Sats rather than Bitcoin - will it cause a price pump?

[Baronets]

As Bitcoin increases in value, I'm noticing that a few people are quoting prices in Sats rather than Bitcoin. One US dollar is currently worth about 9,400 Sats, and if Bitcoin continues to increase, fractional prices will start to become an inconvenience. Share prices often increase when there is a share split, and the use of Sats rather than Bitcoin is very much like a share split. Do you think that this will increase the appeal of Bitcoin, and thus increase the price?

Maybe the long term investors amongst us should encourage the use of "Satoshis", or the more affectionate "Sats".

[1714929975]

1714929975

[o_e_l_e_o]

I prefer denominating things in mBTC for the time being. BTC is too large for small USD values, and sats is too small for large USD values, whereas mBTC lies somewhere in the middle.

USD	BTC	Sats	mBTC
$1	0.000094 BTC	9,400 sats	0.094 mBTC
$10	0.00094 BTC	94,000 sats	0.94 mBTC
$100	0.0094 BTC	940,000 sats	9.4 mBTC
$1000	0.094 BTC	9,400,000 sats	94 mBTC

Try saying all of those out loud. Zero point zero zero zero zero nine four is awkward, as is nine million four hundred thousand. mBTC is (at current prices) the most easily workable denomination, and also avoids having to count zeros, which you have to do when dealing in BTC or if someone doesn't include the commas in satoshi.

Satoshi could well become the denomination of choice in the future, but at the moment, I think mBTC is the easiest to work with both visually and verbally.

[LTU_btc]

I believe that Satoshis will be used more often, but not at this stage, we need much bigger price for it. Still, I have no doubts that 1 full Bitcoin will remain to be main number, no matter of price.
@o_e_l_e_o, mBTC been used on gambling websites for long years already, but personally for me this denomination isn't very convenient. I use it rarely and I simply can't remember how much 1 mBTC is converted into Bitcoin. So, I prefer Satoshis for small amounts.

[Artemis3]

I prefer denominating things in mBTC for the time being. BTC is too large for small USD values, and sats is too small for large USD values, whereas mBTC lies somewhere in the middle.

USD	BTC	Sats	mBTC
$1	0.000094 BTC	9,400 sats	0.094 mBTC
$10	0.00094 BTC	94,000 sats	0.94 mBTC
$100	0.0094 BTC	940,000 sats	9.4 mBTC
$1000	0.094 BTC	9,400,000 sats	94 mBTC

Try saying all of those out loud. Zero point zero zero zero zero nine four is awkward, as is nine million four hundred thousand. mBTC is (at current prices) the most easily workable denomination, and also avoids having to count zeros, which you have to do when dealing in BTC or if someone doesn't include the commas in satoshi.

Satoshi could well become the denomination of choice in the future, but at the moment, I think mBTC is the easiest to work with both visually and verbally.

We do this everyday here. Some people for speed just skip the zeroes. If someone says 94, it means 94 thousand, or they say 940 for 940 thousand.

mBTC is garbage because, it has both non decimals and decimals. Give me a brake decimals from decimals? Get lost.
Also "at current prices", is your biggest flaw. You cannot push a BIP over something that can and WILL change and is outside of Bitcoin to begin with.

If my internet wasn't garbage i would show you pictures of prices. Restaurant menus, shops, everything is expressed like satoshis, now that my currency is 75% the value of a satoshi. You should go to history, since you never lived a reality with hyperinflation, how did people lived with those zeroes, and you will find the same answer. Some Euro countries did have fun with zeroes before the €, but Americans and British have no idea.

Do not try to force an euro / dollar centric view on prices. Satoshis do work FINE, mBTC do not. A hundred million satoshis isn't even hard, i will refrain from talking about the Pengo, everyone loves the Pengo, socialist central planified economy at its best...

PS: If our current gov doesn't fall, we WILL dethrone Hungary, but first Zimbabwe...

[stompix]

mBTC is garbage because, it has both non decimals and decimals. Give me a brake decimals from decimals? Get lost.
Also "at current prices", is your biggest flaw. You cannot push a BIP over something that can and WILL change and is outside of Bitcoin to begin with.

PS: If our current gov doesn't fall, we WILL dethrone Hungary, but first Zimbabwe...

