BitPay -- KYC is here!

[malevolent]

Worse yet, analyzing their traffic it doesn't look like it hurt them that much. https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/shapeshift.io - https://www.similarweb.com/website/shapeshift.io

Apparently it did hurt them (financially), forcing them to lay off a third of their employees:

https://medium.com/shapeshift-stories/overcoming-shapeshifts-crypto-winter-and-the-path-ahead-73f59bb8cf13

I don't see them going back on this.

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[DaveF]

I had kind of an odd thought about this. Yeah, we know KYC is coming to a lot of places and it's going to suck. But did BitPay kind of bring this on themselves by aggressively going after the gift card market and having it bite them on the ass, forcing this sooner.
Like it / don't like it, it's a fact that gift cards over the last few years have become more and more popular as a way to launder money.
And now bitpay has this  https://bitpay.com/directory/gift-cards/
I just wound up with some BTC that I want to "cash out" but don't want to convert to fiat for tax or other legal reasons. Here is a bunch of ways for me to spend it.
Want a vacation? Delta and hotels.com and uber for getting around once you get there.
Want food? At least 20+ Restaurants, uber eats, whole foods, etc.
Amazon for just about everything else.

Yes some of those are going to be somewhat trackable. (airline / hotel) some are going to be a little trackable (Amazon.) But do you really thing if I convert to a bunch of those other cards you are really going to be able to track me.

Same with some of their clients. With egifter.com I can convert to a "real" (virtual) visa card. Not a lot, it's only up to $100 and you are paying a $5.95 fee on it. But if my BTC is less then legitimate, who cares....

As I started this post with, it was coming no mater what. I think for these reasons it came sooner.

Just my view.

-Dave

[Baofeng]

Here is something to look at,  . Someone with the name of Alex Kaul, https://twitter.com/alex_kaul started this campaign. And probably a lot of merchants have been looking at BTCPay Server as an alternative as well. So let's see how it goes, 

DeBitpay Directory

Wanted to buy something with Bitcoin, but the merchant uses BitPay (anti-Bitcoin service)? Find alternatives accepting Bitcoin without it.

https://debitpay.directory/

[Slow death]

Now it's probably on all news channels:

BitPay Now Requires Your Photo ID for Purchases Over $3K in Bitcoin

With the launch of BitPay ID, users will be required to undergo a one-time verification process that requires the input of data such as their Social Security or passport number, as well as a photo ID.

The requirement applies in cases where users attempt to make a high-value payment of $3,000 or more to a BitPay merchant, to request a refund of $1,000 or more, to receive BitPay payouts or to get a BitPay prepaid product.

It seems that everything will now be necessary to do KYC. The downside is that they ask people to do KYC for $3000. if only it was something like more than 1 BTC or 3 BTC.

Here is something to look at,  . Someone with the name of Alex Kaul, https://twitter.com/alex_kaul started this campaign. And probably a lot of merchants have been looking at BTCPay Server as an alternative as well. So let's see how it goes, 

DeBitpay Directory

Wanted to buy something with Bitcoin, but the merchant uses BitPay (anti-Bitcoin service)? Find alternatives accepting Bitcoin without it.

https://debitpay.directory/

I do not think it is a very reliable service and is the first time I see this site

[PrimeNumber7]

Worse yet, analyzing their traffic it doesn't look like it hurt them that much. https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/shapeshift.io - https://www.similarweb.com/website/shapeshift.io

Apparently it did hurt them (financially), forcing them to lay off a third of their employees:

https://medium.com/shapeshift-stories/overcoming-shapeshifts-crypto-winter-and-the-path-ahead-73f59bb8cf13

I don't see them going back on this.

Many altcoin prices declined 90-95% from their 2017-18 ATH so even if trading volumes remained steady, revenue would have declined by a similar percentage. Being an altcoin exchange (no /fiat, or /stablecoin pairs), Shapeshift would have been hit especially hard.

There was so much growth in 2017 that most exchanges were likely severely understaffed at the 2017 ATH and were understaffed for most of that year and even in the beginning of 2018.

[STT]

I know at least one exchange outsourced their KYC and I'd prefer they all did this so that an industry wide consensus forms.     Also a company that can be modular in this way is less likely to become a victim of the peaks and troughs to crypto supply demand.   Seems like its always best for the industry to be inter connected not singular or centralised in processing customers.

bitpay is obviously terrified of regulators and are highly likely to go above and beyond their perceived obligations.

They are a company with investors who see themselves as needing to protect revenue streams I think.   Regulators and the government in general can be a bit heavy handed, maybe they got the word they should do this or just guessed it was the safest route for protecting themselves vs any negatives.

I think crypto is best peer to peer if red tape and government is not wanted, its not just this sector every business that operates has to carry the burden of various rules and regulations that form pitfalls for their business plans.

