Should A Bar Be Forced By The Government To Give A Pregnant Woman Alcohol?

[robbylove]

https://youtu.be/znpwKBR2eDE

My position is: no. The baby is underage and should not be drinking in a bar. At home no one can see nor stop the future mom.

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[Jet Cash]

I didn't watch all of the video , but it seemed that there were multiple issues involved.

The first one is fraud. If a person purchases a drink believing it to be alcoholic, and it isn't, then that is fraud in my opinion. If you don't want to do it, then state that you can only serve that person with an alcohol free drink.

The alcohol may not be the worst element in the drink. Some of the other ingredients may contain more damaging chemicals

Cheap alcohol is poison, and I don't think anybody should drink it.

I'm not a doctor, but I would have thought that a single glass of red wine could relax a pregnant woman, and provide her with an iron supplement that could be beneficial to both her and the baby. As with most things, moderation is the key - pregnant women shouldn't get drunk.

Lack of knowledge and education is another factor here. The mother should have sufficient knowledge, and care for the baby enough to avoid excessive alcohol, McDonalds food, sugary drinks, drugs or other harmful products.

Also I believe that more damage is done by the administration of pharmaceutical drugs to both the parent and the baby. I understand that the US now has a population where over 50% is sick or diseased, and is dependent on so called health aids.

[squatz1]

Alcohols were prescribed by doctors as medicine to few people to over come more serious problem than drinking alcohol.If that woman that kind of person then nothing wrong with it and the baby i still not born so the full control is in the hand of that woman.

There is something wrong with drinking when you're pregnant, and that's why you're not supposed to do it. Unless you'd like to expose your new born child to something like fetal alcohol syndrome, which is a great thing to do if you're a horrible parent.

It should be illegal for pregnant women to drink alcohol, as they're causing harm onto their child without care for that child. It should be like if you weren't to feed your child, or to miscare for your child when you've already given birth.

[bluefirecorp_]

Government regulating a contract between two private citizens? Sounds like communism to me. 

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No one is forced to disclose if they're pregnant or not; it'd be silly to ask.

Technically, most bars require the age limit to be 21 to enter. If we consider the fetus being alive (looking at all those anti-abortion states), then the woman shouldn't be allowed in the bar with a child.

Overall, it's a parent's responsibility to ensure the viability of their child. If they're drinking at a bar, they're probably drinking at home. What next? Sending in a SWAT team to arrest them at home?

If the child's born with some sort of alcohol dependence, CPS should probably get involved. Otherwise, shitty parents gonna be shitty parents regardless of government oversight.

[robbylove]

I didn't watch all of the video , but it seemed that there were multiple issues involved.

The first one is fraud. If a person purchases a drink believing it to be alcoholic, and it isn't, then that is fraud in my opinion. If you don't want to do it, then state that you can only serve that person with an alcohol free drink.

The alcohol may not be the worst element in the drink. Some of the other ingredients may contain more damaging chemicals

Cheap alcohol is poison, and I don't think anybody should drink it.

I'm not a doctor, but I would have thought that a single glass of red wine could relax a pregnant woman, and provide her with an iron supplement that could be beneficial to both her and the baby. As with most things, moderation is the key - pregnant women shouldn't get drunk.

Lack of knowledge and education is another factor here. The mother should have sufficient knowledge, and care for the baby enough to avoid excessive alcohol, McDonalds food, sugary drinks, drugs or other harmful products.

Also I believe that more damage is done by the administration of pharmaceutical drugs to both the parent and the baby. I understand that the US now has a population where over 50% is sick or diseased, and is dependent on so called health aids.

The video is challenging. It would be great if you could watch it one day. He asks hard questions.

[Spendulus]

https://youtu.be/znpwKBR2eDE

My position is: no. The baby is underage and should not be drinking in a bar. At home no one can see nor stop the future mom.

The essential question here is not what should or should not the mom or the bar do, but what and when and if the government should get involved in an issue.

The simple answer is no, this is not an issue that the government should get into.

[Astargath]

I didn't watch all of the video , but it seemed that there were multiple issues involved.

The first one is fraud. If a person purchases a drink believing it to be alcoholic, and it isn't, then that is fraud in my opinion. If you don't want to do it, then state that you can only serve that person with an alcohol free drink.

The alcohol may not be the worst element in the drink. Some of the other ingredients may contain more damaging chemicals

Cheap alcohol is poison, and I don't think anybody should drink it.

