Smile-to-pay - facial payment technology in China

[Kakmakr]

I reckon many people have seen the latest “Smile-to-Pay” facial payment technology that are introduced in China. Large companies like, Tencent is using this in their popular WeChat app and other companies like Alipay are spending millions to develop their own technology like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/04/smile-to-pay-chinese-shoppers-turn-to-facial-payment-technology

So, do you think this is a truly revolutionary payment option or is this just an extension of the Chinese surveillance goals? Now, you cannot deny that you made a payment or that you were involved in a payment, because every face is unique.

Will the millions of people in China blindly adopt this technology, because these platforms are widely used already or will they opt for something a bit more anonymous like Bitcoin? <The Chinese people are very disciplined, so I think they would just bend the knee again and go for facial recognition.>

The convenience is also a big factor, just imagine leaving your home to go shopping without a wallet or anything to remember... you just take a product or pay for a service by looking into a camera and you pay with your face. 

Let's discuss.

[Lucius]

I first encountered face recognition technology some 10 years ago when I bought my ASUS laptop. There was a option to log-in with facial recognition, but I must admit that efficiency was not at a high level. I completely forgot about it until such an option appeared on smartphones, but I never use it since I have fingerprint reader and password, which I find much more secure protection for my device.

This type of payment is certainly interesting, user just need to link their photo to bank account, and after that there is no need to carry cash, cards or remember PINs. But what interests me is how accurate that system is, can it happen that two very similar people swap identities, what about identical twins?

Perhaps as additional protection this smile to pay should have fingerprint reader. This would be just extra security, and users still wouldn’t have to carry any cards or remember PIN.

[Kakmakr]

I first encountered face recognition technology some 10 years ago when I bought my ASUS laptop. There was a option to log-in with facial recognition, but I must admit that efficiency was not at a high level. I completely forgot about it until such an option appeared on smartphones, but I never use it since I have fingerprint reader and password, which I find much more secure protection for my device.

This type of payment is certainly interesting, user just need to link their photo to bank account, and after that there is no need to carry cash, cards or remember PINs. But what interests me is how accurate that system is, can it happen that two very similar people swap identities, what about identical twins?

Perhaps as additional protection this smile to pay should have fingerprint reader. This would be just extra security, and users still wouldn’t have to carry any cards or remember PIN.

Yea, facial recognition technology is definitely not something new, but to my knowledge it has not been used with a payment option before this.  I know some Banks takes photo's of all their customers and you simply link that to your fingerprint... so when you want to do something in the Bank.. you simply use your finger to "unlock" the account and then the Bank clerk can see a picture of you.. to verify that you are the owner of that account.

The concept to pay with your face is nice, but as you said... what happens if identical twins use this feature? Would it also "verify" your account, if you use a facial mold of someone else's face, like they do in the movies with makeup?   

[samcrypto]

Chinese technology are growing faster, it started from their cashless payment and now a more advance to do transactions. I’m just wondering how can you smile while you are paying bills that was made by your Girlfriend, haha nevertheless this is really an awesome update. Its also good if they fully accept crypto and do it with a smile as well.

[Tipstar]

China is taking the social credit system to a new level. Now they would have all money and loans on their face. The own face would be the private key for their wallet. It would be super easy unless people find a way to use others face. I hope they soon integrate a chip in every Chinese to be safe of face copying scam.

[mk4]

Oh boy this is definitely going to be very convenient(no cards and wallets!), but with the trad-eoff though? In exchange for your privacy? Oh hell nah. Not a chance. Unfortunately I really really doubt that the citizens of China would complain, because you know, they might not want to get social credit points deducted from them. I'm even going to bet that if you show such a feature to other countries like the United States, a good percentage of people are going to like this(even though they shouldn't).

To be honest with the current situation of China, I'd say it's probably worse than what was shown on Netflix's Black Mirror episode: nosedive.

[rdluffy]

I don't know you guys, but I'm happy that technology is growing faster to levels that I can't imagine, BUT I'm not comfortable with this kind of technology, I really like my privacy, even if I don't do anything wrong, but I'm not confortable at all

[BrewMaster]

So, do you think this is a truly revolutionary payment option or is this just an extension of the Chinese surveillance goals?

well, as long as people are paying with anything other than cash (like credit cards,...) they can be tracked so the government can surveil them easily. so this new payment method may not change much about that.
it is surely interesting though i am curious to know how accurate it is and how many bugs it has. for example whath appens if you grow facial hair like a mustache or a full beard, will you lose access to your money

[mk4]

it is surely interesting though i am curious to know how accurate it is and how many bugs it has. for example whath appens if you grow facial hair like a mustache or a full beard, will you lose access to your money

Hahaha this. They'd have to do a lot better than Apple's iOS face recognition(Face ID). While this was definitely last year and that apple's Face ID most likely has improved and maybe fixed this problem already, I had a mutual friend that had a very very identical twin(pretty much their hair bangs is the only noticeable facial difference between the twins), and the twin could unlock the phone with no problem at all.

[FlightyPouch]

I did remembered a video in China about a surveillance camera that can identify a person and can even give some information about thay guy, even a old photo of him. Maybe that is connected here and as far as I know they already fixed the problem where the camera can mistakenly identify other people's faces. This might be a good payment technology but I look serious despite knowing myself I am smiling.

