$2 Billion Lost in Mt. Gox Bitcoin Hack Can Be Recovered, Lawyer Claims

[elsniper]

Moscow-based law firm ZP Legal claims to have identified Russian nationals who received bitcoin stolen in the 2014 hack of Mt Gox. Local law enforcement is investigating Alexander Vinnik, the alleged operator of the defunct exchange BTC-e. ZP Legal says Mt Gox creditors who come forward as potential BTC-e victims may help Russian authorities establish a connection between the exchanges. To cut a deal with law enforcement, those who benefited from the Mt Gox hack might offer to return funds to the exchange’s creditors, the law firm reckons.

https://www.coindesk.com/2-billion-lost-in-mt-gox-bitcoin-hack-can-be-recovered-lawyer-claims

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[serjent05]

It would be nice if what the lawyer claims is true and can be done.  The thing is, lawyers tends to say things to console the victims for the sake of getting paid for their services.  It had been several years passed and yet, the lost Bitcoin had not been recovered.  Even if they pinpoint who the receivers are, it is quite impossible to get 100% of the lost funds of MT. Gox because they could had been sold already.  Another thing is the accuracy of finding involved people.   It is easier said than done IMHO.

[squatter]

ZP Legal estimated 170,000 to 200,000 of these coins, currently worth $1.7 billion to $2 billion, can be recovered by taking legal action against Russian nationals who received the stolen money.

In return for its assistance, the law firm will charge creditors 50 to 75 percent of the recovered sum, as well as an hourly rate. However, ZP Legal says it will only accept payment in the event of a successful recovery.

According to a document shared by Pag,  ZP Legal told Mt Gox creditors that through a “close cooperation with law enforcement” it believed it could recover “up to 170,000 – 200,000 BTC.”

At the same time, the firm admitted it doesn’t know the identities of all people involved in the theft — it will be up to law enforcement to find the culprits. Speaking to CoinDesk, Zheleznikov said the amount is an estimate based on the number of creditors ZP hopes to take on as clients.

This sounds extremely dubious. From everything the firm is saying, all of this hinges on a future law enforcement investigation, with the involvement of multiple agencies across borders.

And in the unlikely event of recovery, they'll pocket 3/4 of your bitcoins.

[kryptqnick]

It's good to have hope, but I don't think it's likely that people will receive their funds back... Making Russian Federation take action against people who received stolen something that is not even considered money is highly improbable, especially because of the law system that does not rely on precedents but rather on the current laws to solve cases (+ corruption, of course). Not to mention what the legal firm wants in return, which is going to leave the users with way less money they lost:

In return for its assistance, the law firm will charge creditors 50 to 75 percent of the recovered sum, as well as an hourly rate. However, ZP Legal says it will only accept payment in the event of a successful recovery.

I think this will end with nothing, because it seems that it's up to Japan to decide what to do anyway.

[fiulpro]

It is good to hope but to consider that the person who stole them still have them is hilarious .
Generally they don't even wait for some time to sell everything .. or maybe they could have changed it something else ..
Even if it could be traced it would take a while and in that while who knows if the money will still be with the person .
This is actually very weird therefore no one really knows if that's possible.

[figmentofmyass]

When we think that the hack happened in 2014, it seems like there is no possibility for recovering the stolen money.

the hack actually occurred in 2011 and the theft ended around 2013 so it's even worse then that. we're taking about BTC that was worth a small fraction of the current price. and it was probably all liquidated on BTC-E (likely through BTC-E codes and local exchangers) with no KYC records 5+ years ago.

even if they could find some of the original culprits, the money is long gone and it definitely didn't amount to $2 billion at the time.

so it's a hail mary. the law firm is probably doing this just to get exposure and make a name for themselves.

[pixie85]

How are they going to get back the money from people who profited? If Vinnik was selling everything through his exchange he only got maybe 10% of what the coins are worth now so he doesn't have the money to cover everything. You also can't ask people who bought coins on BTC-e to give it back even if you trace them.

Hello 5 years ago you bought some bitcoins on exchange and we want them back?
I don't have it! I sold in 2015 for 500 dollars!

[amyshek1979]

This Mt Gox's topic is becomming annoying. Relax, guys, none will refund you the money.

[elsniper]

This Mt Gox's topic is becomming annoying. Relax, guys, none will refund you the money.

Why won't they refund?

[Oceat]

This Mt Gox's topic is becomming annoying. Relax, guys, none will refund you the money.

Why won't they refund?

Because none of it has been proven yet that they can actually return the funds and even if they managed to return the funds they will going to take 50 to 75 percent of the recovered Bitcoin.

So, how do you like their claim? Isn't it cringey to feel that they want to take half of your Bitcoin if returned?

[TimeTeller]

This Mt Gox's topic is becomming annoying. Relax, guys, none will refund you the money.

Why won't they refund?

Because none of it has been proven yet that they can actually return the funds and even if they managed to return the funds they will going to take 50 to 75 percent of the recovered Bitcoin.

