Make bitcoin mining great again

[TimeBits]

Delete asics and pools, thank you!

Asics make it so the poor do not have a chance to mine
Pools lead to 51% attacks in the future and centralization

If you are trying to make a legit supply of money, everyone should make it, at the same rate, who is going to accept it.

Let`s be real we don`t need all that hashing power to secure a network, we need equally distributed hashing power per participant to secure the network, true decentralization. That hashing power and power itself could be cracking the code to solve ALS and Cancer, no joke.

Everyone should be able to run a node, even in a "third world country" if given a digital address to their id, which also could remain anon.  *I know we live on the same world, I don`t know what moron made that term "3rd world"

for real you guys fucked over us the general public for over 1000 years, can you just make a system that is not complete dog shit, it will actually give people incentive to work, otherwise expect this x1000 in another 50 years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF7hWzqdPDk

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[TimeBits]

https://twitter.com/halfin/status/1110302988

Brother I can`t run it, well I can but I don`t make any bitcoin on a laptop like you used to, we never got a chance to mine -kidbornin2145 -halsgreatgreatgreatgrandson.

[DooMAD]

Delete asics and pools, thank you!

Gee, I wonder why no one thought of that until now.  

Oh wait, that's right, people have been saying it for years and still none of them can come up with a way to implement it that doesn't involve coercion and centralisation.  Tell us how you would prevent it.  It would least provide some entertainment value for this otherwise dismal topic.

[TimeBits]

Delete asics and pools, thank you!

Gee, I wonder why no one thought of that until now.  

Oh wait, that's right, people have been saying it for years and still none of them can come up with a way to implement it that doesn't involve coercion and centralisation.  Tell us how you would prevent it.  It least provide some entertainment value for this otherwise dismal topic.

Well pools create centralization, so the idea is, there is no pool`s just individuals, now give each individual equal hashing power, ok now we have a non ass tier system. Ideally no money would be good for our species, but will figure that out in 100 years when we can`t make it to the next star system because a few peoples greed.

[MoparMiningLLC]

just hard fork btc every 3-4 months - will eliminate ASIC's as they are useless after a hard fork - they cannot adapt to the change. Some Altcoins do this as soon as a company produces an ASIC for their algo

[DooMAD]

Well pools create centralization, so the idea is, there is no pool`s just individuals

Individuals whom you've just invented a way to prevent from working together?

now give each individual equal hashing power

And who's this doing the "giving" part, exactly?  

[TimeBits]

Well pools create centralization, so the idea is, there is no pool`s just individuals

Individuals whom you've just invented a way to prevent from working together?

now give each individual equal hashing power

And who's this doing the "giving" part, exactly?  

Well people are free to work together so long as they have equal hashing power, then you will need at least 51% of the people themselves to create a "attack" although, it would just be a decision by the majority of the people using the network, unlike now where 1 or a few guys could change the entire system.  

The system is giving it, just like it does now.

Think of it this way, even if we went by populations, China would only have like 30% of the votes, if they all pooled together. *granted the U.N and world leaders should take their heads out of there ass and stop with the clown fiesta fiat show*

btw, China has 81% of the hashing power in their nation at the moment, and it`s a communist government, I much rather them have 30% and that's if all the people in that nation teamed up.

[DooMAD]

Well pools create centralization, so the idea is, there is no pool`s just individuals

Individuals whom you've just invented a way to prevent from working together?

now give each individual equal hashing power

And who's this doing the "giving" part, exactly?  

Well people are free to work together so long as they have equal hashing power, then you will need at least 51% of the people themselves to create a "attack" although, it would just be a decision by the majority of the people using the network, unlike now where 1 or a few guys could change the entire system.  

The system is giving it, just like it does now.

The "system" cannot magically give people equal hashrate because people can own more than one piece of hardware.  First you said there were no pools, but now you realise you have no way of preventing them from forming.

This sounds very much like a fanciful wishlist rather than a well considered plan of action. 

[TimeBits]

The "system" cannot magically give people equal hashrate because people can own more than one piece of hardware.  First you said there were no pools, but now you realise you have no way of preventing them from forming.

