Dumb-ass BitPay Suspending Bitcoin donations to Hong Kong Free Press

[AppliedOptimal]

Normally, bitpay.com is used for accepting bitcoin for online payments.
I say let them dry up and use coinbase commerce or something.

The Hong Kong free press CEO mumbled something about Hong Kong banks not accepting IBAN, so they had these problems? I don't understand the relevance here but it is possible that this dumbass company called bitpay is not an expert on the subject.
Don't get me wrong, I love my IBAN, and using Swift crap instead of IBAN clearly sucks but if you are a company accepting bitcoin as payment, you should be able to convert crypto to FIAT under any conditions.

It could be because China is involved and they don't want Hong Kong free press getting their hands on donations.
It could be because the Roger is involved and I find fault in bitpay because, well, it is a company involving Roger.
I also find fault in the press because they should find ways to use bitcoin instead of reverting into FIAT!

Here are the relevant tweets:
https://twitter.com/BitCoinBanka/status/1171745023567835142?s=20
https://twitter.com/tomgrundy/status/1171657974043074562?s=20

Here is the news link:
https://bitcoinist.com/bitpay-faces-fresh-criticism-from-hong-kong-free-press/

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency payment processor, BitPay, is about to face another wave of negative publicity. This time it has refused to transfer funds sent as bitcoin donations to Hong Kong Free Press.

BITCOIN DONATIONS TEMPORARILY SUSPENDED
In an angry tweet, HKFP founder and editor-in-chief, Tom Grundy, informed supporters that cryptocurrency donations were temporarily suspended. The reason for this was that BitPay had refused to transfer donations for the past three weeks.

In a follow-up tweet, Grundy explained that funds had been held for weeks, simply because Hong Kong banks use SWIFT and not IBANs. One would imagine though, that this would have been a consistent issue, so it is unclear why funds transfer has become a problem now.

The current political climate in Hong Kong means there could be many factors involved. Perhaps BitPay is under pressure from the Chinese government? Or maybe the problem has always existed, but has become more of frustration when donations are so desperately required? Or it could simply be an excuse for ineptitude on BitPay’s part?

“NEVER USE BITPAY, FOLKS.”
Whatever the reason, it is almost certainly different from that of the last batch of negative publicity a fortnight ago. That centered around BitPay refusing a $100,000 bitcoin donation to help fight fires in the Amazon rainforest, due to it being over the charity’s maximum permitted amount.
 
But HKFP has only received HK$14,817 (US$1890) in bitcoin donations since it was founded in 2015. The latest unrest in the state may have seen a spike in support, but it is unlikely to have breached limits.

Grundy was somewhat damning in advising others not to use BitPay:

Truly the worst experience you can imagine – poor reputation, abysmal communication, horrible customer service, *very* high fees. Almost any alternative will be better.

His sentiment was mirrored in the comments section, with several suggesting the open-source, BTCPay server as an alternative.

BitPay also recently faced criticism for disguising it own fees as ‘Bitcoin Network Fees’, in an apparent drive to push Bitcoin Cash use.

Do you think BitPay is still the best Bitcoin and cryptocurrency payment processor? State your thoughts below.

The Rundown

Bitcoin Donations Temporarily Suspended

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[squatz1]

I think this is something that most knew already, but what's the alternative of using bitpay? Going ahead and using a direct pay to bitcoin and having to live with the volatility present? That's not something that any company, any charity, or anyone that is accepting monetary payment is going to want to accept.

Bitpay may have its flaws yes, but I don't see any alternatives that are willing to bear the risk that bitpay does. Or anyone that is developing an alternative that works.

[Saltius]

But why do Hong Kong Free Press use Bitpay in the first place?
There are many local exchanges including some OTC ones in Hong Kong.
They shouldn't have problems changing BTC to local fiat in Hong Kong.

[AppliedOptimal]

I think this is something that most knew already, but what's the alternative of using bitpay? Going ahead and using a direct pay to bitcoin and having to live with the volatility present? That's not something that any company, any charity, or anyone that is accepting monetary payment is going to want to accept.

Bitpay may have its flaws yes, but I don't see any alternatives that are willing to bear the risk that bitpay does. Or anyone that is developing an alternative that works.