Just because some countries weigh their banknotes rather than counting them it's not an argument.
I've been doing about 10 purchases last month and I clearly remember that just one was in satoshi, 419473463 stuff that got me thinking.... damn those guys, till the last fifth of a cent are you going to charge me?

And the same argument for you about current prices, what will happen when bitcoin hits 1 million?
By bye Eurocents, bye-bye penny cause we can't calculate them anymore?

I actually find the mbit pretty helpfull while bitcoin hovers in the x thousands area, 1 mbit is /1000 of it.
Is bitcoin 3000$ dollars, a mbit is 3$,  is BTC 12.5k then a mbit is 12.5$.
Since most than 99% of the things in Europe are above 0.1 mbit, it pretty easy, I actually changed all my wallets to show the balance in mbits, especially since I never hold more than 100-200 in my spending wallets.

[pooya87]

Satoshi could well become the denomination of choice in the future, but at the moment, I think mBTC is the easiest to work with both visually and verbally.

mBTC seems good in theory but in action i have seen many people having trouble with the unit conversion not knowing how much 1 mBTC is for example. so it may cause a lot more confusion. Satoshi unit on the other hand is more convenient since usually people know there are 8 decimal places after 1BTC. and we can always use both, BTC for large amounts and Satoshi for small ones. (ninety four hundred sat seems easy to say)

[bryant.coleman]

Right now one Satoshi is worth just $0.0001, and in my opinion there is no point in using such a small denomination. We should rather be using mBTC instead of BTC. As pr the current exchange rates, one BTC is equivalent to $11,800 and one mBTC is equal to $11.80. The Bitcoin price has increased over the years and since most of the users look at the price per unit rather than the total market capitalization, it gives an impression that Bitcoin is much more expensive that it actually is.

Rather than quoting the prices in mBTC, my suggestion is to redenominate Bitcoin. Currently we have a circulating supply of 17.865 million coins and a total supply of 21 million. Why can't we split all the existing Bitcoins by 10,000 through a hard fork? That will bring the price to $1.18 per coin, and much closer to the per unit value of US Dollar. The circulating supply would increase to 178.65 billion and the total supply would increase to 210 billion. And no one would ever complain that Bitcoin is expensive.

[Periodik]

I also prefer to use Sat/s or the full version Satoshi/s. There will certainly come a time when the ones who will use BTC are the rich ones, talking about huge amounts and transactions, while those who are at the lower level will be talking about Sats. Moreover, if the adoption will reach its peak and people are already buying small stuff and daily needs in BTC, for sure it will be about Sats, say 10K Sats or 15K Sats. In fact, it is already coming handy these days, rather than saying 0.001 BTC or the confusing 1 mBTC.

[mk4]

Yes, I actually think using a smaller denomination of bitcoin on exchanges and on marketcap sites will cause the bitcoin price and dominance to go higher regardless if it's sats or mBTC. While most people know that you can own a fraction of a bitcoin, unit bias exists among people. There are some people that buy XRP and other sub $1-$10 coins because "the price is low".

[o_e_l_e_o]

mBTC is garbage because, it has both non decimals and decimals.

So do most fiat systems, and no one has issues discerning the difference between $1.50 and $15.

You cannot push a BIP over something that can and WILL change and is outside of Bitcoin to begin with.

Who said anything about a BIP? I even agreed Satoshi is likely to become the denomination of choice in the future. I'm not trying to force anyone else to use mBTC, simply stating that I find it the easiest denomination to work in at current prices.

If my internet wasn't garbage i would show you pictures of prices. Restaurant menus, shops, everything is expressed like satoshis, now that my currency is 75% the value of a satoshi.

And I could show you similar pictures or screenshots of sites with prices in mBTC. Each to their own. The only time I personally use sats is when talking about fees.

[hatshepsut93]

Satoshi could well become the denomination of choice in the future, but at the moment, I think mBTC is the easiest to work with both visually and verbally.

mBTC seems good in theory but in action i have seen many people having trouble with the unit conversion not knowing how much 1 mBTC is for example. so it may cause a lot more confusion. Satoshi unit on the other hand is more convenient since usually people know there are 8 decimal places after 1BTC. and we can always use both, BTC for large amounts and Satoshi for small ones. (ninety four hundred sat seems easy to say)

Maybe Americans aren't used to metric system, but the rest of the world already uses on a daily basis units with milli-, like millimeters and milliliters, so mBTC if very intuitive for them. The problem with satoshi is that it's just too much decimals right now. If you want to buy something for a few bucks online, you'd already have to deal with 4-5 digits, while mBTC will have only 1-2 digits. Bitcoins and satoshis are not enough, 8 orders of magnitude is just too much, we need some middle ground, and mBTC is the perfect candidate, because it's intuitive to people who use metric system.

