C R Y P T O S T A M P with BITCOIN (solutions? thoughts & questions) - HELP!

[Imperial_Hash]

Hello everyone,

Some of you might have noticed the success of the austrian crypto stamp based on Ethereum. I really liked it, but
I have to admit, I still would love to see a stamp based on BTC. Maybe some of you see it like me.

Well, I assume the Austrian Post decided to take ETH because the transaction fees are cheaper and maybe it is
easier to set up so many wallet adresses, etc...

I will have a meeting with the Vice-president of the Austrian Post and want to convince him to create a BTC stamp,
but I would have some questions to you.


What would be the fastest and easiest way to create 1000-100K BTC wallet adresses?

Is there an option to get cheaper TX fees by using the lightning network?

What are your thoughts and opinions???


THANKS to everyone who contributes here and have a good time!

[bob123]

Ethereum wasn't chosen because the fees are lower or because it is easier to create so many addresses, but because it is a platform to create tokens on it.

The crypto stamp is an ERC-721 token.

You can't really reproduce this with bitcoin.


Regarding your other questions, generating 1k - 1000k addresses shouldn't take too long. A few minutes at maximum.
Depending on the implementation it might or might not save on fees with the lightning network.

How would you want to build it ? If everyone has to open a channel first, your are paying more fees (opening + closing channels = 2 TX instead of simply 1 to fund it).
And additionally the LN is still in beta and shouldn't be used with more funds than you can stand losing.


The way, the cryptostamp has been designed, it is not feasible using the bitcoin network.

[Rath_]

Is there an option to get cheaper TX fees by using the lightning network?

The Lightning Network won't be useful in this case. It is supposed to be used mostly for micro-transactions, but it also requires a specific setup to work. If you want to 'fund a stamp' with some coins then sending an on-chain transaction with the lowest possible fee (1 sat/byte) is the only reasonable choice right now.

[Imperial_Hash]

hey guys, thanks a lot for taking your time and getting back to me so quickly.

The idea would be to create 100,000 stamps with 1000 satoshi on it each.

Not much and it just would be 1 BTC, but it would be great to give BTC this honor.


Ok, in technical terms, this would be more complicated than with ETH... and probably more expensive.

I was looking for a cheap solutions, but I afraid if I use 1 satoshi per byte, I am not sure, that the TX goes through... right?

[Imperial_Hash]

and please apologize I am not the best in technical understanding of BTC.

Just try to figure out, if it is possible to keep the costs low and how to setup 100K adresses :-)

THANKS

[Rath_]

Ok, in technical terms, this would be more complicated than with ETH... and probably more expensive.

No, it should be easier. You won't have to bother with creating your own token. You will just have to send quite a few transactions to addresses you generate. Each transaction might cost you 226 satoshi depending on the type of addresses you use and the fee rate (1 sat/byte assumption here). It will be much cheaper if you fund all stamps in one transaction.

I was looking for a cheap solutions, but I afraid if I use 1 satoshi per byte, I am not sure, that the TX goes through... right?

It will go through. Take a look at the ecommended fee at this website. The fees have been really low for a long time now. 1 sat/byte transactions usually confirm within 24 hours if there is a sudden spike.

[Imperial_Hash]

Ok, thats definitely good news, that the TX go through for sure! 24h is totally fine!

So let us assume I want to create 1000 wallet adresses and send 10K satoshi to them. How would you do this?

Just asking for a rough sketch with the most important info and not the whole process :-)

[Imperial_Hash]

would you say the info here is right?

https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/1836/how-can-i-generate-a-large-number-of-bitcoin-addresses

[bob123]

So let us assume I want to create 1000 wallet adresses and send 10K satoshi to them. How would you do this?

You would simply generate 1k private keys, and derive the public keys and addresses out of it and create 1 or multiple pay-to-many transactions with your input and 10k satoshi output for each address.

To create a few thousand addresses, you can either use an own script or a wallet like electrum. Electrum needs roughly 1 second per 1k addresses (depending on your machine).


But the important question is.. what would be the sense of funding the address with 10k satoshi ?
Would you print the public-key or address as QR on the stamp ? This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What would the owner of the stamp do with it ? Import the private key ?

[Imperial_Hash]

Hey Bob, the first crypto stamp had two parts.

one side had the design plus a QR code with the public key.

the other side had the private key hidden under a scratch field.

To be honest, it is not so much about the BTC which are stored on the stamp. It is more about the collectible item, getting more support for BTC from
official institutions like the Austrian Post office.