How about accepting bitcoin donations using your own private keys and public address? You can then sell it as soon as it reaches a certain amount. Then you do not have to deal with a middle man. You can immediately sell your bitcoin in an exchange, and it will be fine and dandy. Bitcoin has been going sideways anyways.
Not that I have anything to do with them, but you can also use coinbase commerce. Check out this link and feel free to send me a tip, at least I will know if it works
https://commerce.coinbase.com/checkout/3c738b0e-7c8c-4a88-ae0e-7ec49c03a28e

If you are a large company or a charity, then you probably have an accountant or accountants. Press people should have that due to the corporations they work for. I ran an Inc. in the past and we could ask our accountant to do anything for the companies we were advising/helping.
You can even provide an exchange address to people to send in bitcoin, if you are too iffy to use your own address, but I think your wallet with your private keys would be safer.
Anyways, back some time ago there were news about a man in London accepting his salary in bitcoin. If one man can do it, you can do it too, and a charity organization can find some people to help them with accepting bitcoin to their address as opposed to bitpay:

Earlier this year cryptocurrency firm CoinCorner decided that - if they wanted - staff could choose to take their salaries in Bitcoins instead of pounds and pence.

Zakk Lakin decided to do just that - and have his entire salary paid in Bitcoin.

After CoinCorner said the staff could take some - or all - their pay in cryptocurrency, Zakk leaped straight in, choosing to have 100% of his salary paid in Bitcoin.

And the software developer, who lives on the Isle of Man, said he's managing fine.

"People always ask how I am coping with living on Bitcoin, but the truth is that my lifestyle hasn’t really changed," the 24-year-old told Mirror Money.

"Buying things with crypto is easier than people think - there are many online merchants that accept Bitcoin and I use them to buy what I need throughout the month - everything from tech-related items such as Raspberry Pi products or cooking equipment from Amazon (yes, there are ways to buy things from Amazon with crypto!)"

Of course, not everything can be bought with Bitcoin. But that doesn't put Zakk off.

"At the moment I convert all of my permanent outgoings (such as rent, direct debits, etc) to GBP on payday to avoid any issues around the Bitcoin price movements and then the rest is left for disposable income/savings," he told Mirror Money.

Zakk has the advantage that - working for a coin exchange- he doesn't have to pay a fee to swap his Bitcoin into pounds and pence.


But even then it takes a few hours to get access to his cash if he needs pounds to spend though.

"Over time I believe we’ll begin to see more retail companies like restaurants and petrol stations introducing Bitcoin payments, and this will mean I can spend less in fiat and more in Bitcoin," Zakk said.

But for Zakk, it's about more than just paying for things.

"As a young techie in the Bitcoin industry, I feel it’s important to not only contribute to the network by running my own node, but to actually use Bitcoin for its original intention as electronic cash.

"On top of it all, the conversations it creates are always worth it for spreading awareness and educating others about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency."

Sources for quotes and the images:
https://twitter.com/BitCoinBanka/status/1172031884311900160?s=20
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/man-explains-chose-take-entire-18984194

[squatz1]

I think this is something that most knew already, but what's the alternative of using bitpay? Going ahead and using a direct pay to bitcoin and having to live with the volatility present? That's not something that any company, any charity, or anyone that is accepting monetary payment is going to want to accept.

Bitpay may have its flaws yes, but I don't see any alternatives that are willing to bear the risk that bitpay does. Or anyone that is developing an alternative that works.

How about accepting bitcoin donations using your own private keys and public address? You can then sell it as soon as it reaches a certain amount. Then you do not have to deal with a middle man. You can immediately sell your bitcoin in an exchange, and it will be fine and dandy. Bitcoin has been going sideways anyways.
Not that I have anything to do with them, but you can also use coinbase commerce. Check out this link and feel free to send me a tip, at least I will know if it works
https://commerce.coinbase.com/checkout/3c738b0e-7c8c-4a88-ae0e-7ec49c03a28e

If you are a large company or a charity, then you probably have an accountant or accountants. Press people should have that due to the corporations they work for. I ran an Inc. in the past and we could ask our accountant to do anything for the companies we were advising/helping.
You can even provide an exchange address to people to send in bitcoin, if you are too iffy to use your own address, but I think your wallet with your private keys would be safer.
Anyways, back some time ago there were news about a man in London accepting his salary in bitcoin. If one man can do it, you can do it too, and a charity organization can find some people to help them with accepting bitcoin to their address as opposed to bitpay:

Earlier this year cryptocurrency firm CoinCorner decided that - if they wanted - staff could choose to take their salaries in Bitcoins instead of pounds and pence.

