How using Tor Browser increases bitcoin theft?

[gentlemand]

If this was for the benefit of their users would it not be helpful to tell them why it's unsafe? One doomy sentence is not really enlightening enough.

It's been weird watching Localbitcoins slowly lose it. They have a super established brand that they're slowly strangling. If I were them I'd split into one operation that still does custodial stuff and another that advertises trades but nothing else.

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[Bountyhonter]

Tor browser doesn't increase Bitcoin theft, It's either you are using the wrong localbitcoin site or they are trying to stop their users from hiding their ip address.

[BITDV]

I believe that something connected to internet will increase any theft or illegal activity. But i believe with tor browser it self, and not suspect it if i download/using tor browser from real developer. But i will suspect if i download browser from not trusted website/developer. For example, download from fishy website, so i wont used it. Worry if those browser include with keyloger,or something malware placed by fishy developer.

[gentlemand]

Tor browser doesn't increase Bitcoin theft, It's either you are using the wrong localbitcoin site or they are trying to stop their users from hiding their ip address.

Is there not a possibility of man in the middle stuff by the exit node? I've only ever used Tor once and found it so slow I started to blub. Good job I'm not a paedophile or drug dealer as I'd have to quit those peccadilloes if my outlets had to use it.

[kryptqnick]

Any idea?



On Tuesday the Localbitcoins published a warning on its website. The notice dedicated to Tor users stated that the use of a Tor Browser exposed them to risks of Bitcoin theft. It is unknown whether the message was visible to only Tor users or others as well. The executives have not made any statements regarding the matter, and the reason behind it remains unknown.

READ MORE: https://www.cryptopolitan.com/tor-browser-increases-bitcoin-theft/

I don't know, it does not seem true to me. Critical bugs can be a problem, especially with such projects that are not on top (obviously, there's way more budget to develop Chrome than Tor, so the latter is potentially more vulnerable because of being underfinanced. However, I don't think this was the point in this message. I think it's more about Tor being associated with illegal activities or something, and the problems of downloading files while using Tor and becoming exposed because of that. Plus, there might be some hackers looking specifically for Tor browser users, because they are way more likely to have some Bitcoins than people who use Chrome. But overall, I think the issue is overstated and Tor does not really increase the risks of having the funds stolen...

[romero121]

There is a thinking among the people, using tor browser will keep them unknown to the world as the network through which the respective transaction is made will be unknown forever. Tor browsers were much preferred by users who involve into illegal and other complicated businesses. One who have used to common browsers will easily get fed, because what we experience is a much slower process and darknet is completely under surveillance by top level hackers. This in some way makes usage of tor browsers a high risk practice of transacting cryptocurrencies.

[pixie85]

Maybe what they're trying to say is that TOR users can take advantage of greater anonymity and try to scam you or steal from you physically when you agree to exchange with them? This doesn't mean that scammers aren't using other browsers.

 I agree that this is a stupid warning that will rather confuse new users and make them scared of using TOR but TOR is not the problem. The most important thing is to know how to keep your PC and your wallet safe.

[squatter]

If this was for the benefit of their users would it not be helpful to tell them why it's unsafe? One doomy sentence is not really enlightening enough.

It's pretty insulting. If anything, TOR users are safer on average because of NoScript, which protects against XSS attacks among other things.

It's been weird watching Localbitcoins slowly lose it. They have a super established brand that they're slowly strangling. If I were them I'd split into one operation that still does custodial stuff and another that advertises trades but nothing else.

Is that why they're so uptight -- because of the hosted wallet? I'd love it if there were a Craigslist style non-custodial trading site with LBC's amount of traffic. I could see it being tough to split their brand at this point, though.

[Oilacris]

This isn't true, how Tor do increases out bitcoin theft? LBC is just clearly or obviously doesn't like for its users to use up this browser.

[imstillthebest]

This isn't true,

thats what i also think about    .  i knew tor before and tor is i think pretty simillar to vpn which protects your identity or to make you more anonymous  . people use these kind of tools in order to become safe for tracking so how can one say that it increases theft/btc theft  ?  

tor is also the browser that can be used to dive on the deepweb/darkweb right ? browsing those sites are dangerous or risky , this could be the other reason why they think it risky to use tor because diving those said sites are full of hackers  and spy

[Oceat]

No one is safe and we know that, but now I'm curious to see what's happening and why localbitcoins are acusing tor browser, for me it's doens't make any sense, I can't find a reason that tor is riskier than another browsers 

Don't just believe what you saw on the internet because i believe ToR is not the reason why Bitcoin would get stolen.
I think it is just a misleading information they made to prove something from the government or localbitcoins doesn't like people who uses VPN.

[Kemarit]

On Tuesday the Localbitcoins published a warning on its website. The notice dedicated to Tor users stated that the use of a Tor Browser exposed them to risks of Bitcoin theft. It is unknown whether the message was visible to only Tor users or others as well.

it doesn't---no more than using firefox does.

i suspect localbitcoins is feeling very pressured by regulators (european commission, finnish government) regarding AML enforcement. i'm not sure if regulators are specifically telling them to clamp down on TOR (or VPN) usage, or if they are just trying to be proactive to please them. but this seems like an underhanded attempt to discourage IP address obfuscation techniques.

Perhaps the former, every law enforcement agency are putting pressure on crypto exchanges this year and those people behind are caving in that's why recently they require KYC.