[Baronets]

I don't really like mBTC. It seems to be an uncomfortable representation. I hope that Ksats will start to appear asBitcoin goes up in value. That fits in with established weights and measures representation.

[sunsilk]

For lightning network transactions the term sats is more preferable because TX's there are lower.

I've been using mBTC sometimes but most of the time I just use btc as label because I get used to it. Both for me are good rather than with a lot of zeroes for satoshi's although it has been labeled to credit Satoshi Nakamoto.

[mk4]

I don't really like mBTC. It seems to be an uncomfortable representation. I hope that Ksats will start to appear asBitcoin goes up in value. That fits in with established weights and measures representation.

It's mostly just because mBTC is barely used besides just a few websites/services. I can see people getting used to mBTC like how some people are sort of(?) slowly getting used to sats because of a good number of lightning wallets defaulting with sats and not btc.

[Lizzylove1]

Sats will always be use more since it's the unit of bitcoin and it easily quote the value without the stress of struggling to stress-fully quote the decimal place in bitcoin when one is invoked  in mere discussion and price speculation.

[Lauren Smith]

I prefer denominating things in mBTC for the time being. BTC is too large for small USD values, and sats is too small for large USD values, whereas mBTC lies somewhere in the middle.

USD	BTC	Sats	mBTC
$1	0.000094 BTC	9,400 sats	0.094 mBTC
$10	0.00094 BTC	94,000 sats	0.94 mBTC
$100	0.0094 BTC	940,000 sats	9.4 mBTC
$1000	0.094 BTC	9,400,000 sats	94 mBTC

Try saying all of those out loud. Zero point zero zero zero zero nine four is awkward, as is nine million four hundred thousand. mBTC is (at current prices) the most easily workable denomination, and also avoids having to count zeros, which you have to do when dealing in BTC or if someone doesn't include the commas in satoshi.

Satoshi could well become the denomination of choice in the future, but at the moment, I think mBTC is the easiest to work with both visually and verbally.

This makes the most sense. I don't know why there are people arguing about this mBTC makes a lot of sense. 1000kb is 1mb 1000ml is 1 litre. Satoshi is best for fees like you said you your other post.

It is basically bit cents 100 cents is 1 btc. 1mbtc is 1/10 of a bit cent. Much easier that way. Otherwise you can use satoshi and say "I will spend 4 and a half bit cents cents today" "I will spend 1 cent and 350k satoshi" Or even "Today I will spend 3.35 bit cents. Below 1 bit cent you can use satoshi.

[bitart]

...
Satoshi could well become the denomination of choice in the future, but at the moment, I think mBTC is the easiest to work with both visually and verbally.

This makes the most sense. I don't know why there are people arguing about this mBTC makes a lot of sense. 1000kb is 1mb 1000ml is 1 litre. Satoshi is best for fees like you said you your other post.

It is basically bit cents 100 cents is 1 btc. 1mbtc is 1/10 of a bit cent. Much easier that way. Otherwise you can use satoshi and say "I will spend 4 and a half bit cents cents today" "I will spend 1 cent and 350k satoshi" Or even "Today I will spend 3.35 bit cents. Below 1 bit cent you can use satoshi.

1024 kb is 1 mb (Sorry for nitpicking )

On the other hand , I agree with you, mbtc is a possible solution. I'm fine with x Ksat and other similar things but the less zeroes before or after the decimal point makes a number the easiest to recognize, and as long as BTC will stay in the 10K USD range (I mean unless it will skyrocket to 100K USD or 1000K USD, but this is not a problem of today I guess ) this mBTC seems a good solution for now.

