ▀████▀
▀▀  ▄██▀▀▀██▄  ▀▀
▄████   ████▄
███████████████
▀████   ████▀
▄█▄  ▀██▄▄▄██▀  ▄█▄
▄███▄  ▀███▀  ▄███▄
▄███▀▀█▀   ▀   ▀█▀▀███▄
▀█▀                 ▀█▀
Duelbits         ▄████████▄▄
       ▄██████████████▄
    ▄██████████████████▄
    ████████████████████▄
    ▄████████████████████▄
  ▄███████████████████████
▄████████▄▄██████▄▄██████▄▄
████████▀█▄▀▀█▀▀▄█▀█████████
▀█████▄▄████▄▄▄██████▀ ▀██▀
  ▀█████▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀█▀
    ▀████████████████▀
      ▀████████████▀

     ▄██████████████▄
▄███▄▄     ▄▄███▄
██████▄ ▄██████
▀▀█████████▀▀
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
█████████████████████████

█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
|              ▄▄▀▀█▌
          ▄▄▀█▄    █
        ▄▀     ▀▄▄ █
       █    ▄▄    ▀█
    ▄▄█    █  █   ▐▌
  ▄▀ █      ▀▀    █
▄▀  ▐▌           █
█ ▄▀▀▄▄        ▄▀
▀▀  ▄  ▀▄▄   ▄▀█
  ▄▀   ▄  ▀█▀  █
   ▄▀ ▄▀   █  █
  ▄▀ █     █▄▀
   ▄▀
|||
[ Đ ][ Ł ]
AVAILABLE NOW
yazher
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302
Merit: 541


You own the pen


View Profile
July 18, 2019, 07:18:49 AM
 #12

No matter how slow they are at least they are having some progress, hope they will open some new hope with this project, but let's not forget one thing, if they succeed with this, correct me If I'm wrong they will have an opportunity to get the people's cryptocurrencies. right?

Imagine If they succeed with this thing all of the crypto owners are no longer secured especially those who have a lot of Altcoins on their wallets. Is that how these things work or not?

.freebitcoin.       ▄▄▄█▀▀██▄▄▄
   ▄▄██████▄▄█  █▀▀█▄▄
  ███  █▀▀███████▄▄██▀
   ▀▀▀██▄▄█  ████▀▀  ▄██
▄███▄▄  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ▄▄██████
██▀▀█████▄     ▄██▀█ ▀▀██
██▄▄███▀▀██   ███▀ ▄▄  ▀█
███████▄▄███ ███▄▄ ▀▀▄  █
██▀▀████████ █████  █▀▄██
 █▄▄████████ █████   ███
  ▀████  ███ ████▄▄███▀
     ▀▀████   ████▀▀
BITCOIN
DICE
EVENT
BETTING
WIN A LAMBO !

.
            ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████████▄▄▄▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄██████████████████████████████████▄▄▄▄
▀██████████████████████████████████████████████▄▄▄
▄▄████▄█████▄████████████████████████████▄█████▄████▄▄
▀████████▀▀▀████████████████████████████████▀▀▀██████████▄
  ▀▀▀████▄▄▄███████████████████████████████▄▄▄██████████
       ▀█████▀  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ▀█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.PLAY NOW.
satoquotes
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 11
Merit: 1


View Profile
July 18, 2019, 01:57:44 PM
 #13

I think you are applying "old" names to new concepts. Fracking is the process of injecting liquid at high pressure into subterranean rocks, boreholes, etc. so as to force open existing fissures and extract oil or gas. Source : https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fracking
Satoshi used Mining
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/mining


No matter how slow they are at least they are having some progress
Then, when the first "shalecoins" are being moved, the cryptocommunity will discuss different topics: quantum secure addresses.

, if they succeed with this,
They will.

, correct me If I'm wrong they will have an opportunity to get the people's cryptocurrencies. right?
No, the first group will try to get the 'shalecoins', they have no owners. How do they know this? Nobody can, but if you move your coins to another address, they will know that there is an owner.
They could move coins from addresses with owner, but they will not. It would disturb the Bitcoin ecosystem and also the value of their coins.