I'm not a doctor, but I would have thought that a single glass of red wine could relax a pregnant woman, and provide her with an iron supplement that could be beneficial to both her and the baby. As with most things, moderation is the key - pregnant women shouldn't get drunk.

Lack of knowledge and education is another factor here. The mother should have sufficient knowledge, and care for the baby enough to avoid excessive alcohol, McDonalds food, sugary drinks, drugs or other harmful products.

Also I believe that more damage is done by the administration of pharmaceutical drugs to both the parent and the baby. I understand that the US now has a population where over 50% is sick or diseased, and is dependent on so called health aids.

Moderation is not key, what the fuck are you even talking about, have you ever seen a bottle of wine in your life? Almost all of them have a sticker with a pregnant women saying you shouldn't drink wine if you are pregnant. If a woman drinks during pregnancy the baby has the risk of suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome. Yes it's true that the more you drink the more chances the fetus has of suffering from the syndrome, however, even small quantities of alcohol can produce this syndrome even if it's unlikely.

[BADecker]

I didn't watch all of the video , but it seemed that there were multiple issues involved.

The first one is fraud. If a person purchases a drink believing it to be alcoholic, and it isn't, then that is fraud in my opinion. If you don't want to do it, then state that you can only serve that person with an alcohol free drink.

The alcohol may not be the worst element in the drink. Some of the other ingredients may contain more damaging chemicals

Cheap alcohol is poison, and I don't think anybody should drink it.

I'm not a doctor, but I would have thought that a single glass of red wine could relax a pregnant woman, and provide her with an iron supplement that could be beneficial to both her and the baby. As with most things, moderation is the key - pregnant women shouldn't get drunk.

Lack of knowledge and education is another factor here. The mother should have sufficient knowledge, and care for the baby enough to avoid excessive alcohol, McDonalds food, sugary drinks, drugs or other harmful products.

Also I believe that more damage is done by the administration of pharmaceutical drugs to both the parent and the baby. I understand that the US now has a population where over 50% is sick or diseased, and is dependent on so called health aids.

Moderation is not key, what the fuck are you even talking about, have you ever seen a bottle of wine in your life? Almost all of them have a sticker with a pregnant women saying you shouldn't drink wine if you are pregnant. If a woman drinks during pregnancy the baby has the risk of suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome. Yes it's true that the more you drink the more chances the fetus has of suffering from the syndrome, however, even small quantities of alcohol can produce this syndrome even if it's unlikely.

Those stickers or similar, are stuck on all kinds of stuff as a disclaimer. Not because someone thinks that there will be a problem.

[squatz1]

I didn't watch all of the video , but it seemed that there were multiple issues involved.

The first one is fraud. If a person purchases a drink believing it to be alcoholic, and it isn't, then that is fraud in my opinion. If you don't want to do it, then state that you can only serve that person with an alcohol free drink.

The alcohol may not be the worst element in the drink. Some of the other ingredients may contain more damaging chemicals

Cheap alcohol is poison, and I don't think anybody should drink it.

I'm not a doctor, but I would have thought that a single glass of red wine could relax a pregnant woman, and provide her with an iron supplement that could be beneficial to both her and the baby. As with most things, moderation is the key - pregnant women shouldn't get drunk.

Lack of knowledge and education is another factor here. The mother should have sufficient knowledge, and care for the baby enough to avoid excessive alcohol, McDonalds food, sugary drinks, drugs or other harmful products.

Also I believe that more damage is done by the administration of pharmaceutical drugs to both the parent and the baby. I understand that the US now has a population where over 50% is sick or diseased, and is dependent on so called health aids.

Moderation is not key, what the fuck are you even talking about, have you ever seen a bottle of wine in your life? Almost all of them have a sticker with a pregnant women saying you shouldn't drink wine if you are pregnant. If a woman drinks during pregnancy the baby has the risk of suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome. Yes it's true that the more you drink the more chances the fetus has of suffering from the syndrome, however, even small quantities of alcohol can produce this syndrome even if it's unlikely.

Yep. Jet Cash has fully went off the deep end and now thinks that fetal alcohol syndrome is okay and is using the line 'everything in moderation'

Everything in moderation is a fine one to use if and ONLY IF the only person you're effecting is yourself. But when others are involved, that's completely unfair and horrible.

The bartender, if noticing a person is most likely pregnant (which is a tough one) shouldn't serve this person. Unsure of how well fines and penalties would work here, as it could be hard to tell if someone is pregnant.

