Bitstamp - Fees increased by at least 100%

[jbdee]

Since few days, 20 August 2019 exactly, Bitstamp changed its fees:
https://www.bitstamp.net/article/upcoming-changes-fee-schedule/

Trading fees: start at 0.50%
Previously: start at 0.25%
+100%

Crypto withdrawal fees:
•   Bitcoin: 0.0005 BTC
•   Ethereum: 0.001 ETH
•   XRP: 0.02 XRP
•   Bitcoin Cash: 0.0001 BCH
•   Litecoin: 0.001 LTC

Previously: 0
+∞%

So basically, for BTC with the current rate, they increased the withdrawal fee from $0 to $5. 

SEPA withdrawal fee: 3.00 EUR
Previously: 0.90 EUR
+333%

SEPA transfers are mostly free everywhere in Europe.

Bitstamp was one of my favorite exchange because it is really reliable and the fees were honest, but now it's too much, and they didn't even directly warn their customers.
 

[gentlemand]

Zero fee crypto withdrawals must have cost them a substantial amount of money over the years so that makes sense.

As for the other fees, if you trade over 10 billion dollars per month you get them free so that's something to aim for. I've seen worse fee schedules out there but it could add up if you're small fry.

[jbdee]

They are sending BTC by batch so for one withdrawal they pay almost nothing...

"if you trade over 10 billion dollars per month you get them free so that's something to aim for."

You'll still have to pay the fee for the first 10 billions, it is more than 0.05%.
So, let's still take 0.05% for easy calculations, for 10 000 000 000 USD, it is 5 000 000 USD of fees MINIMUM.
I don't know many people capable of paying 5 millions of fees. OK, if someone is REALLY RICH, it's not impossible.

But:

The 24H volume on Bitstamp is 124 000 000 USD, for 30 days it's 3 720 000 000 (3.72 billions), for all the users.
It is far from the 10 billions that A SINGLE USER has to trade to get the next trades for free.

So no one gets the free trading fee you're talking about.

The new fees they just set are OK, it's just that they didn't warn their customers and the increase is really huge.

[2double0]

Their services, their rules. We are bound to follow what they have set just because they had been providing it for less and it may have costed them more then and exchanges have a budget to keep it going, so here I think that Bitstamp wanted a bit more share of the volume they are pursuing.

If you are open to advice, try Cobinhood. Their trading fees is 0 and you only pay deposit and withdrawal fees as shown here - https://cryptoins.io/post/cobinhood-fee

[jbdee]

They should have warned directly their customers before increasing the fees that much, I posted this thread to warn people using it.

Cobinhood is dead (more like a zombie) for a while, they don't have volume, not even 2500 USD over the last 24 hours...

[tsaroz]

This is a certain demise of the exchange. With every new exchange coming with improvements and more competitive fees, it would certainly be a leap backwards for bitstamp.
With people actively moving towards newer experience, it would be difficult for old exchanges to keep up with their volumes. Experienced users would gradually move towards DEX for crypto to crypto exchange as they get easier and cheaper.

[gentlemand]

This is a certain demise of the exchange. With every new exchange coming with improvements and more competitive fees, it would certainly be a leap backwards for bitstamp.
With people actively moving towards newer experience, it would be difficult for old exchanges to keep up with their volumes. Experienced users would gradually move towards DEX for crypto to crypto exchange as they get easier and cheaper.

I'd say the opposite. As time goes on it becomes clearer and clearer that most people operating exchanges are morons. Bitstamp will have earned plenty of loyalty so they'll be confident of retaining most of their customers.

In future exchanges will consolidate into behemoths while the middle ground withers. There'll be thousands scrabbling around for scraps at the bottom but go to any at your own risk.

[squatter]

Gemini significantly raised their fees recently too. Coinbase Pro did as well not long before that. Licensing and regulatory compliance costs are undoubtedly rising in this climate, and these are all "legitimate" licensed exchanges who are upping their fees.

Now that they've established a solid market share, they're ensuring profitability. Can't blame them.

[jbdee]

It is normal that they want to make money, but the withdrawal fees are are higher than the real fees.
For Bitstamp, I can't stand they doubled trading fees and set these withdrawal fees (it is the "normal" fees on many exchanges but it is still higher than the real fees).
If you guys know a good exchange, where you can deposit/withdraw EUR by SEPA, with low fees, let me know!