[kryptqnick]

Wow, I've never even imagined anything like that. At first, I thought it was a cool idea, but when I went through the article, I reconsidered. I would probably freak out if I had to pay with my face. I mean, first of all, you clearly realize that you are being watched and even scanned in a way. Secondly, the process makes your face instrumental, a way of paying. It's a very serious objectivation of the human body, I don't think it's comfortable...And it seems that the people who tried the service mainly felt uncomfortable as well. They said they felt "ugly", and I think it's because this objectivation affected them.

[Ucy]

Centralized biometric system is dangerous. I would have suggested making it optional and amending the law to gurantee it remains optional for a long time,but governments can be unpredictable... wont be surprised if they craftily make biometric authentication difficult to resist while still operating under the amended law. People who opt out could find living normal life impossible in such situation.

Decentralized biometric is way better and will definitely be optional. People who don't want to go through the biometric could use non-biometric applications within the blockchain but at their own risk.
 Applications that allow biometric or use better biometric alternatives would be recommended to most users of the Blockchain. However, no one should be able to tie any biometric information to a particular user in a Blockchain-based biometric system. It should be anonymous/private

[Oceat]

I did remembered a video in China about a surveillance camera that can identify a person and can even give some information about thay guy, even a old photo of him. Maybe that is connected here and as far as I know they already fixed the problem where the camera can mistakenly identify other people's faces. This might be a good payment technology but I look serious despite knowing myself I am smiling.

Sound like a movie to me.

Anyway, this kind of technology existed already, i can say since Facebook already has it and our smartphones and laptop has it too. But what bothers me is the government already has your personal information and can easily locate you wherever you are as long as they see you in their camera. You are now under in their centralized system which is basically the start of losing your privacy as a free citizen.

[franky1]

find someone that uses face recognition, go to their social media, point camera at their picture and your in.
imagine your face as a password.. then imagine a password tattood to your forehead for anyone to take a pic of and you realise how insecure it is

[AjithBtc]

find someone that uses face recognition, go to their social media, point camera at their picture and your in.
imagine your face as a password.. then imagine a password tattood to your forehead for anyone to take a pic of and you realise how insecure it is

That's the reality. Truly it is highly insecure compared to other security we've got. Before face recognition it was finger print where it is easy to make people go unconscious and steal their funds and personal data. Things go advanced, along with the same it increases the risk much higher. A single error could cause a very big loss.

[AmoreJaz]

I did remembered a video in China about a surveillance camera that can identify a person and can even give some information about thay guy, even a old photo of him. Maybe that is connected here and as far as I know they already fixed the problem where the camera can mistakenly identify other people's faces. This might be a good payment technology but I look serious despite knowing myself I am smiling.

Sound like a movie to me.

Anyway, this kind of technology existed already, i can say since Facebook already has it and our smartphones and laptop has it too. But what bothers me is the government already has your personal information and can easily locate you wherever you are as long as they see you in their camera. You are now under in their centralized system which is basically the start of losing your privacy as a free citizen.

maybe one of the hidden reasons of implementing this technology is the control of the government to its citizens. of course they will not directly imply that purpose!
but this advancement in their payment technology has repercussions to the privacy of the individuals. but if you are a good citizen and dont bother about your privacy, theres nothing to worry about.
we are already in a digital age where a lot of our movements can be tracked by social media or any other app from our laptop, smartphones and other gadgets. so this development is not really a new thing anymore.

[hulla]

From what I read from the article the Chinese government is not the developer of the platform and I personally believed there's nothing bad in using the facial payment system as temporary payment and that's if the Chinese government doesn't later abuse the no anonymity part of the payment platform.

[Renampun]

This type of payment is certainly interesting, user just need to link their photo to bank account, and after that there is no need to carry cash, cards or remember PINs. But what interests me is how accurate that system is, can it happen that two very similar people swap identities, what about identical twins?

Perhaps as additional protection this smile to pay should have fingerprint reader. This would be just extra security, and users still wouldn’t have to carry any cards or remember PIN.

absolutely, the weakness of this system is the twin faces, they must strengthen it by adding an eye scanner, fingerprint or PIN feature.

Chinese technology are growing faster, it started from their cashless payment and now a more advance to do transactions. I’m just wondering how can you smile while you are paying bills that was made by your Girlfriend, haha nevertheless this is really an awesome update. Its also good if they fully accept crypto and do it with a smile as well.

of course, I as a wife would be angry if I could not pay for something using my husband's money 
it seems like this facial payment technology will be very difficult to spread throughout the world.

[Artemis3]

Too dangerous and prone to mistakes. If this is the same thing used in State surveillance, face alone is not enough. China infamously identifies protesters with the way they walk, probably in combination with the face and other features to reduce somehow false positives.

This face thing is probably in addition to something else, perhaps a smartphone app.

[mk4]

find someone that uses face recognition, go to their social media, point camera at their picture and your in.

I'm not defending this smile-to-pay thing, but I don't think it's this easily exploitable. As far as I know(not sure, don't quote me on this), most decent facial recognition systems take note of the sort of "depths" of a certain face. So chances are that simply using a photo of a person won't do the job.