[omonuyak]

https://youtu.be/znpwKBR2eDE

My position is: no. The baby is underage and should not be drinking in a bar. At home no one can see nor stop the future mom.

Is alcohol good for a pregnant women, if yes? Then pregnant women should not be given free alcohol but they should buy from the bar. Government should not force people to do what will be against their business or affect their profits.
However, from my understand of the medical implications, some alcohol are completely chemicalized and those chemicals may not be healthy for the baby.

[yoseph]

https://youtu.be/znpwKBR2eDE

My position is: no. The baby is underage and should not be drinking in a bar. At home no one can see nor stop the future mom.

Is alcohol good for a pregnant women, if yes? Then pregnant women should not be given free alcohol but they should buy from the bar. Government should not force people to do what will be against their business or affect their profits.
However, from my understand of the medical implications, some alcohol are completely chemicalized and those chemicals may not be healthy for the baby.

If Conservatives really believe in the notion that foetus have the same right as a baby and therefore restricts abortion, then the same actually goes for pregnant lady because just as Children are not allowed to consume alcohol, so should pregnant not be allowed  to consume it since it is going to affect the baby.

[Saltius]

My opinion is no one should be forced..

A pregnant woman should be free to buy alcohol.
While in the mean time a bar should be free whether sell it to her or not.

[BADecker]

A bar is probably some form of corporation or other government authorized entity.

A bar operates in the public, and government is there to control the public.

If you don't want government in your bar life, form a PMA (Private Membership Association) with the new PMA rulings and knowledge. Make people sign up to your private club. Have it in the rules that you have the right to make any rules you see fit. If people don't like it, they don't have to go private with you. Only then will you be outside of much of government control.

Internet and Youtube search on PMA (Private Membership Association).

[TheCoinGrabber]

If true, maybe those women feel brave like this  ...




Well women there are free to abort their kids so maybe they think it's OK to drink the baby to death. The debate about whether women should also be free to off their babies in other ways is likely to continue.

What I find problematic about this is if the government allows this and the baby is born with complications, the taxpayer could end up paying for that mistake and the kid could end up on welfare if it managed to live and there's significant impairment.

[SaltySpitoon]

For some reason I had never thought about this before. There are an awful lot of conflicting laws going on. The major one that keeps the topic afloat is that businesses cannot deny a person of a protected class service, with both gender and pregnancy status being protected classes. That said, bars traditionally have a lot of control over who they can or cannot serve alcohol to. They can cut people off at their discretion, and giving someone who is very intoxicated a virgin drink when they order alcohol isn't uncommon, to prevent confrontation with someone who could become belligerent. There are a number of states (since the video refers to the US) where women drinking while pregnant is considered child abuse, and obviously that could extend to a bar that is serving a pregnant woman alcohol knowingly. At the most base level, I'd say that it could really hurt a bar's reputation if your other customers watched you give alcohol to a pregnant woman.

As far as my opinion goes, I'd say that a bar shouldn't be forced to give a pregnant woman alcohol. The only argument is that as a protected class you cant be denied service, but broadly speaking, you also can't refuse service to someone based on age by that same logic. I would say that the legal warnings on alcohol bottles not to be consumed by pregnant women should be valid enough to protect a bar in that case.

[TECSHARE]

I have spent a few years bar-tending. In order to do your job correctly and according to the law, you need to have the 100% unfettered ability to have discretion over who drinks and who does not drink. In most bars you also have the ability to eject people for any reason. Now these people may try to argue that they were denied services because of XYZ protected class, but this is something that would be difficult to prove short of you shouting racial slurs at them on the way out or something. While this woman might be able to sue, I would say the odds are she would end up with a lot of legal debts herself as she would likely end up paying the defense costs of such a frivolous suit.

It seems pretty clear to me that a server or bartender has a right to refuse alcohol at their discretion, but this should have been disclosed to the patron. Most people don't understand how much technical liability restaurants, bars, servers, bartenders, and even bouncers take on doing their jobs. If you have a few too many and t-bone a van full of kids, that could technically mean a life changing legal scenario for the people who served that customer as well. I do however understand the server taking this strategy however, as this is LITERALLY a strategy they train servers to use in many state mandated certification courses in the case of an intoxicated individual who insists on more alcohol. I could see this causing some problems for the state if not offering a solid defense if this state also has such instructions in its course.