So I'm not surprise by the announcement though, if they want to continue with their business I guess they're going to follow the same path as other trading platform today, obey or shut down.

[Artemis3]

Any idea?

On Tuesday the Localbitcoins published a warning on its website. The notice dedicated to Tor users stated that the use of a Tor Browser exposed them to risks of Bitcoin theft. It is unknown whether the message was visible to only Tor users or others as well. The executives have not made any statements regarding the matter, and the reason behind it remains unknown.

This is not true, except maybe from their point of view. One of the things Localbitcoins tells you is the country (ip) of the other party, of course if you use tor the ip is random, so you cannot tell. But that is stupid as anyone could be using a proxy or vpn to fake a country anyway...

Indeed this browser is merely Firefox with Tor bundled and some default settings changed.

And yes, the (silly) message is visible if you enter Localbitcoins from Tor (regardless of browser).

In 2019 the Tor project went with a very misleading image. Tor is Tor, their browser is their browser, they are separate, period. I do not agree with their revamped image. One thing does not mean the other, you can perfectly use Tor with any other browser, they will scare you of leaks, especially if you use something like Chrome which makes sense, but you can still use a secure browser that is not "The Tor Browser", via Tor. Get it?

The real Tor page is this one: http://2019.www.torproject.org/ notice the 2019 in front of the url.

Oh yes, it is possible to use Tor Browser without Tor, i won't tell you tho

[jseverson]

Is there not a possibility of man in the middle stuff by the exit node? I've only ever used Tor once and found it so slow I started to blub. Good job I'm not a paedophile or drug dealer as I'd have to quit those peccadilloes if my outlets had to use it.

It's possible, but since it comes with HTTPS Everywhere out of the box, I'd say it's a remote possibility. The possibility certainly isn't significant enough to conclude that Tor is inherently less safe than other popular browsers. Localbitcoins has been being increasingly hostile to anonymity for a while now, so such a move with no explanation is just them keeping up with that trend.

Maybe scammers do prefer to use Tor, like what has already been brought up, but it's not like using it yourself would leave you more vulnerable to them lol. Either way, it looks like using Tor isn't a ToS violation yet.

[DaveF]

1) I use tor a lot

2) There is and continues to be an issue with:
   a) Malicious exit nodes. Yes, many people choose to say, it's safe but anyone with enough time and money can sniff all traffic and do a really good MITM attack with it.
   b) And I think this is the bigger issue. People not setting stuff up properly and getting bitten by that.

3) As said before tor is different the the tor browser but explaining that to people is very difficult. Hell, the brave browser has a "connect with new private window & TOR" option.

I'm going out on a limb and saying this is LBC doing a cover their ass thing.

"Oh, look you connected using TOR, it's your fault, you don't get your BTC back. Next ticket"
It could be preemptive or it could be, they have seen a greater number of issues with TOR users and don't want to deal with it anymore.

-Dave

[Rajbir1994]

I didn't use this Tor browser anymore. So I don't have better idea about this one. If this one is good enough I will surely try for it.

[jseverson]

   b) And I think this is the bigger issue. People not setting stuff up properly and getting bitten by that.

Genuinely curious, what do you think the average person using Tor should set up to avoid getting attacked? Anyway, I agree with you that they're covering their ass, but more from regulatory pressure than anything else.

Indeed this browser is merely Firefox with Tor bundled and some default settings changed.

Missed this on my first post, but I thought I'd clarify: The Tor Browser is not just Firefox with settings changed. Tor is geared towards anonymity.

I didn't use this Tor browser anymore. So I don't have better idea about this one. If this one is good enough I will surely try for it.

I personally don't think it's ideal for regular browsing as it makes captchas hell and can be excruciatingly slow. Its primary use for anonymity, which some people might want for doing Bitcoin stuff.

[joelsamuya]

I find such a warning just bullshit probably just away of trying to make Tor browser less popular. LocalBitcoins just recently started to become strict on KYC so what i think they are trying to do is discourage people from using Tor so that their Online presence is easily traceable.
Some People lose bitcoins to scammers anyways so long as they are connected to the web and are so careless.
- "No one is safe"
- "No system is safe"

Without bothering to provide some good explanation for such a warning, it can misconstrued that LocalBitcoins made the act maybe just to please some regulators or to make the platform detached from possible problems they think they might encounter in the future relative to the TOR browser. What is clear here is that many platforms are now starting to aligned with authorities so they can continue doing business with ease as we know that fighting can mean financial bleeding.

[squatter]

   b) And I think this is the bigger issue. People not setting stuff up properly and getting bitten by that.

Genuinely curious, what do you think the average person using Tor should set up to avoid getting attacked? Anyway, I agree with you that they're covering their ass, but more from regulatory pressure than anything else.

Malicious exit nodes mounting MITM attacks is a vector I hadn't considered before. I had been thinking of them mainly as surveillance adversaries. I'm not actually sure this is a legitimate concern, though. It seems like attackers could do more effective analysis on regular clearnet usage to mount more effective generalized attacks on a bigger population.

Maybe DaveF could elaborate on how targeted routing analysis would make such attacks more likely. My initial reaction is that users running NoScript and/or disabling JS should be much better protected against MITM attacks than average web users too, so that's another reason why average TOR browser users should be safer.

[dimastegar]

I have never opened the Tor browser to login or just trade. Because I am a person who is very careful with passwords and privacy. In essence, I am very careful with gaps that can make me lose.