So, how do you like their claim? Isn't it cringey to feel that they want to take half of your Bitcoin if returned?

The article is a good consolation to those who are still hoping that someday they will get their money back.
But we need a reality check here. Can they actually get the funds back or are they only giving positive hope to those people involved?

[dimastegar]

How do they cover the lost Bitcoin? Of course it will be very difficult imho. I think they made the problem too easy. And again, 2 million dollars isn't a little money. So I'm not sure they can cover that.

[bL4nkcode]

I would partially believe if they will mention that they make the refund in $ equivalent in lost BTC. But if they will push people to believe that they will recover the lost BTC to make a refund? Nah, enough for this, its impossible.

But if they get refunded but

Isn't it cringey to feel that they want to take half of your Bitcoin if returned?

Must be better than nothing, but if it's me, ofc I want 60-70% of my lost funds will be refunded.

[samcrypto]

When we think that the hack happened in 2014, it seems like there is no possibility for recovering the stolen money. If the lawyer is really serious about this claim, then it is very good news.

That lawyer must be good in technology or else, its just a dream for everyone. We know that its hard to recover money if there’s no identity at all, but if the lawyer is serious about this claim then the market will celebrate for sure and it can boost the trust on cryptocurrency. Hacked bitcoin is still unrecoverable, stay safe and protect your keys always.

[bryant.coleman]

It is known to everyone that the funds stolen from Mt Gox were laundered using BTC-e between 2011 and 2013. By the time the theft was identified in 2014, the hackers were no longer actively stealing the coins from Mt Gox. The identity of the hackers is still in doubt. The FBI claims that Vinnik was involved, but as far as I know he was the owner of BTC-e and he wasn't directly involved in the robbery.

Now the issue is that during 2011-13, the exchange rate was around $4 per coin and most of the stolen BTC was sold in BTC-e at this exchange rate. Even if the hackers managed to sell all of the BTC650,000, they would have received no more than $3 million. Now I am not sure whether they have any coins remaining in their wallets (which will be a foolish step, as the stolen coins can be traced).

[Darker45]

I would partially believe if they will mention that they make the refund in $ equivalent in lost BTC. But if they will push people to believe that they will recover the lost BTC to make a refund? Nah, enough for this, its impossible.

The article has this

Zheleznikov stressed that his clients can expect to receive not bitcoins themselves but their fiat value now.

According to Mt Gox creditors, ZP Legal contacted them earlier this year, offering an opportunity to recover almost a quarter of the missing 850,000 bitcoins stolen in the 2014 hack of the exchange. (The coins were worth more than $450 million at the time of the theft and $8.5 billion today.)

If they could successfully recover a quarter of the stolen BTC, they could still make a refund which is a lot higher in value than when the theft happened. BTC owners would still gain. They're like forced to HODL because of the theft. A quarter of $8.5 billion is $2.125 billion. That's way larger than the $450 million value during the theft. However,

In return for its assistance, the law firm will charge creditors 50 to 75 percent of the recovered sum, as well as an hourly rate.

I mean, seriously? LOL! That's way too high a price! This law firm is seemingly trying to sell their capacity to contribute something to possibly help solve a crime. Too overpriced! They're making it a hostage! 

[xvids]

It would be nice if what the lawyer claims is true and can be done.  The thing is, lawyers tends to say things to console the victims for the sake of getting paid for their services.  It had been several years passed and yet, the lost Bitcoin had not been recovered.  Even if they pinpoint who the receivers are, it is quite impossible to get 100% of the lost funds of MT. Gox because they could had been sold already.  Another thing is the accuracy of finding involved people.   It is easier said than done IMHO.

Well all of the people who have been in crypto for years would provably know that this isn't really going to happen.
They are just giving a false hope for the victims Bitcoin transaction can't be reversed or unless the incident is actually an inside job,
And they would return the crypto back.

[justagox]

I am glad there is some interest and discussion on this topic.
There are talks with other law firms and the trustee is aware of the news.
I posted seeking help about this issue

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5179121
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5179372

Creditors are looking for second opinions, anyone with knowledge about Russian laws, or anyone who wants to assist to help us figure this out!

Current deadline to apply is Sept 22 with ZP. Creditors meeting with trustee is Oct 1st.
ZP refuses to push back deadline to be after the creditors meeting because, reasons?
Supposedly, according to them, people are already in custody in Russia regarding this. who?

[justagox]

https://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-trustee-asked-doj-to-share-info-on-jailed-btc-e-owner-alexander-vinnik

[timerland]

This sounds a lot easier then it actually is, they know very little information about those hackers, and if they do decide to persue this, it'll take a lot of manpower, co-operation between countries, and probably a lot of money for them to recover funds that they will 99 percent end up pocketing...

This is just an attempt for the law firm to get a lot of money, publicity, and then the governments want a cut of the pie, no actual people will benefit from this, which is definitely quite sad considering how much money was lost during the hack.

I'm grateful for the bump, I've actually never seen the article or this thread before.