[Artemis3]

Right now one Satoshi is worth just $0.0001, and in my opinion there is no point in using such a small denomination. We should rather be using mBTC instead of BTC. As pr the current exchange rates, one BTC is equivalent to $11,800 and one mBTC is equal to $11.80. The Bitcoin price has increased over the years and since most of the users look at the price per unit rather than the total market capitalization, it gives an impression that Bitcoin is much more expensive that it actually is.

Rather than quoting the prices in mBTC, my suggestion is to redenominate Bitcoin. Currently we have a circulating supply of 17.865 million coins and a total supply of 21 million. Why can't we split all the existing Bitcoins by 10,000 through a hard fork? That will bring the price to $1.18 per coin, and much closer to the per unit value of US Dollar. The circulating supply would increase to 178.65 billion and the total supply would increase to 210 billion. And no one would ever complain that Bitcoin is expensive.

That's because you use USD, we don't(can't). To us (at this moment), a bitcoin is roughly 175 million to buy and 160 million to sell. A bitcoin is just 100 million satoshis.

The mBTC is clearly an $€ centrist point of view.

Re-denomination isn't bad per-se. It shouldn't really require a hardfork, simply an informational bip so that people stop calling 100 million satoshis 1 bitcoin.

The BIP could say something along the lines of: from now on, 1 bitcoin is not 100 million satoshis, but 100 thousand satoshis (100 000 000 to 100 000) if you were to please the $€ centrist mBTC crowd. Therefore there would be not 21 million bitcoins, but 21 billion (short scale) or 21 milliard (long scale).

Then those with 1 BTC would now have 1000 BTC, but in reality nothing else is changing, that's what re-denomination is about. You just turn mBTC into BTC and BTC into 1000 BTCs. Simple.

Unfortunately this also brings confusion. I know we have lived 3 re-denominations here in the past two decades, and the last one wasn't even a year ago, given hyperinflation dynamics, i expect another one soon and sooner until the useless idiots in power give up having a local coin, like what happened to Zimbabwe...

In the meantime, I'll stick calling things in either bitcoins or satoshis. I'm not going to deal with mBTC cents, thank you very much.

[adzino]

As Bitcoin increases in value, I'm noticing that a few people are quoting prices in Sats rather than Bitcoin. One US dollar is currently worth about 9,400 Sats, and if Bitcoin continues to increase, fractional prices will start to become an inconvenience. Share prices often increase when there is a share split, and the use of Sats rather than Bitcoin is very much like a share split. Do you think that this will increase the appeal of Bitcoin, and thus increase the price?

Maybe the long term investors amongst us should encourage the use of "Satoshis", or the more affectionate "Sats".

Ok, I understand what you are trying to say. The value of bitcoin is too high so when talking about smaller value, instead of saying BTC we can use satoshi. But how the hell is this going to cause a price pump? You think people will start buying more just because we now call smaller/fractional coins satoshi? We have been using the terms satoshi, mBTC and μBTC ( microbtc rarely used though) from the very beginning. This is nothing new.

[malevolent]

We do this everyday here. Some people for speed just skip the zeroes. If someone says 94, it means 94 thousand, or they say 940 for 940 thousand.

mBTC is garbage because, it has both non decimals and decimals. Give me a brake decimals from decimals? Get lost.
Also "at current prices", is your biggest flaw. You cannot push a BIP over something that can and WILL change and is outside of Bitcoin to begin with.

If my internet wasn't garbage i would show you pictures of prices. Restaurant menus, shops, everything is expressed like satoshis, now that my currency is 75% the value of a satoshi. You should go to history, since you never lived a reality with hyperinflation, how did people lived with those zeroes, and you will find the same answer. Some Euro countries did have fun with zeroes before the €, but Americans and British have no idea.

Do not try to force an euro / dollar centric view on prices. Satoshis do work FINE, mBTC do not. A hundred million satoshis isn't even hard, i will refrain from talking about the Pengo, everyone loves the Pengo, socialist central planified economy at its best...

PS: If our current gov doesn't fall, we WILL dethrone Hungary, but first Zimbabwe...

I could say the same, you're looking at this from a perspective of someone living in a country with hyperinflation. Most people live in countries where the inflation is in the single digits per year, and to them mBTC will make more sense, at least at current BTC exchange rates. Ideally all Bitcoin clients should have the option to switch between all major units. I find it more convenient when the prices don't have too many digits and I don't have to guess like you described it what unit someone's using if it's not clearly marked.