Zakk Lakin decided to do just that - and have his entire salary paid in Bitcoin.

After CoinCorner said the staff could take some - or all - their pay in cryptocurrency, Zakk leaped straight in, choosing to have 100% of his salary paid in Bitcoin.

And the software developer, who lives on the Isle of Man, said he's managing fine.

"People always ask how I am coping with living on Bitcoin, but the truth is that my lifestyle hasn’t really changed," the 24-year-old told Mirror Money.

"Buying things with crypto is easier than people think - there are many online merchants that accept Bitcoin and I use them to buy what I need throughout the month - everything from tech-related items such as Raspberry Pi products or cooking equipment from Amazon (yes, there are ways to buy things from Amazon with crypto!)"

Of course, not everything can be bought with Bitcoin. But that doesn't put Zakk off.

"At the moment I convert all of my permanent outgoings (such as rent, direct debits, etc) to GBP on payday to avoid any issues around the Bitcoin price movements and then the rest is left for disposable income/savings," he told Mirror Money.

Zakk has the advantage that - working for a coin exchange- he doesn't have to pay a fee to swap his Bitcoin into pounds and pence.


But even then it takes a few hours to get access to his cash if he needs pounds to spend though.

"Over time I believe we’ll begin to see more retail companies like restaurants and petrol stations introducing Bitcoin payments, and this will mean I can spend less in fiat and more in Bitcoin," Zakk said.

But for Zakk, it's about more than just paying for things.

"As a young techie in the Bitcoin industry, I feel it’s important to not only contribute to the network by running my own node, but to actually use Bitcoin for its original intention as electronic cash.

"On top of it all, the conversations it creates are always worth it for spreading awareness and educating others about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency."

Sources for quotes and the images:
https://twitter.com/BitCoinBanka/status/1172031884311900160?s=20
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/man-explains-chose-take-entire-18984194

You can't actually tell me that you think this is the correct thing to do. There's no way that every charity and private business is going to have someone on staff to be able to check over their bitcoin address at all times, and convert it to USD(or their local currency) manually each time. That's impossible, and it's going to have a large amount of volatility.

Plus the fact that you're paying another person on staff to be doing this (if you're a busy company)

[AppliedOptimal]

You can't actually tell me that you think this is the correct thing to do. There's no way that every charity and private business is going to have someone on staff to be able to check over their bitcoin address at all times, and convert it to USD(or their local currency) manually each time. That's impossible, and it's going to have a large amount of volatility.

Plus the fact that you're paying another person on staff to be doing this (if you're a busy company)

Back when I was running my inc., we had an accountant and we could ask him to do these types of things. You can use bots such as bitcoinsavings bot on telegram to warn you when there is a transaction in your account. All you need to do is enter your public address to it.

So, you are already paying someone for keeping your books, he does checking that stuff and selling bitcoin at the end of the day, or every two days or something. Volatility is no problem these days because everyone is expecting bitcoin price to increase.
According to @hodlnout, in the last 24 hours, the block time decreased to 7.5 minutes, as opposed to the usual 10 minutes, which means the miners are working real hard. That means they must be thinking they want that bitcoin reward bad.
Here is the source for the hash rate increase: https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1171941018696114176?s=20

[Naida_BR]

If you want to get donations and funds from people around the world why use Bitpay for that?
Just make your BTC address available to the public and let everyone who wants to donate any amount of their preference in this wallet...

[AppliedOptimal]

If you want to get donations and funds from people around the world why use Bitpay for that?
Just make your BTC address available to the public and let everyone who wants to donate any amount of their preference in this wallet...

I could not agree more. That is the way bitcoin was intended for. Using middle man such as payment companies only dilutes decentralization. You can even use blockchain.com graph feature to check your public address. Here is an instant web thing I made using blockchain api for a famous address, you can simply bookmark this page, and see it as a graphic:
https://api.blockchain.info/charts/preview/s-f/balance.png?address=1dice8EMZmqKvrGE4Qc9bUFf9PX3xaYDp
No? Just bookmark this one:
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/1dice8EMZmqKvrGE4Qc9bUFf9PX3xaYDp
Change the BTC address to yours at the end of the link. Simple as that. Then send your crypto to exchanges whenever you want to convert to fiat. You can even provide an exchange address, though I advise against it.