[1Referee]

It will mainly affect the lower tier traders while the whales will just have to buy/sell into their own order once or twice to significantly reduce their fees.

I'm a Bitstamp user too and I don't really mind it. I'm not a day or swing trader. I do some occasional longer term buy low sell high spot 'trading' where I only start cashing out profits when I'm up at least 25%. 0.5% is just a fart in that regard.

It's also a convenient measure to get rid of those micro scalpers. They cost the exchange more in bandwidth than they get in fees from them. Good riddance. Quality over quantity.

[stomachgrowls]

Changes can happen anytime and as a user you wont have any choice but to deal with it.
Imagine on how much they had spent for zero withdrawal fee for over the years and they have seen that it would be unsustainable if they
would still continue it out or too much expense on their end if theres no changes and since these exchangers are businesses its just normal
for them to change it up to lessen up expense and getting optimum profitability- same goes with its trading fees.

[LeGaulois]

They slapped the users hard. They sent the payments in batch so it didn't cost them that much. It may also be a way to rethink their infrastructures with wallets storage. I know it's not the first exchange changing its mind regarding this. In the old-time, it was something more common if you remember.

The 3€ SEPA withdrawal fee is just a joke, wow their banking partner make a lot of money

If you guys know a good exchange, where you can deposit/withdraw EUR by SEPA, with low fees, let me know!

Yes, Kraken.com (max 0.16%-0.26%) and it works like a clock. I used many times and never got any problem with banking transactions. (SEPA transfers take less than 24h often)

edit: SEPA deposits are free and 0.09€ per withdraw

[gentlemand]

Gemini significantly raised their fees recently too. Coinbase Pro did as well not long before that. Licensing and regulatory compliance costs are undoubtedly rising in this climate, and these are all "legitimate" licensed exchanges who are upping their fees.

Now that they've established a solid market share, they're ensuring profitability. Can't blame them.

Can't the Gemini fees be reverted if you apply for a certain status? I also believe fees are higher through their app.

It'll be interesting to see if some of these places attempt to push their customers to breaking point with charges. There must be a level where they start to think about shopping elsewhere no matter how legit the exchange is.

If I were running an exchange I'd be pretty discerning about potentially pushing volume away. Once it's gone it rarely returns.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Crypto withdrawal fees:
•   Bitcoin: 0.0005 BTC

The above is what caught my eye--that's a lot to withdraw bitcoin, but I think Yobit's fee is something like 0.0012BTC, which is even worse.  It would be nice if, instead of the exchanges charging you to withdraw your coins, they'd let you just choose the fee like you'd do with any other wallet.  I understand that's part of most exchanges' business model, but man....when bitcoin goes up, it gets really expensive to move it.  And you don't really want to leave any coins on an exchange for a prolonged period of time, either.

It is normal that they want to make money, but the withdrawal fees are are higher than the real fees.

Yeah, by far.  50k satoshi isn't a ton of money, but it's still more than is actually needed to send bitcoin within a reasonable amount of time.  Bitstamp seems to be gouging its customers here.

Edit:

that doesn't really work with transaction batching. they have lots and lots of small inputs from depositors. the most sensible way to deal with that is to batch withdrawals and average the cost across withdrawing customers.

I'm sure you're right about that, and it shows my ignorance about how exchanges do these things.  And at least Bitstamp's bitcoin withdrawal fee isn't as high as Yobit's, which is outrageous.

jack fees up high enough and it discourages people from withdrawing. they stay and churn out trading commissions instead.

I'm pretty sure that's why Yobit has such a high fee and that's probably the strategy of at least a few other exchanges as well--and I'm sure it works most of the time, too.

[figmentofmyass]

The above is what caught my eye--that's a lot to withdraw bitcoin, but I think Yobit's fee is something like 0.0012BTC, which is even worse.  It would be nice if, instead of the exchanges charging you to withdraw your coins, they'd let you just choose the fee like you'd do with any other wallet.

that doesn't really work with transaction batching. they have lots and lots of small inputs from depositors. the most sensible way to deal with that is to batch withdrawals and average the cost across withdrawing customers.

i get the feeling most exchanges charge fees based on "worst case scenario" network congestion and end up skimming quite a bit off the top.