This sounds very much like a fanciful wishlist rather than a well considered plan of action.  

The beauty of it all is they don`t even need a computer or hash rate to give them equal coins via duration, They just need a address, it could even look like a credit card. Then you don`t even need the hash rate, that can be used on solving diseases.

You can prevent overpowered pools, or giving 1000 votes to 1 guy. That is what we are doing right now, instead of everyone getting 1 vote, some guy because he is rich because of the old bullshit system can buy 10000000000 of votes *asics*.


You want decentralization, this is it. You want a legit money supply, this is it. You want to leave our kind with a future, this is it.

[Lutpin]

just hard fork btc every 3-4 months - will eliminate ASIC's as they are useless after a hard fork - they cannot adapt to the change. Some Altcoins do this as soon as a company produces an ASIC for their algo

BTC has avoided hard-forking for over 10 years now. Let's start doing 4 per year. That sounds like a reasonable suggestion.
I get it, that works for smaller coins with less services and plurality of wallets. But I can imagine the chaos that BTC would stumble into with this.

The beauty of it all is they don`t even need a computer or hash rate to give them equal coins via duration, They just need a address, it could even look like a credit card. Then you don`t even need the hash rate, that can be used on solving diseases.

You can prevent overpowered pools, or giving 1000 votes to 1 guy. That is what we are doing right now, instead of everyone getting 1 vote, some guy because he is rich because of the old bullshit system can buy 10000000000 of votes *asics*.

Sounds great. Sounds also like something completely different than bitcoin.
Go pursue it, but do it as a new project, don't attempt to force bitcoin into something it isn't.

[squatter]

Delete asics and pools, thank you!

How, pray tell, would we accomplish that? There are algorithms that are [temporarily] ASIC-resistant, but nothing we know of that could "delete" ASICs. Hard forking from SHA-256 would be highly contentious no doubt, especially if no one believes that the end goal -- no ASICs -- is possible.

As for pools, I think this sentiment from gmaxwell still applies:

Instead we /just/ need to improve the tools so that people can pool for variance reduction without turning over their consensus controls. It's straight forward: the pool gives you a coinbase txn specification (e.g. "must pay these addresses") and you mine whatever block content you want, returning shares to the pool. Then you get low variance payout, but without handing over control.

BTC has avoided hard-forking for over 10 years now. Let's start doing 4 per year. That sounds like a reasonable suggestion.
I get it, that works for smaller coins with less services and plurality of wallets. But I can imagine the chaos that BTC would stumble into with this.

4 per year sounds excessive no matter what, given the size and scope of the network. Either way, I don't think it's possible now. Maybe it would have been if a culture of hard forking had been adopted very early on.

[TimeBits]

just hard fork btc every 3-4 months - will eliminate ASIC's as they are useless after a hard fork - they cannot adapt to the change. Some Altcoins do this as soon as a company produces an ASIC for their algo

BTC has avoided hard-forking for over 10 years now. Let's start doing 4 per year. That sounds like a reasonable suggestion.
I get it, that works for smaller coins with less services and plurality of wallets. But I can imagine the chaos that BTC would stumble into with this.

The beauty of it all is they don`t even need a computer or hash rate to give them equal coins via duration, They just need a address, it could even look like a credit card. Then you don`t even need the hash rate, that can be used on solving diseases.

You can prevent overpowered pools, or giving 1000 votes to 1 guy. That is what we are doing right now, instead of everyone getting 1 vote, some guy because he is rich because of the old bullshit system can buy 10000000000 of votes *asics*.

Sounds great. Sounds also like something completely different than bitcoin.
Go pursue it, but do it as a new project, don't attempt to force bitcoin into something it isn't.

I mean it could be pretty easily applied to bitcoin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7TLFyK_3Pk Here is the ending of your mining of bitcoin. Have fun with that, your great great great grand kids will either be slaves, or be the ones enslaving them.

You know Jeff Bezo`s could buy the entire worlds gold supply just with the interest alone in his account in two years, yah good luck with that shit.