You don't want to look at a tab on your PC? Just use coinstats on your phone and it will give you your bitcoin balance all the time, with good graphics.

[squatz1]

You can't actually tell me that you think this is the correct thing to do. There's no way that every charity and private business is going to have someone on staff to be able to check over their bitcoin address at all times, and convert it to USD(or their local currency) manually each time. That's impossible, and it's going to have a large amount of volatility.

Plus the fact that you're paying another person on staff to be doing this (if you're a busy company)

Back when I was running my inc., we had an accountant and we could ask him to do these types of things. You can use bots such as bitcoinsavings bot on telegram to warn you when there is a transaction in your account. All you need to do is enter your public address to it.

So, you are already paying someone for keeping your books, he does checking that stuff and selling bitcoin at the end of the day, or every two days or something. Volatility is no problem these days because everyone is expecting bitcoin price to increase.
According to @hodlnout, in the last 24 hours, the block time decreased to 7.5 minutes, as opposed to the usual 10 minutes, which means the miners are working real hard. That means they must be thinking they want that bitcoin reward bad.
Here is the source for the hash rate increase: https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1171941018696114176?s=20

So pretty much what you're saying is that as a company you would pay an accountant (I'm using US market rates for the next part of this) $150-200 an hour to check for your bitcoin payments and ensure that all of that is done? What's the cost savings in using BTC for that.

It would make the most sense for someone to use a service like bitpay -- which converts it to USD and charges a very small fee, as they charge 1 percent, which is already lower than CC merchants who are in the realm of 2-3 percent for transcations. Plus you're not going to have any issues with chargebacks or anything along those lines.

Advocating for people to just post their address or to use something that just accepts bitcoin as payment and doesn't convert completely misses the point. Businesses need USD -- they're unable to pay for their bills in bitcoin (I don't care if some random German dunkin donuts is now accepting bitcoin) They can't pay the electric bill, the gas/oil bill, they can't pay for internet, and anything else in bitcoin.

We're missing the mark COMPLETELY if we're just telling businesses to accept bitcoin and end it there. You either get all of the people that they have to pay onboard as well, or they use a service like bitpay, OR they don't use any of these at all.

[Spendulus]

....
We're missing the mark COMPLETELY if we're just telling businesses to accept bitcoin and end it there. You either get all of the people that they have to pay onboard as well, or they use a service like bitpay, OR they don't use any of these at all.

Bitpay is designed for and intended to be used by parties that know NOTHING about crypto and don't care to. They just want to put more little symbols next to the PAY button.

[squatz1]

....
We're missing the mark COMPLETELY if we're just telling businesses to accept bitcoin and end it there. You either get all of the people that they have to pay onboard as well, or they use a service like bitpay, OR they don't use any of these at all.

Bitpay is designed for and intended to be used by parties that know NOTHING about crypto and don't care to. They just want to put more little symbols next to the PAY button.

Yeah, okay?

What's wrong about that?

I don't think theres an issue with a company giving people choices in payment. Not every company is going to want to go full crypto because it's impossible for them to use the crypto anyway to further their business.

Did you even read what I wrote?

[Spendulus]

....
We're missing the mark COMPLETELY if we're just telling businesses to accept bitcoin and end it there. You either get all of the people that they have to pay onboard as well, or they use a service like bitpay, OR they don't use any of these at all.

Bitpay is designed for and intended to be used by parties that know NOTHING about crypto and don't care to. They just want to put more little symbols next to the PAY button.

Yeah, okay?

What's wrong about that?

I don't think theres an issue with a company giving people choices in payment. Not every company is going to want to go full crypto because it's impossible for them to use the crypto anyway to further their business.

Did you even read what I wrote?

I thought I did. My point though is there is no "should" or "ought" or "we need to ... " when some mindless business owner's just looking to expand means of payments.

As for whether there's something wrong with what bitpay is doing of course there is. They are kissing ass of powers that be exactly the same way that MC and Visa are doing. That's a dangerous road, as is evidenced by this very thread's title.

By the way, never believe these kinds of guys when they come up with flimsy excuses why they didn't send money or coin to someone. NEVER!

[squatz1]

....
We're missing the mark COMPLETELY if we're just telling businesses to accept bitcoin and end it there. You either get all of the people that they have to pay onboard as well, or they use a service like bitpay, OR they don't use any of these at all.

Bitpay is designed for and intended to be used by parties that know NOTHING about crypto and don't care to. They just want to put more little symbols next to the PAY button.