Generating multiple adresses shouldn't be the problem though. Thanks!

[Imperial_Hash]

No, it should be easier. You won't have to bother with creating your own token. You will just have to send quite a few transactions to addresses you generate. Each transaction might cost you 226 satoshi depending on the type of addresses you use and the fee rate (1 sat/byte assumption here). It will be much cheaper if you fund all stamps in one transaction.

What do you think, would be the estimated actual costs to fund 1000 adresses with 10K Satoshi?

How can I calculate this?

And how can I fund all adresses in one transaction?


Thanks for you time!

[Rath_]

What do you think, would be the estimated actual costs to fund 1000 adresses with 10K Satoshi? How can I calculate this?

Try playing with sliders on this website. You will probably use regular (legacy) addresses. Outputs are the addresses you generate. Also, don't forget to look at the fee rate. It increases from time to time, so you will have to divide the estimated fee by it.

And how can I fund all adresses in one transaction?

Electrum allows users to include multiple outputs by entering multiple addresses and amounts in the Pay to field like this:

Code:

Address 1, amount
Address 2, amount
Address 3, amount
...

All the addresses have to be in separate lines. Otherwise, it won't work.

[bob123]

Hey Bob, the first crypto stamp had two parts.

one side had the design plus a QR code with the public key.

the other side had the private key hidden under a scratch field.

To be honest, it is not so much about the BTC which are stored on the stamp. It is more about the collectible item, getting more support for BTC from
official institutions like the Austrian Post office.

But it was a token on the ethereum blockchain.
And not simply an address owning 0.X ETH (which would be quite senseless IMO).

Those BTC stamps basically would be small paper wallets containing an insignificant amount of BTC ?

I mean.. those stamps would be kind of a gimmick, but far away from the token-stamp. Or am i missing something ?

What do you think, would be the estimated actual costs to fund 1000 adresses with 10K Satoshi?

How can I calculate this?

With 1 input and 1000 outputs, your transaction would be roughly 34000 bytes large.
With 1 sat/B, that would be roughly 4.20 USD in fees.

Whether you are using legacy or segwit doesn't play a role with so many outputs.

You can use this site to calculate transaction fees.

And how can I fund all adresses in one transaction?

This depends on the wallet you are using.
Most wallets have the ability to insert the addresses and amounts in a so-called "pay-to-many" transaction. That's at least the name for it in electrum

[Imperial_Hash]

Thanks guys, this was super useful!

[Imperial_Hash]

But it was a token on the ethereum blockchain.
And not simply an address owning 0.X ETH (which would be quite senseless IMO).

Those BTC stamps basically would be small paper wallets containing an insignificant amount of BTC ?

I mean.. those stamps would be kind of a gimmick, but far away from the token-stamp. Or am i missing something ?

hmm you are right, it just would be like a paper wallet, but still cool imho.

It wouldnt allow the option to create a digital version of the stamp... like ETH can provide.

[LoyceV]

I didn't realize you created a duplicate thread before I posted there, so I'm moving my post here. It contains some things that have been said already now. Please follow posting rules to prevent this:

Some of you might have noticed the success of the austrian crypto stamp based on Ethereum.

I didn't notice, so a link helps: Austria Post Launches 'Crypto Stamp' Collectibles on the Ethereum Blockchain.

(source)

It looks like they used some made-up Token instead of any real crypto coin.

I have to admit, I still would love to see a stamp based on BTC. Maybe some of you see it like me.

This could be combined with a Physical Bitcoin Lotto Scratch Card: get the chance to win a large amount in Bitcoin when you receive a package!

Well, I assume the Austrian Post decided to take ETH because the transaction fees are cheaper and maybe it is
easier to set up so many wallet adresses, etc...

I don't know ETH fees, but Bitcoin fees can be as low as a fraction of a dollar cent per funding address. However, it doesn't make sense to fund the addresses with dust amounts of Bitcoin, that's why a Lotto makes more sense.

What would be the fastest and easiest way to create 1000-100K BTC wallet adresses?

Most wallets can do it. bitaddress.org can do it. Vanitygen can do it.
Using proper security measures is needed though, especially when it comes to trusting a single or a few employees with private keys.

Is there an option to get cheaper TX fees by using the lightning network?

Yes, but that would require a custodian that holds the funds until someone claims them. I wouldn't recommend it for a scratch-stamp.

What are your thoughts and opinions???

Do it!

