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Author Topic: New mining venture - consultation sought  (Read 336 times)
WhyFhy
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August 02, 2019, 04:59:22 PM
Last edit: August 02, 2019, 11:23:16 PM by frodocooper
 #21

Ran into this.
https://submer.com/knowmore?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvo_qBRDQARIsAE-bsH_DA0VMTSzPFkOhtlfDRmtJpMjsLJi1tzbsdBOG5k0dm1MaIPY2f6QaAlraEALw_wcB
I'm sure it cost an arm and a leg but would put you on the right track quick. I've never seen the vendors until researching today.
Few quotes from the site

Unprecedented densities (>1 MW of heat extraction capacity per container).

A PUE of 1.03 anywhere in the world.
Low costs of maintenance and minimum impact on the environment.

Fast deployment in any kind of geographical area.

Put it on stilts, cover it (breatheable) ,  Slap a genny on it or tie in, buy equipment ,deploy , set and forget.
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NotFuzzyWarm
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August 02, 2019, 05:19:20 PM
Last edit: August 03, 2019, 02:07:43 AM by NotFuzzyWarm
Merited by frodocooper (2)
 #22

The major advantage to immersion cooling is that it eliminates all issues with using filter walls to clean the massive airflow miners normally require. The only airflow component is the dry cooling tower that sits outside. With a dry cooler no water is flowed over the hot exchanger, just uses high airflow and the exchanger itself cannot clog.

For ref, a dry cooler can be used because miners are quite happy running at chip temps over 60C and it is not uncommon to see 90-100C chip temps. That means that the coolant used does not have to be chilled in any way (no water/refrigeration) and even if it is 50C (122F) outside as long as the tower can keep chip temps in range you are golden. Since with immersion the chip temps pretty much = the coolant temp you can actually be circulating very warm/hot fluid and the chips will be perfectly happy.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
ozoro
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August 02, 2019, 06:07:17 PM
Last edit: August 02, 2019, 11:20:04 PM by frodocooper
 #23

@BitcoinRefiner...we still can't PM each other.....can you reach me on ozoro99atgmail?

@Notfuzywarm.....what's a dry cooler tower? For real.....miners can run in excess of 50C without fans or A/C's ? what's the downside? why don't all miners use immersion cooling?

the concept seems very interesting and dare I say revolutionary.

@WhyFhy....once again you come up trumps......I've checked out your link and I am waiting to hear back from them. But they're boasting they can reduce CapEx by 25%......maybe on the more expensive and larger roll-outs. But we wait and see what they've got to offer.....sounds really good in all manner of ways...deployment, cost, efficiency, etc
NotFuzzyWarm
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August 02, 2019, 07:22:22 PM
Last edit: August 15, 2019, 12:55:29 PM by NotFuzzyWarm
Merited by philipma1957 (3), frodocooper (3)
 #24

Ref https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooling_tower and this maker (one of many many) https://jcequipments.com/dry-cooling-tower-india.html
A dry tower simply does not use any water running over the outside of the heat exchanger that is transferring heat from the fluid to the outside air. Wet or more correctly, evaporative, cooling towers are only needed if one must produce fluid temps lower than ambient outside air temps. One company that already does the whole package for miners is https://www.engineeredfluids.com/for-crypto-currency

The temps I stated are the chip temps. Because miners are normally using air cooling and have rather limited sized heatsinks inside of them that is what sets the typical ambient air temp restrictions. Any sort of liquid cooling massively increases the effectiveness of a heat sink.

Well, BitFury's farms ARE all liquid cooled.
Why don't others do it? Aside from the time it takes to remove fans and plug in a fan simulator (to keep cgminer happy) for each miner, no idea. Seems a no-brainer to me especially if you are putting miner containers into remote areas.

Ya the fluids used to cool the miners are not cheap but still, I see no downside to it.