[BitHodler]

They are a company with investors who see themselves as needing to protect revenue streams I think.   Regulators and the government in general can be a bit heavy handed, maybe they got the word they should do this or just guessed it was the safest route for protecting themselves vs any negatives.

A company with toxic backers is a better way to phrase it. I would love to figure out what Roger and Bitmain's stake in the company is. It definitely isn't below the 50% mark collectively, otherwise they wouldn't be this authoritative.

They will do just about enough to remain compliant-- knowing how anti government Roger is, it will not be more than that. This scammer values his own ego above the success of the company he helped grow out this large.

I'm waiting for the day his shitcoin dot com site launches its own payment gateway that works similar to how BTCPay works. It's a product in line with the rest of his recently launched products and services.

[Raja_MBZ]

Has someone around tried to use BitPay multiple times with the maximum "continue as a guest" limit? Like three purchases of $2999 each (equivalent to $8997) in a single day using the same IP address? If it works, it can help the users depositing BTC to services like Skrill/Neteller with no KYC requirement.

[1Referee]

I would love to figure out what Roger and Bitmain's stake in the company is. It definitely isn't below the 50% mark collectively, otherwise they wouldn't be this authoritative.

According to wikipedia Roger Ver wasn't the only early bird investor. I think the general consensus amongst the backers of BitPay is mainly that they support the big blocker ideology and for that reason have an incentive to promote BCash over Bitcoin. Another option is that Roger Ver is generously rewarding them for supporting BCash, but the first option is more likely.

Bitcoiners are very much anti altcoins, and that applies to these big blockers as well, even though they support an altcoin too, because that's what BCash is. BitPay for that reason will not offer support to any other altcoin even though it might give their business a financial boost. A move I could respect if they were on our side.

[stfN2128]

Now it's probably on all news channels:

BitPay Now Requires Your Photo ID for Purchases Over $3K in Bitcoin

With the launch of BitPay ID, users will be required to undergo a one-time verification process that requires the input of data such as their Social Security or passport number, as well as a photo ID.

The requirement applies in cases where users attempt to make a high-value payment of $3,000 or more to a BitPay merchant, to request a refund of $1,000 or more, to receive BitPay payouts or to get a BitPay prepaid product.

It seems that everything will now be necessary to do KYC. The downside is that they ask people to do KYC for $3000. if only it was something like more than 1 BTC or 3 BTC.

Here is something to look at,  . Someone with the name of Alex Kaul, https://twitter.com/alex_kaul started this campaign. And probably a lot of merchants have been looking at BTCPay Server as an alternative as well. So let's see how it goes, 

DeBitpay Directory



Wanted to buy something with Bitcoin, but the merchant uses BitPay (anti-Bitcoin service)? Find alternatives accepting Bitcoin without it.

https://debitpay.directory/

I do not think it is a very reliable service and is the first time I see this site

so it's only needed for purchases which are more than 3k usd? any news or infos that they are going to set this limit way more down?

[gentlemand]

According to wikipedia Roger Ver wasn't the only early bird investor. I think the general consensus amongst the backers of BitPay is mainly that they support the big blocker ideology and for that reason have an incentive to promote BCash over Bitcoin. Another option is that Roger Ver is generously rewarding them for supporting BCash, but the first option is more likely.

Bitcoiners are very much anti altcoins, and that applies to these big blockers as well, even though they support an altcoin too, because that's what BCash is. BitPay for that reason will not offer support to any other altcoin even though it might give their business a financial boost. A move I could respect if they were on our side.

I can see why they got pissed off with Bitcoin not scaling however the option to scale has been right there waiting for them to implement yet there is zero sign of them doing it. That's in line with blockchain.com too which has Roger's fingers up it too.

Plenty of businesses dislike the thing they work with yet they make the best of it. It's clear Bcash is never going to 'win' now and Bitpay's mention of figures have always been massively Bitcoin heavy.

Dunno whether it's in grudge territory now or just bone idleness. I know they may have a sprawling back end but so do other places that did integrate Segwit and Bitpay regularly tinker/irritate.

As for KYC, buying and demanding a refund is pretty standard money laundering. I doubt they want to do it. Write to one's local politician. Nothing much Bitpay can do.

[TryNinja]

so it's only needed for purchases which are more than 3k usd? any news or infos that they are going to set this limit way more down?

For now it's only $3k+ purchases. But soon they will start asking for it if they think anything is ""suspicious""... mark my words. Honestly, we should just show them how bad we think they are becoming by moving on to another company.

[figmentofmyass]

so it's only needed for purchases which are more than 3k usd? any news or infos that they are going to set this limit way more down?

For now it's only $3k+ purchases. But soon they will start asking for it if they think anything is ""suspicious""... mark my words.

they've already put terms front and center saying the thresholds are subject to change. this is just a taster as they prepare for more AML regulations to come in. once governments start passing laws in line with the FATF rules, they'll bump the threshold down from $3k to $1k for sure.