There's a risk of delivery guys scratching them though.

[HeRetiK]

If you want to create actual tokens rather than just paper wallets I think Counterparty [1] and Omni [2] are what you are looking for. Both run on the Bitcoin network; Omni most famously known for Tether (USDT) and Counterparty probably best known for... ahem... Rare Pepes. I'm not sure how alive either of these projects still are though.

As far as LN is concerned you probably still have to wait for the likes of RGB [3] to enter the stage.

[1] https://counterparty.io/
[2] https://www.omnilayer.org/
[3] https://github.com/rgb-org/spec

[WhyFhy]

I used counterpartuy concept and sweetened it up. This was a bit technical for the collectibles section and I dont think they realize how in depth my project was.


Basically the way to go about this is proof of burn that way fee's are in the past.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5150524.msg51341461#msg51341461

Please read it carefully due to my binding process , I call it "Signature Binding" to physical assets.

I would like credit for this if it in fact discussed or used.

Please notice I did not use my own note for this project but currently in talks with Polymerbit LLC to make my "Official" Proof of burn set.
I modified these notes with my concept.


*Edit* just a snippet

General Info:
These 10 Addresses represent 10 separate collectors notes with keyless wallets and funded unspendable wallet printed on them to represent a proof of burn to attempt a Face Value Note Ranging from 1001 Satoshis to 1010 Satoshis to indicate a SN This was signed AFTER printing to indicate errors and counts.

Printed on Tartadeco 1 Bitcoin  Serial Numbered Notes, these feature a security strip, UV Ink, WaterMark's, and neat European style graphics featuring a dark Bitcoin logo on one side and open golden vault on the reverse side.
I printed QR BTC address that represent bitcoin burner address (no private key available) inside a white space available on the notes along with Kevin Gates face on the bottom to represent BWA BreadWinnerAssosiation.

Funding TXID : 18d12e0216ea986f34b492dee451e23fe90230760f99525286f68c8e7408ecbe

Burned From: 1BurnedxpgN4Mk4WsVZiXU2dzDQg617fra
Burned To:
1oo1SatoshiBurnedToThisNotezFnY9j   SN=15273888 Had slight blur & grey on print. Error Note*
1oo2SatoshiBurnedToThisNotewXifau   SN=15274888
1oo3SatoshiBurnedToThisNoteyV4PNT  SN=15275888
1oo4SatoshiBurnedToThisNotew2bgze  SN=15276888 Off-center, QR is hard to read, Tear at bottom of note from template removal. Error Note*
1oo5SatoshiBurnedToThisNotex7kr7B   SN=15277888
1oo6SatoshiBurnedToThisNotefjWUL9   SN=15278888
1oo7SatoshiBurnedToThisNotew7zgdj   SN=15279888
1oo8SatoshiBurnedToThisNotez6nsd3   SN=15280888
1oo9SatoshiBurnedToThisNotedz8wvA  SN=15281888
1o1oSatoshiBurnedToThisNotex6UZZc  SN=15282888

[Kryptowerk]

Hello everyone,

Some of you might have noticed the success of the austrian crypto stamp based on Ethereum. I really liked it, but
I have to admit, I still would love to see a stamp based on BTC. Maybe some of you see it like me.

Well, I assume the Austrian Post decided to take ETH because the transaction fees are cheaper and maybe it is
easier to set up so many wallet adresses, etc...

I will have a meeting with the Vice-president of the Austrian Post and want to convince him to create a BTC stamp,
but I would have some questions to you.


What would be the fastest and easiest way to create 1000-100K BTC wallet adresses?

Is there an option to get cheaper TX fees by using the lightning network?

What are your thoughts and opinions???


THANKS to everyone who contributes here and have a good time!

Yes, Bitcoin stamp would be nice, definitly.

Two thoughts:
- If it's an "official release" by the Austrian post, a connection to the first (ETH based) crypto stamp would be important. Different colours for different addresses would still be possible with BTC. See: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Colored_Coins
So I think having the same collectible aspect on the next version of the crypto stamp would help both, the first crypto stamp as well as the 2nd one, because it creates continuity and extra collector's value.

- Due to the success of the first crypto stamp, the Austrian post may feel inclined to create an even larger amount with a 2nd generation stamp. However I believe this would be adverse in the long run (for future crypto stamp generations), as 150k was already *a lot* and an attempt to create even more would easily be construed as a quick money grab and be hurtful to the Austrian Post's public image, especially for future products.

[tranthidung]

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