Yeah, okay?

What's wrong about that?

I don't think theres an issue with a company giving people choices in payment. Not every company is going to want to go full crypto because it's impossible for them to use the crypto anyway to further their business.

Did you even read what I wrote?

I thought I did. My point though is there is no "should" or "ought" or "we need to ... " when some mindless business owner's just looking to expand means of payments.

As for whether there's something wrong with what bitpay is doing of course there is. They are kissing ass of powers that be exactly the same way that MC and Visa are doing. That's a dangerous road, as is evidenced by this very thread's title.

By the way, never believe these kinds of guys when they come up with flimsy excuses why they didn't send money or coin to someone. NEVER!

So now you're going to demonize business owners who are just opening another revenue stream for themselves? This is the sort of behavior that is going to forever hurt the crypto community. There's no reason to accept a business owner to go full hard on for crypto if they can't use crypto for anything. For them, accepting Crypto is just going to be like accepting another payment method.

Yes, some business owners are going to be receptive with owning this speculative asset and considering it an investment. But for most people, this is just another means of making money and growing their business.

.....

[Spendulus]

"these kinds of guys" === like those who run Bitpay, making up lame excuses for not sending money where the commies don't want it to be sent

[Spendulus]

...
So now you're going to demonize business owners who are just opening another revenue stream for themselves? This is the sort of behavior that is going to forever hurt the crypto community. There's no reason to accept a business owner to go full hard on for crypto if they can't use crypto for anything. For them, accepting Crypto is just going to be like accepting another payment method.

Yes, some business owners are going to be receptive with owning this speculative asset and considering it an investment. But for most people, this is just another means of making money and growing their business.

.....

Misunderstanding. We're in agreement.

[tvbcof]

I've many times NOT made a contribution for the sole reason that the potential recipient went through coinbase, bitpay, etc.  It tells me they don't understand Bitcoin and my money would likely be dumped down the drain or confiscated, or at the very best used to enrich sleezballs companies who are no better than the Federal Reserve.

Might was well use privately issued fiat money.  Maybe these companies serve a useful purpose in introducing people to Bitcoin and some small fraction of them will move on to using it in the way which makes sense.  That's fine.  Obviously one should use native BTC for anything important as this event shows.  Using blockchain.com has a low barrier to entry and (in theory) one still controls their own keys.

[AppliedOptimal]

There were some people on this thread, who were kinda against getting bitcoin as a payment and keeping it like that. They were all hell-bent of converting it to FIAT for large organizations.
What is a large organization you say? How about UNICEF!
Check out the news, reporting that UNICEF will not Convert Bitcoin and Ethereum Donations to Fiat Currency

[tvbcof]

There were some people on this thread, who were kinda against getting bitcoin as a payment and keeping it like that. They were all hell-bent of converting it to FIAT for large organizations.
What is a large organization you say? How about UNICEF!
Check out the news, reporting that UNICEF will not Convert Bitcoin and Ethereum Donations to Fiat Currency

Not surprising.  These 'non-profits' tend to profit by paying their executives gigantic salaries.  Also in the case of outfits like UNICEF I'll bet that their policy directors take a lot of under-the-table money from the dynastic wealth families who are big into eugenics.  Crypto that never gets converted (through the USD system) would be great for maintaining opacity in their operations.

I've been one of the loudest voices here for not using BTC for buying trinkets when it can be done with fiat or some crap crypto that nobody cares about (e.g., most of the 'alts'.)  That is not to say that I am against small spends.  Only in cases where the spends are embargo'd by the international banking cartels.

Again, BTC when entrusted to anyone, and especially the likes of BitPay, is not Bitcoin.  It defeats the whole point.  I would (but don't) use BitPay in the same way I use the banking system; trust them with nothing I cannot afford to lose, trust them with no transactions that I don't want spied upon by corp/gov, minimize the amount I pay them in fees, interest, etc, and maximize the pain I make them  feel (making them file SARs and such.)

[clickerz]

If you want to get donations and funds from people around the world why use Bitpay for that?
Just make your BTC address available to the public and let everyone who wants to donate any amount of their preference in this wallet...

Indeed, why it seems like a big problem. They are stirring news just to agitate  people? HK Free Press can still accepts donations with bitcoin, with their btc address which they can control, not from exchanges address  or from any online wallet.They can always create and post their btc address for donation.