99% of the people going to be living on the streets, because 1 asshole has 6374578962378462783943781 houses, because he has unlimited interest money to keep fucking buying everything. That includes the bitcoin supply and asics.

spoiler: in that simulation not just does 1 team win, 1 person wins in the end, that is the end of the bitcoin "experiment" Gavin.

[Docnaster]

I do not think it is that easy. Taking asics out of the equation would only drop the overall difficulty for a while.
But after that, everyone will be mining with the slow equipment and then everyone would run a turtle race.
No one would get more than now because everyone would be limited the same way.

[MoparMiningLLC]

I do not think it is that easy. Taking asics out of the equation would only drop the overall difficulty for a while.
But after that, everyone will be mining with the slow equipment and then everyone would run a turtle race.
No one would get more than now because everyone would be limited the same way.

this is true - difficulty will drop and the amount people get will equalize out to be approx the same - the difference is that more people could be involved instead of big corporations that have 10's of thousands of ASIC's running.

I only say that forking will eliminate existing ASIC's - without regular forks though, there will just be new ASIC's made.

That being said, I use ASIC's, not a lot but I do have 20 various ASIC's atm - very small mining farm.

[Slow death]

Man, there's no need to discuss this, if you want to mine, then buy ASICs, if you don't have the money to buy ASICS then get a bank loan and buy ASICs, that's simple. I did not understand what you meant by third world people, I confess I did not understand. did you want third world people to mine bitcoin using their GPUs? Third world people if they have cheap electricity can buy ASICs or they can borrow from the bank and buy ASICs and mine bitcoin

[MoparMiningLLC]

I think he was more or less referring to how there are corporations with thousands of miners and then linking them in a pool is working towards centralizing thst which should remain decentralized.

[hatshepsut93]

Well pools create centralization, so the idea is, there is no pool`s just individuals, now give each individual equal hashing power, ok now we have a non ass tier system. Ideally no money would be good for our species, but will figure that out in 100 years when we can`t make it to the next star system because a few peoples greed.

Pools don't exist on a protocol level, and Bitcoin's network has no way of determining is a block was mined in a mega powerful pool or someone astronomically lucky just found it on their CPU. There's no way to change it by updating the protocol. So, the only way to remove pools is to physically stop them - good luck with that.

Even if you fork Bitcoin to have CPU mining and make ASIC's impossible (the holy grail of anti-asic movement), people will just buy CPU's in bulk and organize pools. They will be more efficient than regular users, because of cheaper electricity, cheaper CPU prices, better cooling and so on.

[franky1]

1. if you go to a system that a individual block is secured by a single users crappy computer for under $100... then someone else will 51% attack with a $200 computer.

2. no matter what algo you think of, people will always find a way to maximise their potential. even PoS sees people pooling funds together so that they are picked more often to hash a block than those with small stake. for instance if it was proof of hard drive, people will just open a warehouse full of hardrives.

3. i understand that many hobbyists got informd they can receive 50btc using just their laptop. but that salespitch is outdated and redundant 9 years ago. its like thinking you can still get rich gold mining by using a pickaxe. sorry those days have gone.
trying to devolve the bitcoin security just so lazy people can get rich for free is not what bitcoin is about. bitcoin is about security of wealth not

in short i would hate to have a financial system thats hash is only secured by the strength of a single CPU's work

[Saltius]

What if Nvidia and AMD started building rigs and pools using their own GPU, would you guys begin whining ban GPU mining then?

This question also applies to Intel and AMD with their CPU.

Totally wrong direction of the solution.

[pooya87]

i think you are confused about what bitcoin is and what it isn't.
bitcoin is a currency, it is NOT a charity to give away free money to the poor. it is not supposed to create "free" or easy ways of anybody to mine it and earn bitcoin. you have to do "hard work" to earn bitcoin and the more valuable it gets the more work you have to do. and that work is increasing by difficulty and is the computing power you spend with your device. whether that device is a GPU or an ASIC is not going to make a difference. ASIC is not some evil creation it is just like CPU, GPU,... but it is re purposed to do only one special thing in an efficient way.