Honestly, we should just show them how bad we think they are becoming by moving on to another company.

the options aren't extensive. most merchants offer only bitpay as an option. egifter integrated netcents but they suck since they require 6 confirmations to release goods. bitpay at least just makes you wait for 1.

[btc_enigma]

You can switch to other payment processors that don't require KYC
https://github.com/alexk111/awesome-bitcoin-payment-processors

Feel free to also have a look at blockonomics
https://www.blockonomics.co/merchants

[1Referee]

I can see why they got pissed off with Bitcoin not scaling however the option to scale has been right there waiting for them to implement yet there is zero sign of them doing it. That's in line with blockchain.com too which has Roger's fingers up it too.

If they get pissed off with Bitcoin for not scaling they don't understand Bitcoin. Scaling Bitcoin is not something you can force through someone's throat like what happens with BCash where they can fork at any desired date and get it through without problems. Bitcoin isn't designed to favor their business model.

I think the main reason they do not want to implement Segwit is that it deems their BCash near worthless with how Bitcoin's fees would be so low, that BCash's only advantage (which is provide low fee transactions) isn't longer a selling feature. I believe that these fools have been stupid enough to convert their Bitcoin to BCash when it forked off.

We sold our BCash probably to these entities at +0.2BTC rates so they're sitting on very expensive coins right now. We've seen Bitmain's balance sheet to know that they have gone balls deep in BCash.

[buwaytress]

so it's only needed for purchases which are more than 3k usd? any news or infos that they are going to set this limit way more down?

For now it's only $3k+ purchases. But soon they will start asking for it if they think anything is ""suspicious""... mark my words. Honestly, we should just show them how bad we think they are becoming by moving on to another company.

Anyone saw the Amazon fires charity fiasco a couple of days ago?

Apparently, someone tried to donate $100k to a charity but the payment didn't go through and there was no way for the charity to get in touch. So cue Twitter support and public barrage of how poorly the situation was handled (basically, they asked the charity to upgrade their account, but then an automated email verification failed etc etc.).

Hope it was a lesson to them about Bitpay and accepting Bitcoin. But this KYC complication is going to start causing a lot of problems.

[TryNinja]

Anyone saw the Amazon fires charity fiasco a couple of days ago?

Apparently, someone tried to donate $100k to a charity but the payment didn't go through and there was no way for the charity to get in touch. So cue Twitter support and public barrage of how poorly the situation was handled (basically, they asked the charity to upgrade their account, but then an automated email verification failed etc etc.).

Hope it was a lesson to them about Bitpay and accepting Bitcoin. But this KYC complication is going to start causing a lot of problems.

Yeah, I saw that a few hours ago and was actually trying to find a post about BitPay to shit on them a little bit more. Pretty lame situation.

For those who want to read more: https://bitcoinist.com/bitpay-under-fire-for-rejecting-100k-bitcoin-amazon-rainforest-donation/

[BitHodler]

Hope it was a lesson to them about Bitpay and accepting Bitcoin. But this KYC complication is going to start causing a lot of problems.

BitPay has recently changed its terms. It was big news. It's plain stupid for anyone to donate an amount like that through a compliant payment gateway. You're basically asking for problems by doing that.

No matter how much I dislike BitPay, they just did what they were supposed to do when it comes to amounts of that order. How can you expect them to process it? The person donating the $100k could have prevented this drama.

The only thing you can blame BitPay for is the lack of communication, but then again, this is nothing new-- it's getting harder and harder to get in touch with companies the larger they become.

[swirl]

Has someone around tried to use BitPay multiple times with the maximum "continue as a guest" limit? Like three purchases of $2999 each (equivalent to $8997) in a single day using the same IP address? If it works, it can help the users depositing BTC to services like Skrill/Neteller with no KYC requirement.

i dont have option "continue as a guest", have only "continue"
happened in Skrill.
it is not about limits at all.
seems Skrill cant(dont want) vouch for me to their partner Bitpay and prefer to make some pain to me who happens to be their full verified client

[figmentofmyass]

Has someone around tried to use BitPay multiple times with the maximum "continue as a guest" limit? Like three purchases of $2999 each (equivalent to $8997) in a single day using the same IP address? If it works, it can help the users depositing BTC to services like Skrill/Neteller with no KYC requirement.

i dont have option "continue as a guest", have only "continue"
happened in Skrill.
it is not about limits at all.
seems Skrill cant(dont want) vouch for me to their partner Bitpay and prefer to make some pain to me who happens to be their full verified client

what are you using skrill for---USD to BTC conversion? i've been digging around and i'm not sure exactly what constitutes a "bitpay payout" but i believe it's when the vendor takes dollars and pays the customer in BTC, using bitpay to convert. i think it may apply here. according to bitpay's new terms, people receiving "bitpay payouts" in any amount must now complete KYC. the same requirements are only triggered otherwise if you are purchasing $3000+ or getting refunded $1000+.