I understand that's part of most exchanges' business model, but man....when bitcoin goes up, it gets really expensive to move it.  And you don't really want to leave any coins on an exchange for a prolonged period of time, either.

jack fees up high enough and it discourages people from withdrawing. they stay and churn out trading commissions instead.

[jbdee]

They slapped the users hard. They sent the payments in batch so it didn't cost them that much. It may also be a way to rethink their infrastructures with wallets storage. I know it's not the first exchange changing its mind regarding this. In the old-time, it was something more common if you remember.

The 3€ SEPA withdrawal fee is just a joke, wow their banking partner make a lot of money

If you guys know a good exchange, where you can deposit/withdraw EUR by SEPA, with low fees, let me know!

Yes, Kraken.com (max 0.16%-0.26%) and it works like a clock. I used many times and never got any problem with banking transactions. (SEPA transfers take less than 24h often)

edit: SEPA deposits are free and 0.09€ per withdraw

I'm registered on most of exchanges (80+), I'm a Kraken customer and investor, but I avoid to trade there because the withdrawal fees are not that good, and had a really hard time with them in 2017
The good point of Kraken is about FIAT deposit and withdrawal, if you have a German bank, you get your money in few hours!

So some of you guys say that Bitstamp has to charge more because they were loosing money with free withdrawals, but think about it:
- before, they were making money with the trading fee 0.25%
- now, they make money with withdrawals and the trading fee 0.50%

So they are trying to, AT LEAST, double their income!
If they can keep their customers...
I feel betrayed with this increase of trading fee and withdrawal without warning  

And yes exchange should let the user choose the withdrawal fee, in some scenario people don't mind to get a slow transaction, and the other way too if they want a really fast transaction.

[BitHodler]

And yes exchange should let the user choose the withdrawal fee, in some scenario people don't mind to get a slow transaction, and the other way too if they want a really fast transaction.

I think that will lead to a lot of complaints one way or another. It's just not a wise option. Better option is to follow Coinbase's path where their withdrawal fees are dynamic and purely based on the congestion level of the network.

The benefit is that in most cases your withdrawal fees hover far under 10k satoshis, but when the network gets spammed or there is a lot of activity due to high price swings, the fees go up a lot.

I get your point though, it's frustrating to see exchanges unnecessarily charge you 0.0005/0.001BTC to withdraw your funds. At today's prices that's a fair bit of money, especially when you send your coins to your wallet after trading on a daily basis.

[Zarok665]

I think to be honest Bitstamp might need the extra money.

At the moment for 2 months they've been holding my funds hostage, flat out ignoring my requests to just close my account and have my deposits sent back. They cite KYC stuff but there are literally no KYC agents around, either that or they're purposely ignoring me.

Let's assume they're not just taking my money and run, well, then they clearly have not employed enough staff. In the end2017-Jan2018 boom, registrations went up exponentially and they couldn't cope with the demand. I think the CEO even posted about that.

But now, after a long bear market and nearly 2 years to adjust, you would think that Bitstamp would have fixed it by now. If I believe that they are understaffed and not just ignoring me, well, then they must still have a huge backlog. Because you can't get hold of anyone there.

I would take 0.5% fees versus half that if it means I actually get a reply from someone. At the moment it's crickets and holding funds hostage. Let's hope they use the increased fees to hire new staff because at the moment it's terrible, giving them the benefit of the doubt that they're not just stalling for some kind of exit.

[davis196]

Yes,the Bitstamp fees increased,but they are still affordable.
Can't we just stop whining about this and move on.We have the freedom to choose which crypto trading platform to use in our daily trading activities.The fees will keep going up and we can't do nothing about it.
The low quality and newbie traders will move to smaller exchanges with lower fees and no KYC,which is a bigger risk of getting scammed.I prefer paying higher fees,but getting a better service at a legit exchange.

[NeuroticFish]

Yes,the Bitstamp fees increased,but they are still affordable.

Really? I used to exchange/withdraw from them amounts between 50 and 250 EUR.
For a 50 EUR withdrawal 3 EUR is a lot. Maybe you withdraw by the thousands and in that case lucky you.
I've missed completely the news and the latest withdrawal was super expensive and almost 2 times slower than the usual.
I'm very disappointed of them.