Postquantum, nobody will be able to prove that he/she/they was/were the owner/s in the old system, because everyone will be able to reproduce the privatekeys.

We will have a quantum secure network.
This will be the new beginning.
diahsw
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 105



View Profile
July 19, 2019, 04:35:54 AM
 #14

The most challenging thing will be:

When the privatekeys of the lost coins with no owners - 'shalecoins' - will be 'fracked'.
The first group will then sell all these coins because they will then know that it is possible to get the privatekeys and that others could 'frack' them. No matter what the BTC price, they will sell them.

There are more than 1,000,000 'shalecoins' with a 10+ billion US$ value. So we can expect that there are private groups - not institutions like the link below - who want/try to build a supercomputer.

But thereafter 'shalecoin' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134441.0 will be solved and the blockchain will be clean.
That is important for the Bitcoin development.


"Quantum computers will soon outperform classical machines"
"The project is part of the EU’s €1 billion, 10-year Quantum Flagship initiative to kickstart a competitive European industry in quantum technologies."
http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2019/07/01/quantum-computers-will-soon-outperform-classical-machines/
https://medium.com/the-quantum-resistant-ledger/no-ibms-quantum-computer-won-t-break-bitcoin-but-we-should-be-prepared-for-one-that-can-cc3e178ebff0


Like welcoming in real life, your wallet must be secured. Bitcoin allows you to transfer value anywhere in a very easy way and with complete control of your money. Great features need high security that need attention. Bitcoin provides a high level of security if used correctly. Remember your responsibility to take good security measures in order to protect your money.

S T R A Y   ███  ANIMAL TOKEN - CHARITY AND INVESTMENTS
───── ─    BUY NOW       ─ ─────
WEBSITE     TWITTER     TELEGRAM     REDDIT     WHITEPAPER
pooya87
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 5244


End of Year discount(?)


View Profile
July 19, 2019, 04:47:46 AM
 #15

for starters what you are calling "shalecoin" is called "provably burnt coins". these coins are burnt by being sent to a burn address and will never be retrieved. if someday EDCSA is broken (which probably won't be in our lifetime) bitcoin will have already been changed to disable claiming of such coins.

if ECDSA is broken, aren't re-used addresses and p2pk outputs (like satoshi's coins) a much bigger problem? for all we know, there are millions of lost coins that would be vulnerable.

i hope your right about the "not in our lifetime" bit. i've seen some projections that ECDSA could be broken within a decade.

that is correct, those coins with revealed public keys are at a more immediate threat compared to anything that only has revealed a hash of the public key (never used address).

as for the time it takes, i don't think we can predict it, i was just guessing. besides these things don't happen overnight. it slowly is improved. for example first instead of taking a million years to break it, it would take hundreds of thousands of years, then it is improved more to take smaller time,... and eventually reach an efficiency that it could be broken within days. somewhere along this line we simply drop ECDSA and move to a stronger cryptography. that is how cryptography has evolved and replaced with stronger versions over 2 thousand years.

qubitasic
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 48
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 19, 2019, 01:47:17 PM
Last edit: July 19, 2019, 02:01:22 PM by qubitasic
 #16

They will develop new quantum technologies:

New quantum computing building block developed by Australian researchers
The quantum building block, which is capable of performing an operation of 0.8 nanoseconds, is around 200 times faster than existing spin-based two-qubit gates in silicon.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-07-19/quantum-computing-silicon-two-qubit-gate/11325424

Forget Qubits — Scientists Just Built a Quantum Gate With Qudits
And they could help usher in the era of the quantum computer.
https://futurism.com/forget-qubits-quantum-scientists-building-qudits

The research team discovered that four qudits had the same power as 20 qubits. What’s more, the qudits were more stable than the qubits.
https://canadianhomesteading.ca/science/quantum-computing-breakthrough-scientists-created-quantum-gates-using-qudits/11458
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!