As for sizing the cooling tower, easy: determine how much power you are feeding the miners ( I read somewhere a typical small well can support up to around 250kw), convert to BTU's (1kw = 3412.142 BTU's), know the maximum outside air temp where the miners & towers are located, use say 60C as maximum desired fluid outlet temp from the tower and give that info to the cooling tower manufacturer.  While they will also need to know the flow rate the coolant moves at (depends on the size of miner tanks and thermal characteristics of the fluid used) they can then provide the correctly sized tower to do what you need.

Oh, and here is an announcement from a Canadian company that is doing flare gas powered mining: https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/01/22/1298376/0/en/Cryptocurrency-Mining-Operation-Launched-by-Oil-and-Gas-Producer-Iron-Bridge-Resources.html
and
https://www.jwnenergy.com/article/2018/1/junior-producer-leverages-cheap-natural-gas-mine-cryptocurrencies-rock-bottom-prices/

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
WhyFhy
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August 02, 2019, 09:54:44 PM
Last edit: August 02, 2019, 11:22:02 PM by frodocooper
 #25

I hope he chooses immersion, given his energy savings it would be well worth the investment. There's an old saying "You get what you pay for".
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August 02, 2019, 10:23:30 PM
Last edit: August 02, 2019, 11:22:33 PM by frodocooper
 #26

[...]

Apart from giving out merits how else can one like or thumbs up a response? Thanks again for such a detailed answer. Smiley
BitcoinRefiner
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August 02, 2019, 11:35:12 PM
Last edit: August 02, 2019, 11:40:36 PM by frodocooper
 #27

@BitcoinRefiner...we still can't PM each other.....can you reach me on ozoro99atgmail?

I sure can, thanks I'll send over some details.
NotFuzzyWarm
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August 03, 2019, 12:56:19 AM
Last edit: August 15, 2019, 12:50:56 PM by NotFuzzyWarm
 #28

I hope he chooses immersion, given his energy savings it would be well worth the investment. There's an old saying "You get what you pay for".
Ja. Yes the initial up-front costs are a bit higher because of using (preferably redundant) pumps and the large dry cooler plus a small basic PLC for monitoring temp/flow/other things status to keep an eye on the operations and phone home to report as needed. But the massive increase in reliability and near zero maintenance makes it perfect for unattended remote operations.

Speaking of reliability and getting what you pay for of course Canaan and their Avalon miners comes to mind. The Avalons stand out as being utterly reliable with very few failures reported vs Bitmain, Innosilicon and others. Canaan has already made announcements about immersion cooling the 841 series and I recall recently seeing mention somewhere about Canaan offering an immersion cooled A10 series version.
edit: Found the Twitter feed from Canaan about the A1047 immersion cooled miner dated July 24th this year.

I highly suggest you talk to Steven Mosher  steve@canaan.io who is Canaan's Director of Global Marketing. He is very open to communications and is a regular here in the Forum regarding major topics involving the Avalons. I think he and his company would be very interested in this venture...

Quote
Apart from giving out merits how else can one like or thumbs up a response? Thanks again for such a detailed answer.
As for apprecieation, well I do have a tips jar BTC address  1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd  in my sig....  Wink

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
ItsNotSean
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August 14, 2019, 09:40:23 PM
 #29

Is there a chance of you keeping and regularly posting a modest, anonymous log of this project? I would find the adventure to be incredibly interesting to read about.

All the spills, thrills and chills would be riveting, as would a breakdown of the financial side as your effort unfolds. We could vicariously live the life of a Crypto explorer through your reports :-)
ozoro
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August 15, 2019, 09:36:15 AM
 #30

Is there a chance of you keeping and regularly posting a modest, anonymous log of this project? I would find the adventure to be incredibly interesting to read about.

All the spills, thrills and chills would be riveting, as would a breakdown of the financial side as your effort unfolds. We could vicariously live the life of a Crypto explorer through your reports :-)

Ok, I'll see what I can do......still very much at the embryonic stage though. But posting here will probably serve as an unofficial 'push' for me to get things do Wink
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