[OgNasty]

You could argue both sides of this debate from many angles.  Is a pregnant woman drinking alcohol worse than abortion?  Is it ok to tell someone else what they can or cannot put in their body based on their medical status?  Are bartenders to assume that woman are pregnant if they look overweight?  Should pregnant women be banned from purchasing alcohol with their groceries as well?  Seems like a slippery slope to me.  You aren't even allowed to assume someone's gender these days, but you think a minimum wage employee is going to make the call as to whether or not a patron is pregnant and refuse them service based on this assumption?  Maybe we need to give urine tests to people before purchasing alcohol to make sure they are not a pregnant female?  Where do you draw the line?  Since we'd now be piss testing bar patrons, should they be refused alcohol if they're over the legal limit?  If other drugs are detected in their system should they be arrested? 

Bottom line to me is that people should be allowed to purchase whatever publicly available legal substances are out there, regardless of medical status.  I also think that this is a social issue and not a political one.  Bartenders and other patrons should be free to voice their opinion to the pregnant barfly and if they're willing to sit and be berated by the public for their actions, so be it.  Trying to legally halt alcohol use of pregnant women is a level of control that cannot be legitimately obtained without also giving up other freedoms and I think it is a bad direction for society to be headed.  Especially when you look at how healthcare is being socialized in the world today.  How long before you need to have a certain cholesterol level to purchase junk food? 

We get it.  Smart people know what's best for others.  Drinking while pregnant is idiotic.  However, freedom of one's body and to not be targeted for your medical condition should be a bit of a concern here.  I fully support pregnant women doing whatever they want.  I also support people voicing their opinion to make pregnant women who drink or smoke be constantly reminded of the outcome of their decision and what a shit parent they already are.

[TECSHARE]

You could argue both sides of this debate from many angles.  Is a pregnant woman drinking alcohol worse than abortion?  Is it ok to tell someone else what they can or cannot put in their body based on their medical status?  Are bartenders to assume that woman are pregnant if they look overweight?  Should pregnant women be banned from purchasing alcohol with their groceries as well?  Seems like a slippery slope to me.  You aren't even allowed to assume someone's gender these days, but you think a minimum wage employee is going to make the call as to whether or not a patron is pregnant and refuse them service based on this assumption?  Maybe we need to give urine tests to people before purchasing alcohol to make sure they are not a pregnant female?  Where do you draw the line?  Since we'd now be piss testing bar patrons, should they be refused alcohol if they're over the legal limit?  If other drugs are detected in their system should they be arrested? 

Bottom line to me is that people should be allowed to purchase whatever publicly available legal substances are out there, regardless of medical status.  I also think that this is a social issue and not a political one.  Bartenders and other patrons should be free to voice their opinion to the pregnant barfly and if they're willing to sit and be berated by the public for their actions, so be it.  Trying to legally halt alcohol use of pregnant women is a level of control that cannot be legitimately obtained without also giving up other freedoms and I think it is a bad direction for society to be headed.  Especially when you look at how healthcare is being socialized in the world today.  How long before you need to have a certain cholesterol level to purchase junk food? 

We get it.  Smart people know what's best for others.  Drinking while pregnant is idiotic.  However, freedom of one's body and to not be targeted for your medical condition should be a bit of a concern here.  I fully support pregnant women doing whatever they want.  I also support people voicing their opinion to make pregnant women who drink or smoke be constantly reminded of the outcome of their decision and what a shit parent they already are.

I totally agree with your argument from an ideological standpoint. We don't need to baby proof the world (no pun intended). My point was that the situation inherently creates liability for the server and for them to do their job according to the law, it necessitates that they have the ability to make this call. It is not the same as if it were just a person working a register at a grocery store selling alcohol, they are serving an individual with express intent to consume it on the spot creating more liability. Furthermore many states have existing regulations regarding substance use during pregnancy, and obviously allowing criminal activity on their premises is grounds for legal trouble for the venue.

[SaltySpitoon]

I agree with you as well OG, however I don't think a bar refusing to serve someone the drink is denying them the right to put something in their body. If someone wants to drink gasoline, I don't especially care, however I'm not going to be the one to put it in a glass and hand it to them. I think the best option would be for everyone to get some sense and stop being so prone to becoming outraged over stupid stuff. If a bar refuses to serve you alcohol because you are pregnant, rather than making a big deal about it, you go to another bar or a liquor store or whatever, you haven't been banned from making what most will agree is a bad choice. You absolutely have the freedom to make whatever choices you want, but you can't compel people to be a part of them.

I wonder how long it'll take before the issue is patched up? I'd imagine a law will be passed to protect bars from cases like this at some point.